What is Sin?

[Fool]

Secular thought on morality is generally based on negative consequences to self or others where as religious thought on sin is generally based on whether it's offensive to god. Not everyone agrees on what is sinful but sin is a religious thing, generally Christian since even religions like Buddhism don't have "sin".

the secular and religious do not have to be diametrically opposed.


sin is considered negative, or bad behavior. even buddhism has ideas on bad behavior.

you're fixated on a word, a form, at the expense of the idea. ideas and actions aren't exclusive to a belief system.

and no, sin in the religious sense is against a brother, sister, neighbor and in so doing it is still a sin against god. if there is this God that is omnipresent, then God is omnipresent in the brother, the sister, neighbor foremost and not secondary, or elsewhere.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

What is a transgession?

Sin, transgression, evil, is when we violate the equal rights of all to life, liberty, property and self-defense through force or fraud. The source of all evil is not money, power, sex, fame etc.--they can all be handled honorably. The source is a moral/legal double standard.

 

[Fool]

Sin, transgression, evil, is when we violate the equal rights of all to life, liberty, property and self-defense through force or fraud. The source of all evil is not money, power, sex, fame etc.--they can all be handled honorably. The source is a moral/legal double standard.

you can't profit from what you can't control. he who controls the image of the beast controls the spice of life.


The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,


And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

A sin is an act that's bad enough - in the eyes of your neighbour - that he assumes his god must think it's wrong, too.

Sin lets your neighbour judge you while pretending not to judge you ("It's God who thinks what you're doing is wrong, not me").

 

[Shadow Wolf]

you don't believe the prisons and jails are full of people who might have committed egregious errors??

That has nothing to do with this concept of sin.
And, I don't believe, but I know that in America jails and prisons are flooded with petty drug offenders who really did nothing wrong other than possessing the drug (most often pot).

 

[Fool]

That has nothing to do with this concept of sin.
And, I don't believe, but I know that in America jails and prisons are flooded with petty drug offenders who really did nothing wrong other than possessing the drug (most often pot).

if you use the word sin to convey the idea of negative behavior against another, then yes it does.

the word is a vehicle that conveys an idea. that is why words have synonyms.

if i had used the word trangression, crime, error, fault, it would still apply and be relevant.


do you have an attachment to form?

does the word necessarily dictate the action; example does the idiom two peas in a pod actually convey the idea of two literal peas in a pea pod? or does it convey some idea of two things have some similarity of relationship between two things as one??

 

[Shadow Wolf]

if you use the word sin to convey the idea of negative behavior against another, then yes it does.

the word is a vehicle that conveys an idea. that is why words have synonyms.

if i had used the word trangression, crime, error, fault, it would still apply and be relevant.


do you have an attachment to form?

does the word necessarily dictate the action; example does the idiom two peas in a pod actually convey the idea of two literal peas in a pea pod? or does it convey some idea of two things have some similarity of relationship between two things as one??
http:// http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/sin?s=t

I am aware of synonyms. However, sin is of a religious context that implies shame and guilt, typically for things you just shouldn't feel guilty or ashamed about. The law, especially in secular nations, is not religious based so it is more accurate to say someone broke the law rather than sin, and when someone is ill-behaved it's better to be abit more specific than saying sin, which may not even actually cover their poor behavior.

 

[Fool]

I am aware of synonyms. However, sin is of a religious context that implies shame and guilt, typically for things you just shouldn't feel guilty or ashamed about. The law, especially in secular nations, is not religious based so it is more accurate to say someone broke the law rather than sin, and when someone is ill-behaved it's better to be abit more specific than saying sin, which may not even actually cover their poor behavior.

people can feel guilty and ashamed about all kinds of things. that doesn't make it a sin. that is what this thread is about. love is nothing to be ashamed of.


nope, it isn't used exclusively by theists to convey an action towards another called god. yes it can be against something called god. i'm not conveying a god apart from self because God is omnipresent in both the atheist and the theist

sin is opposed to love

he who says he hates his brother whom he can see cannot love God whom he cannot see. because god is omnipresent in a brother, a sister, an atheist, a theist.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

nope, it isn't used exclusively by theist to convey an action towards another called god. yes it can be against something called god. i'm not conveying a god apart from self because God is omnipresent in both the atheist and the theist

sin

Yes, I am aware. However, we won't be shedding this ancient and absurd concept if we keep using it to describe things it doesn't actually describe.

 

[Fool]

Yes, I am aware. However, we won't be shedding this ancient and absurd concept if we keep using it to describe things it doesn't actually describe.

shedding a word won't correct the problem. love covers all sins. because love does no wrong; which is what sin is. wrong thought, wrong action, et al.


But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.


love is two bodies being of ONE mind, friend.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

shedding a word won't correct the problem.

How can someone be "sinner" if we don't use the word anymore. Yes, it has synonyms, it used often in generalized secular way (such as how many say "god" as a term of anger), it even has metaphoric and poetic uses. But the word has outlived its time.

 

[Auggxv]

What is a transgession?

This point in time.

 

[Fool]

How can someone be "sinner" if we don't use the word anymore. Yes, it has synonyms, it used often in generalized secular way (such as how many say "god" as a term of anger), it even has metaphoric and poetic uses. But the word has outlived its time.

and along will come another word that someone will assign a personal value to. words can only harm you if they are believable and someone can define/control someone.

like being a fagg0t. being gay doesn't make you a horrible person. being a hater because you can't define/control another is a problem; when it doesn't negatively impact anyone. there is no sin in love

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

unfortunately ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

But we DO make allowances for those mentally or physically unable to understand what they did. Note that Adam, Eve, and Cain are never punished with anything major -- they didn't know what they did was wrong, thus they didn't sin.

At any rate, here's how I describe "sin": Any thought or action (or lack thereof) that intentionally and willfully causes harm (defined as removal of health or rights for no objective purpose) of any sentient being (organic or artificial, whenever that becomes a thing).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

being a hater because you can't control define/control another is a problem; when it doesn't negatively impact anyone.

That is pretty much what this entire "sin" thing is. Very ancient men gained control by creating this notion of sin, and sealed their power by saying it's not their idea, but rather it is the law of god himself. I don't think it is a coincidence that women in general and male/male sexual relations are especially singled out, but, allegedly, according to those who wrote of this "sin," it's not because they find a menstruating woman disgusting enough that she has to go away until her bleeding stops or find male/male sex an abomination but rather it is god that thinks these things. But it makes no sense, especially in regards to menstruation, because if god did create the universe and all life he also did make menstruation a necessity for reproduction, but the entire point becomes illogical when we consider this is necessary and also that according to god pretty much everything a woman touches while she's on her period becomes as unclean as she is.

 

[Fool]

That is pretty much what this entire "sin" thing is. Very ancient men gained control by creating this notion of sin, and sealed their power by saying it's not their idea, but rather it is the law of god himself. I don't think it is a coincidence that women in general and male/male sexual relations are especially singled out, but, allegedly, according to those who wrote of this "sin," it's not because they find a menstruating woman disgusting enough that she has to go away until her bleeding stops or find male/male sex an abomination but rather it is god that thinks these things. But it makes no sense, especially in regards to menstruation, because if god did create the universe and all life he also did make menstruation a necessity for reproduction, but the entire point becomes illogical when we consider this is necessary and also that according to god pretty much everything a woman touches while she's on her period becomes as unclean as she is.

what others do with a word is personal, i agree. but that isn't a word problem. it's a people problem. and people who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. the actors change. the actions don't. the action of Love today is the same action of Love of a 5000 yrs ago. it isn't the same word, language.

the more things change the more they remain the same.

 

[Fool]

But we DO make allowances for those mentally or physically unable to understand what they did. Note that Adam, Eve, and Cain are never punished with anything major -- they didn't know what they did was wrong, thus they didn't sin.

At any rate, here's how I describe "sin": Any thought or action (or lack thereof) that intentionally and willfully causes harm (defined as removal of health or rights for no objective purpose) of any sentient being (organic or artificial, whenever that becomes a thing).

thank you for the reminder.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

the action of Love today is the same action of Love of a 5000 yrs ago.

If you are referring to sex, you would be correct. But if you mean our concept of romantic love for a relationship, that is incorrect because it is a very new concept. If you mean love in general, you are again incorrect as many cultures, such as the Greeks, had far more than just one word and concept and idea for love. The Greeks recognized multiple forms of what we today call "love," but they were more precise and divided this love into words that were more suitable for the situation, such as the love of family, the love of friends, love of humanity, and sexual desires.

 

[David T]

False equivalency.

2+2=5 is true in some universe according to string theory.

 

[David T]

"Sin" is nothing more than an ancient concept created by men who gained control by telling people to be ashamed of themselves, that they are a disgrace, and that only they have the wway to make things better.

Like an ancient version of scientism? I might have to agree on that!!