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What is the Alt-Right?

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Problem....
One of the reasons I've heard lefties give that Bannon is a white supremacist is the
Breitbart connection....& Breitbart is white supremacist because of the Bannon connection.
Is there something more substantial than this?
You are missing my point, and to be honest I suspect you are missing it on purpose. Steve Bannon thinks it is a good thing to give a public platform to white nationalists. That is sufficient in and of itself to say that Steven Bannon is sympathetic to white nationalists.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
You are missing my point, and to be honest I suspect you are missing it on purpose.
Well, you suspect wrongly.
I've got no horse in this race, since I don't identify with the alt right or any other right.
I'm just not seeing evidence or cogency for claims yet.
If indeed the alt right is about white supremacy, the so be it.
Steve Bannon thinks it is a good thing to give a public platform to white nationalists. That is sufficient in and of itself to say that Steven Bannon is sympathetic to white nationalists.
Checking Snopes, I find no evidence of the claim.
Whatever Bannon is, & whatever his new position portends in the Trump admin, I can neither say nor affect. I'm just fascinated by the extreme claims made, & the lack of support for them.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Well, you suspect wrongly.
I've got no horse in this race, since I don't identify with the alt right or any other right.
I'm just not seeing evidence or cogency for claims yet.
If indeed the alt right is about white supremacy, the so be it.

Checking Snopes, I find no evidence of the claim.
Whatever Bannon is, & whatever his new position portends in the Trump admin, I can neither say nor affect. I'm just fascinated by the extreme claims made, & the lack of support for them.
What exactly is it that I am claiming that you reject? Do you accept that Bannon said that Breitbart was a platform for the alt-right?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
What exactly is it that I am claiming that you reject?
That's the wrong question.
Rather than "rejecting", think of just "not accepting".
Do you accept that Bannon said that Breitbart was a platform for the alt-right?
I've been dealing with the issue as a hypothetical, but I don't know if he ever said this.
I've done some searching on the internet, & found this claim repeated, but no direct quotes.
Have anything?
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
That's the wrong question.
Rather than "rejecting", think of just "not accepting".

I've been dealing with the issue as a hypothetical, but I don't know if he ever said this.
I've done some searching on the internet, & found this claim repeated, but no direct quotes.
Have anything?
7 Steve Bannon Quotes On Race That Are Seriously Concerning
He Doesn't Mind Hosting The Alt-Right

Bannon has said on multiple occasions that his website, Breitbart News (you can air-quote that if you'd like) was the platform of the alt-right, which is made up of white supremacists, nationalists, Islamaphobics, anti-semites, and all the trolls that harass females on social media. But Bannon thinks everyone is being too hard on them, according to Mother Jones:
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Here's the deal as far as I'm concerned:

I don't know much about the "alt right." However, from the get go, fantome, I see an issue with objectivity because as I stated earlier, just because a fringe group (you quoted "The Daily Stormer" which is definitely a fringe group) self identifies as part of a group, doesn't mean that the group itself is an embodiment of the fringe group's ideology. After all, radical Islamist terrorists self identify as Muslim - are they representative of the majority of Muslims? Westboro Baptists self identify as Baptists and Christians - are they representative of the majority of Baptists/Christians?

Secondly, I'll use a quote from your source: "Richard Spencer, publisher of AlternativeRight.com, describes the Alt-Right as essentially “trying to build a philosophy, an ideology around identity, European identity.”

The issue I have with this quote supposedly being representative of racist ideology, is that apparently it's OK for ideologies and movements and groups - seen as legitimate and good and even necessary - to be built around, for instance, African identity, or Hispanic identity, or Asian identity, or (fill in the blank). But it's racist if the ideology is built around European identity? I see a lot of inconsistency in that stance.

For instance, I am overwhelmingly northern European genetically (98 percent according to my DNA test - which was frankly a surprise to me because our family tree and family lore is full of Indian princesses and Jewish refugees). And believe it or not, even before I knew I was the whitest person I had ever met, I was very, very interested in and drawn to all things Northern European, especially from the British Isles. I love British and Scottish history and culture. In fact, I celebrate it. It resonates deep within the core of my being. It's all I can do to keep from scaring my neighbors by celebrating Guy Fawkes Day! Our family holidays are full of Northern European influences, on purpose - from a Yule log to poppers at each place setting. While I enjoy experiencing holidays and seasons and occasions from other cultures, I am not drawn to those cultures and am not particularly interested in incorporating those other traditions into my own personal life, other than as a courtesy to those of other ethnicities (in my case Hispanic or African American or Asian due to intermarriage in our family as well as living in Texas where non Hispanic white folks are the minority). For instance, last year we had a Panamanian Thanksgiving meal, which was great fun, and I enjoyed it, but I have no real interest in incorporating those traditions into future holidays. Of course, I would do so if my grandchildren, who are part Panamanian, wanted to - and I'd enjoy it, but frankly, I prefer my own northern European traditions. A few years ago we hosted an authentic Korean meal - oddly enough, we have several Korean family members (none of whom are directly related to each other by blood - it's an unexpected but fun aspect of our family). We had a lot of fun, and I hope we do it again some day because the food was delicious, but it didn't "speak to my soul."

In other words, while I enjoy experiencing other cultures, frankly I don't prefer them over my own personal cultural heritage (southern US and Northern European). If the truth be known, I prefer my own cultural traditions and values and norms. In fact, I love them. I want to see them carried on and passed down. I enjoy studying the history of my ancestors and passing on their traditions.

And I don't see how that's any different from a Hispanic person embracing their own family's history and traditions, or an African American person doing the same, etc, You get the picture. Is there something wrong with that?

I think we're seeing a push back by some people of European ancestry - who don't identify with "white guilt," and who are tired of their own culture and ancestry being categorized by some as offensive, or somehow shameful, or oppressive today somehow, or somehow racist simply because of genetics.

We are all human. Not a one of us has an ancestry devoid of less than honorable people, or devoid of people who may have been oppressive or racist or misled or violent or ignorant or (fill in the blank). But each and every one of us has an ancestry that is also filled with interesting and evocative people, places, things, and traditions. What's racist about embracing the good in our personal ancestry and its traditions?

Now - to clarify - I do not know much about the "alt right" movement and do not consider myself to be aligned with it. But I guess my question is this - why does this particular movement or ideology evoke such outrage among liberals when groups based on identifying with other ethnicities - groups which often disparage or denounce folks of European ancestry and those traditions - get a pass on the racist smack talk? I guess I just don't get the inconsistency.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Is it only OK to embrace, protect, and celebrate your culture and traditions if you're not a white Anglo Saxon?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Is it only OK to embrace, protect, and celebrate your culture and traditions if you're not a white Anglo Saxon?
Yes, this is true.
But in these days of changing definitions, "race" is now broadened to things like religion (eg, Jewish) & nationality (eg, Mexican).
So I'm embracing the heritage of my race, ie, atheist.
The only problem is that we don't have any traditions, so I have to invent my own or steal others'.
Happy Festivus!
(I know it's early, but I'm beating the crowds at all the aluminum pole stores.)

Edit:
I'm considering getting back to my roots by making artisanal yacht polish.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Yes, this is true.
But in these days of changing definitions, "race" is now broadened to things like religion (eg, Jewish) & nationality (eg, Mexican).
So I'm embracing the heritage of my race, ie, atheist.
The only problem is that we don't have any traditions, so I have to invent my own or steal others'.
Happy Festivus!
(I know it's early, but I'm beating the crowds at all the aluminum pole stores.)

Edit:
I'm considering getting back to my roots by making artisanal yacht polish.

Happy Festivus to you as well! And I'm sure if I had a yacht I could appreciate your fine polish, and perhaps even buy some - unless the proceeds were going to some sort of organization that disparaged Norsemen or their descendants.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Happy Festivus to you as well! And I'm sure if I had a yacht I could appreciate your fine polish, and perhaps even buy some - unless the proceeds were going to some sort of organization that disparaged Norsemen or their descendants.
All proceeds from new & improved Revoltigold Yacht Polish (now made from endangered
sturgeon caviar & real liberal tears) are spent on bacon & beer (in that order).
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
That's the wrong question.
Rather than "rejecting", think of just "not accepting".

I've been dealing with the issue as a hypothetical, but I don't know if he ever said this.
I've done some searching on the internet, & found this claim repeated, but no direct quotes.
Have anything?
Bannon is a Brietbart representative, why do you need more than that.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Bannon is a Brietbart representative, why do you need more than that.
I don't.
But then, I'm not the one making claims about Breitbart being a white supremacist site.
The connection you just stated doesn't even remotely prove the claim.
Do you read articles on Breitbart?
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Some people have nothing better to do than defend racism, bigotry, homophobia, misogyny and hatred.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
All proceeds from new & improved Revoltigold Yacht Polish (now made from endangered
sturgeon caviar & real liberal tears) are spent on bacon & beer (in that order).

Wait a minute - is the Polish polish? I mean, is the polish Polish?
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Some people have nothing better to do than defend racism, bigotry, homophobia, misogyny and hatred.

And some people have nothing better to do than be passive aggressive.

Are you talking about anyone in particular on this thread? If so, speak clearly. I will - if you mean that some people on this thread are defending racism, bigotry, homophobia, misogyny, and hatred, then I think your comment is passive aggressive. If you're just speaking about the public in general, I guess you're probably right - I'm sure that somewhere out there, there are some idiots who have nothing better to do than defend such attitudes.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Here's the deal as far as I'm concerned:

I don't know much about the "alt right." However, from the get go, fantome, I see an issue with objectivity because as I stated earlier, just because a fringe group (you quoted "The Daily Stormer" which is definitely a fringe group) self identifies as part of a group, doesn't mean that the group itself is an embodiment of the fringe group's ideology. After all, radical Islamist terrorists self identify as Muslim - are they representative of the majority of Muslims? Westboro Baptists self identify as Baptists and Christians - are they representative of the majority of Baptists/Christians?

Secondly, I'll use a quote from your source: "Richard Spencer, publisher of AlternativeRight.com, describes the Alt-Right as essentially “trying to build a philosophy, an ideology around identity, European identity.”

The issue I have with this quote supposedly being representative of racist ideology, is that apparently it's OK for ideologies and movements and groups - seen as legitimate and good and even necessary - to be built around, for instance, African identity, or Hispanic identity, or Asian identity, or (fill in the blank). But it's racist if the ideology is built around European identity? I see a lot of inconsistency in that stance.

For instance, I am overwhelmingly northern European genetically (98 percent according to my DNA test - which was frankly a surprise to me because our family tree and family lore is full of Indian princesses and Jewish refugees). And believe it or not, even before I knew I was the whitest person I had ever met, I was very, very interested in and drawn to all things Northern European, especially from the British Isles. I love British and Scottish history and culture. In fact, I celebrate it. It resonates deep within the core of my being. It's all I can do to keep from scaring my neighbors by celebrating Guy Fawkes Day! Our family holidays are full of Northern European influences, on purpose - from a Yule log to poppers at each place setting. While I enjoy experiencing holidays and seasons and occasions from other cultures, I am not drawn to those cultures and am not particularly interested in incorporating those other traditions into my own personal life, other than as a courtesy to those of other ethnicities (in my case Hispanic or African American or Asian due to intermarriage in our family as well as living in Texas where non Hispanic white folks are the minority). For instance, last year we had a Panamanian Thanksgiving meal, which was great fun, and I enjoyed it, but I have no real interest in incorporating those traditions into future holidays. Of course, I would do so if my grandchildren, who are part Panamanian, wanted to - and I'd enjoy it, but frankly, I prefer my own northern European traditions. A few years ago we hosted an authentic Korean meal - oddly enough, we have several Korean family members (none of whom are directly related to each other by blood - it's an unexpected but fun aspect of our family). We had a lot of fun, and I hope we do it again some day because the food was delicious, but it didn't "speak to my soul."

In other words, while I enjoy experiencing other cultures, frankly I don't prefer them over my own personal cultural heritage (southern US and Northern European). If the truth be known, I prefer my own cultural traditions and values and norms. In fact, I love them. I want to see them carried on and passed down. I enjoy studying the history of my ancestors and passing on their traditions.

And I don't see how that's any different from a Hispanic person embracing their own family's history and traditions, or an African American person doing the same, etc, You get the picture. Is there something wrong with that?

I think we're seeing a push back by some people of European ancestry - who don't identify with "white guilt," and who are tired of their own culture and ancestry being categorized by some as offensive, or somehow shameful, or oppressive today somehow, or somehow racist simply because of genetics.

We are all human. Not a one of us has an ancestry devoid of less than honorable people, or devoid of people who may have been oppressive or racist or misled or violent or ignorant or (fill in the blank). But each and every one of us has an ancestry that is also filled with interesting and evocative people, places, things, and traditions. What's racist about embracing the good in our personal ancestry and its traditions?

Now - to clarify - I do not know much about the "alt right" movement and do not consider myself to be aligned with it. But I guess my question is this - why does this particular movement or ideology evoke such outrage among liberals when groups based on identifying with other ethnicities - groups which often disparage or denounce folks of European ancestry and those traditions - get a pass on the racist smack talk? I guess I just don't get the inconsistency.
There is a difference between celebrating a culture and trying to oppress others. White nationalism is by definition a group that wants whites to have greater privileges and rights than non-rights. This is not at all the same thing as enjoying Oktoberfest, or a Yule log.

I knew you were going to object to my using the stormer as a source. Stormer is a fringe group. But the alt-right is also a fringe group. The alt-right has its origins in White nationalism, I can't show you where the alt-right comes from without using white nationalist sources because it came from white nationalist sources.
 
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