What is the best argument against psychedelics?

[Alceste]

I am making an assumption based on comments said here, and implied research. It is a safe assumption to say those who hallucinate find these mind altering effects "real"

I'm trying to tell you you're incorrect: it is quite obvious the hallucinations are not "real". They may be profound, affecting and awe-inspiring despite their obvious lack of reality. This dualistic Cartesian obsession with truth and falsehood is one of the first casualties of entheogen-induced religious experience.

 

[Sententia]

Lots of obligatory, scripted social interactions with people who are not on mushrooms is the absolute last possible thing that anybody who is on mushrooms would ever desire.

No, they're not. I don't know anybody who even attempts to spend as much time tripping as your average World of Warcraft addict. I don't know if it's even physiologically possible. When you're done, you're done. That seems do be a fairly universal phenomenon.

I disagree on both points. I miss my twenties.

 

[Alceste]

I disagree on both points. I miss my twenties.

LOL. Well, to each his own. I couldn't possibly wait tables in that kind of a state. I can't even keep track of how many fingers I have or how long they are. Nevermind the fact that half my customers would look like hobbits and I'd find it too hilarious to get a sentence out.

 

[Vendetta]

I'm trying to tell you you're incorrect: it is quite obvious the hallucinations are not "real". They may be profound, affecting and awe-inspiring despite their obvious lack of reality. This dualistic Cartesian obsession with truth and falsehood is one of the first casualties of entheogen-induced religious experience.

Interesting I guess Id have to relate your comments back to some of the subjects I've studied who claimed to have seen musical notes flying in the room. I guess all my studies I didn't realize id be outdone on a forum much less an advocate (and possible user) of psychedelics lol

 

[The Wizard]

LOL. Well, to each his own. I couldn't possibly wait tables in that kind of a state. I can't even keep track of how many fingers I have or how long they are. Nevermind the fact that half my customers would look like hobbits and I'd find it too hilarious to get a sentence out.

In my youth I knew a guy fairly well that went to a party and after a couple days we talked and he was not even the same person. Nothing about him was the same type of personality or guy. He told me that he woke up after an all night long LSD trip and he was not the same after that- that he felt like he was a different person.

So, do psychedelics change someone's personality? It is just another question I occasionally wonder about. Not a loaded question whatsoever... IMO.

What would cause that?

 

[Vendetta]

The Wizard not to butt in your question towards Alcaste but there was a logitudinal study (study done over periods of time) of several participants who listened to classical music and took LSD. Every two years upon reporting their experiences some say that, the experience was the next best thing to the birth of their child. Some have changed.some bad habits. I'm sure music has some affect on the mind when its altered but I haven't seen any recent replications.

 

[The Wizard]

The Wizard not to butt in your question towards Alcaste but there was a logitudinal study (study done over periods of time) of several participants who listened to classical music and took LSD. Every two years upon reporting their experiences some say that, the experience was the next best thing to the birth of their child. Some have changed.some bad habits. I'm sure music has some affect on the mind when its altered but I haven't seen any recent replications.

No, no, there is no butting in that I consider whatsoever. It was a general curiousity for anyone to respond about the affects on identity or personality. Just wondering if it would be due to some sort of drastic change in views and perception of the world and life or something else (i.e. chemical/biological). Maybe all perhaps...IMO.

 

[Vendetta]

No, no, there is no butting in that I consider whatsoever. It was a general curiousity for anyone to respond about the affects on identity or personality. Just wondering if it would be due to some sort of drastic change in views and perception of the world and life or something else (i.e. chemical/biological). Maybe all perhaps...IMO.

Ah gotcha.....as far as I know there is no permanent chemical and/or biological change in certain psychedelics that I am aware of. I do know in a lot of cases under fMRI's certain brain areas light up and certain neurons are produced more when a drug is ingested.

 

[blackout]

In my youth I knew a guy fairly well that went to a party and after a couple days we talked and he was not even the same person. Nothing about him was the same type of personality or guy. He told me that he woke up after an all night long LSD trip and he was not the same after that- that he felt like he was a different person.

So, do psychedelics change someone's personality? It is just another question I occasionally wonder about. Not a loaded question whatsoever... IMO.

What would cause that?

They MAGNIFY your personality.

Perhaps sometimes they even reveal your deeper person to your own Self.
This of course will leave you (comparitively) "changed".

 

[Alceste]

In my youth I knew a guy fairly well that went to a party and after a couple days we talked and he was not even the same person. Nothing about him was the same type of personality or guy. He told me that he woke up after an all night long LSD trip and he was not the same after that- that he felt like he was a different person.

So, do psychedelics change someone's personality? It is just another question I occasionally wonder about. Not a loaded question whatsoever... IMO.

What would cause that?

It's been my experience that psychonauts are quite different characters from "normal" people. I think the super-ego (the stern, over-protective parent in all our minds) has a difficult time pulling through any intensely contemplative experience that challenges our sense of who and what we are, and what it means to be alive.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Smoke saliva? You mean salvia?

That's what I get for assuming that red line is incorrectly spelled, and not paying attention to the words that are actually there.

 

[waitasec]

does anyone know what side of the brain psychedelics inhibit?

 

[The Wizard]

They MAGNIFY your personality.

Perhaps sometimes they even reveal your deeper person to your own Self.
This of course will leave you (comparitively) "changed".

It was a permanent change I observed from the guy. Not a temporary one. I just thought it was quite profound if he wasn't pulling my leg. The doors of perception, as Jim Morrison and others would have known something about it. There must be a deep change/alteration on a personal level that can take place for some people.

I listen to late night talk show radio (Coast-to-Coast AM) and people say they see reptilians and aliens on DMT (I think that was the drug). Sure is some strange stuff out there. I just wonder sometimes what causes this stuff if it is "trendy."

 

[Vendetta]

does anyone know what side of the brain psychedelics inhibit?

Frontal and parietal but it varies....psychedelics mostly deal with the.inhibition of serotonin reuptake and dorsal raphe just to name a few

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

The Liberty Cap mushrooms were commonly consumed by British seers, shamens, druids and mystics for thousands of years before they were outlawed for consumption recently.
In the last hundred years only a handful of British citizens have died from the results of becoming intoxicated by the fungi...there are more ambulance call outs for alcohol overintoxication in one weekend night in the streets of London alone than there are ambulance call outs for an average whole year of mushroom users in the entire country.
15 - 17 out of around 100,000 British citizens die from alcohol related causes every year in the UK around 7 - 9000 a year.
Many more of course are seriously injured or otherwise harmed by alcohol indirectly or directly.
Yet for selling magic mushrooms you can get life imprisonment in this nation?
I guess this is partly why I refuse to vote...they are all the same...hypocrites retards and liars...and oppressors of my religious beliefs.

Screw the government.

 

[Thief]

if it makes you happy to believe people are "dreaming when awake" when they hallucinate on psychedelics, then I guess more power to you. I'm just reminding people that factually, this is rubbish. For instance 5-ht2a receptors are activated when ingesting hallucinogens, they aren't when dreaming. If you'd like to go into more of the mechanics to prove me wrong, then go ahead, I will always admit when I'm wrong if shown evidence.

Apparently you missed the televised interview with the people who still work in labs and still produce such chemistry?

 

[Vendetta]

It was a permanent change I observed from the guy. Not a temporary one. I just thought it was quite profound if he wasn't pulling my leg. The doors of perception, as Jim Morrison and others would have known something about it. There must be a deep change/alteration on a personal level that can take place for some people.

I listen to late night talk show radio (Coast-to-Coast AM) and people say they see reptilians and aliens on DMT (I think that was the drug). Sure is some strange stuff out there. I just wonder sometimes what causes this stuff if it is "trendy."

Psychedelics don't change brain chemistry so it must be something else that maybe comorbid with psychedelics use.

 

[no-body]

Apparently you missed the televised interview with the people who still work in labs and still produce such chemistry?

Yes I'll get right on to watching that mystery program. Seriously though, I wouldn't trust most things said on TV especially if the DEA or some sort of official agency was involved in it's production. Even if some scientist did say that, it was probably to dumb it down for the viewer.

 

[Thief]

Yes I'll get right on to watching that mystery program. Seriously though, I wouldn't trust most things said on TV especially if the DEA or some sort of official agency was involved in it's production. Even if some scientist did say that, it was probably to dumb it down for the viewer.

I liked the interview part.....the guy still working in the lab.
Still making new molecules.

I would believe him....and I do.

And I don't recall any law enforcement involved....though there was a mention of an LSD experiment in progress....
and they got a letter from the government, their grant had been pulled, and the study was to be shut down immediately.
There were six scientist in the back room, each one doing their 'personal
observation'.
The letter was 'shelved' for a day.

Otherwise the documentary was straight forward explanation.

Too bad you missed it.