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What is the Bible?

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, the Christian Bible consists of the Old Testament and the New Testament. In the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions, the Old Testament includes writings considered apocryphal by Protestants. The New Testament contains four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John), Acts, 21 letters, and Revelation.

How do you feel about that?
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Bi...ble consists of,, 21 letters, and Revelation.
 

Ignatius A

Well-Known Member
According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, the Christian Bible consists of the Old Testament and the New Testament. In the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions, the Old Testament includes writings considered apocryphal by Protestants. The New Testament contains four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John), Acts, 21 letters, and Revelation.

How do you feel about that?
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Bible#:~:text=The Christian Bible consists of,, 21 letters, and Revelation.
What protestant think is irrelevant as they believe things that aren't even in the Bible like the two solas. The canon of scripture was established in 382 at the council of Rome and reaffirmed at Hippo 393, Carthage 397, and Florence 1442. No on questioned that until Luther decided he disagreed with the Bible. Protestants arent good interpretors of scripture.
 

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
No issue.

From the deciding of the canon, the Bible has 73 books in whole and can be based on either the Septuagint or the Masoretic Text.

I use both.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
the Old Testament includes writings considered apocryphal by Protestants.

I think the Gospels are pretty much the same but arranged differently concerning the pastorals. The biggest difference is the Hebrew Scriptures.
Luther did not accept, as inspired, books of Hebrew Scripture in Greek, the Septuagint, neither did the Rabbis.
 

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
I think the Gospels are pretty much the same but arranged differently concerning the pastorals. The biggest difference is the Hebrew Scriptures.
Luther did not accept, as inspired, books of Hebrew Scripture in Greek, the Septuagint, neither did the Rabbis.
The earliest Christians, all Jews, used the LXX.

So I think your statement is false. Paul used the LXX.

We can tell from their quotes and the Bible the Orthodox Church uses, their choice of books and so on. The LXX was the standard, it seems.
 

DNB

Christian
According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, the Christian Bible consists of the Old Testament and the New Testament. In the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions, the Old Testament includes writings considered apocryphal by Protestants. The New Testament contains four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John), Acts, 21 letters, and Revelation.

How do you feel about that?
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Bible#:~:text=The Christian Bible consists of,, 21 letters, and Revelation.
It's been a while since I've read the deuterocanonical books, so I can't attest to their corroboration with the rest of, what I believe to be, the standard canon (66 books) - pseudepigrapha, for example, are clearly nonsensical.

Because none of the apocrypha are written in Hebrew, and due to their intertestamental circa, I tend to not consider them to be authorized by the proper processes - compiled collectively by scribes, priests, or prophets (omitted from the Hebrew canon)
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, the Christian Bible consists of the Old Testament and the New Testament. In the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions, the Old Testament includes writings considered apocryphal by Protestants. The New Testament contains four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John), Acts, 21 letters, and Revelation.

How do you feel about that?
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Bible#:~:text=The Christian Bible consists of,, 21 letters, and Revelation.
I think it is a wonderful collection of writtings that have a scarlet thread tying it all together.

It is interesting that even the Protestant KJV can include the Apocryphal books.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I think it is a wonderful collection of writtings that have a scarlet thread tying it all together.

It is interesting that even the Protestant KJV can include the Apocryphal books.
That is interesting, thank you.
 

Betho_br

Active Member
The compendium generally understood as the Holy Bible can be considered schizophrenic, as it combines the Hebrew Bible with the Christian Bible, with the Christian Bible largely using quotations from the Greek Septuagint. Moreover, it is a religious affront to Jews to refer to the Hebrew Bible as the Old Testament, implying it is outdated, no longer in effect, and surpassed.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
The compendium generally understood as the Holy Bible can be considered schizophrenic, as it combines the Hebrew Bible with the Christian Bible, with the Christian Bible largely using quotations from the Greek Septuagint. Moreover, it is a religious affront to Jews to refer to the Hebrew Bible as the Old Testament, implying it is outdated, no longer in effect, and surpassed.

Thanks for that. :) Just note that, for some Christians, characterizing their scripture as schizophrenicmay be seen as an affront as well.
 

Betho_br

Active Member
In you opinion, at what point/date in the evolution of Christianity does it make sense to speak of "Christians"?

The question was not addressed to me, but without a doubt, the answer to this question represents the origin of all the evils of interpretations. If I may, I would like to answer it.
 
Whoa, whoa, whoa!
please let's calm ourselves here. Are Christians calling their scriptures schizophrenic?

who are those Christians? By what criteria were they adjudged as Christians?

Did Peter, Paul, or any of the apostles ( Who by the way are mostly Jews) say that?
what is your evidence? if you don't have any evidence to these claims, then it's a hearsay.

I can't wake up one morning, enter a medical lab, wear their overalls, and claim I'm a doctor when I'm not. so let's stop making assumptions that those people are Christians because being a Christian goes beyond entering a church a couple of Sundays and taking the plunge.
 

Betho_br

Active Member
I'm not sure what that might mean.



Of course, and thank you.
(At 6:5 [New Testament with Variant Readings-ASRV])
And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolaus a proselyte of Antioch;

(At 11:19-20 [New Testament with Variant Readings-ASRV])
¶They therefore that were scattered abroad upon the tribulation that arose about Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia, and Cyprus, and Antioch, speaking the word to none save only to Jews. But there were some of them, men of Cyprus and Cyrene, who, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Hellenists also, preaching the Lord Jesus.

(At 11:22 [New Testament with Variant Readings-ASRV])
And the report concerning them came to the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas as far as Antioch:

Barnabas (Cyprus, 1st century – Salamis, c. 61) was one of the first Christians considered in the New Testament. His Hellenic Jewish parents gave him the name Joseph (in Byzantine Greek Ιὠσης), but when he sold all his possessions and gave the money to the apostles in Jerusalem, they gave him a new name, Barnabas, which originates from the Aramaic בר נביא, meaning "(the son of) exhortation". However, the Greek text of Acts of the Apostles 4:36 explains the name as υἱός παρακλήσεως (hyios paraklēseōs), which means "son of exhortation/consolation".

(At 11:22-23 [New Testament with Variant Readings-ASRV])
who, when he was come, and had seen the grace of God, was glad; and he exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord (κυρίῳ): for he was a good man, and full of the Holy Spirit and of faith: and many people were added unto the Lord (κυρίῳ).

Here it is necessary to make a choice that may seem trivial but is crucial in the unfolding of all these quotations: The term "the Lord (κυρίῳ) " refers to the Hebrew term "Adonai," which also signifies, when addressing human beings, those who were their masters or lords.

The mission among the Hellenists was complex, thus Paul was brought forth.

(At 11:25 [New Testament with Variant Readings-ASRV])
And he went forth to Tarsus to seek for Saul;

Here begins with the Hellenists, the greatest abjunction with the circumcised Catholic Church of Jerusalem in Judea (Acts of the apostles 9:31; 21:20).

(At 11:26 [New Testament with Variant Readings-ASRV])
and when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that even for a whole year they were gathered together with the church, and taught many people, and that the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

(At 11:26 [New Testament with Variant Readings-ASRV])
Now there were at Antioch, in the church that was [there], prophets and teachers, Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen the foster-brother of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

(At 15:22-24)
Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them to send to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren. And they sent this letter by them: 'The apostles and the elders and the brethren, to the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls, saying that you must be circumcised and keep the law, we decided unanimously to select men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul.

What was decided?

(At 15:19-30)
"Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, but that we write to them to abstain from things contaminated by idols, from fornication, from what is strangled, and from blood. For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath. Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them to send to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren. And they sent this letter by them: 'The apostles and the elders and the brethren, to the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls, saying that you must be circumcised and keep the law, we decided unanimously to select men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will also report the same things by word of mouth. For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell.' So when they were sent away, they went down to Antioch; and having gathered the congregation together, they delivered the letter."

(At 21:25 [New Testament with Variant Readings-ASRV])
But as touching the Gentiles that have believed, we wrote, giving judgment that |they observe no such thing, save only that| they should keep themselves from things sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what is strangled, and from fornication.

Did ideological differences arise afterward?

(Galatians 2:11-13)
But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself, fearing those who belonged to the circumcision group. The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

The destruction of Jerusalem around 70 A.D. and the subsequent weakening of the Judean Jewish Christians occurred when they were accused of "high treason" for fleeing the Roman siege to the mountains, following Jesus' instructions. This event further strained the relationships between the circumcised Christian churches of Jerusalem and the converted Gentiles from other countries.

Let's go back to the figure of Nicolaus.


(Ap 2:6 [New Testament with Variant Readings-ASRV])
But this thou hast, that thou hatest the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

(Ap 2:15 [New Testament with Variant Readings-ASRV])
So hast thou also some that hold the doctrine of [the] °Nicolaitans in like manner.

What was the doctrine of the Nicolaitans?

We do not know precisely, and this refers to Nicolaus in Antioch, however, if we analyze the book Revelations 95 (d.C) we will read the following:

(Revelations 3:10-13)
Because thou didst keep the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of testing, that [hour] which is to come upon the whole world, to test them that dwell upon the earth. |Behold|, I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine own new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.

Considering that the doctrine of the Nicolaitans is also within the scope of the seven letters sent to the churches of Asia, which also report that He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks among the seven golden lampstands; the first and the last, who was dead, and came to life; He who has the sharp two-edged sword; the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and feet like fine brass; He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars; He who is holy, who is true, who has the key of David; He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens; the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God, HAS A GOD, it is quite likely that the doctrine of the Nicolaitans emerged from the weakening of the relations of the Gentile church of Antioch with Jerusalem, utilizing texts from the Septuagint where many polysemous words like theos, Kyrios, were interpreted as the sacred Tetragrammaton, the Almighty God, when one could also have chosen to translate them as Elohim (a divine magistrate), a human lord over all, etc.
 

Betho_br

Active Member
Whoa, whoa, whoa!
please let's calm ourselves here. Are Christians calling their scriptures schizophrenic?

who are those Christians? By what criteria were they adjudged as Christians?

Did Peter, Paul, or any of the apostles ( Who by the way are mostly Jews) say that?
what is your evidence? if you don't have any evidence to these claims, then it's a hearsay.

I can't wake up one morning, enter a medical lab, wear their overalls, and claim I'm a doctor when I'm not. so let's stop making assumptions that those people are Christians because being a Christian goes beyond entering a church a couple of Sundays and taking the plunge.

If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
Did ideological differences arise afterward?
The resolution of the council wasn't part of Paul's message to the Galatians:

And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Only [they would] that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.
Galatians 2:9-10
 

Betho_br

Active Member
Many people are ignored in this forum, and the list continues to grow. I have moved beyond the phase of disrespecting someone who lacks basic life sense to refuting someone with educated, logical, and coherent arguments. I consider this a valid option, since not everyone can love themselves, but respect is the minimum.
 
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