What is the definition of a "Woman"?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I can't help but notice that Caitlyn Jenner, who, when she ran as Bruce in the 1970s was also knows as the "world's greatest Athlete," said this:

"I've never been against Lia Thomas. She actually played within the rules. Was it fair? No, it wasn't fair, it's not a fair fight -- but she played within the rules. I have been from the beginning out to protect women's sports. I haven't been out to protect transgender athletes, but this is not an easy ... it's a tough subject. There's no one answer that fits everything.

"We need to stand up for women's sports. We got to keep it fair."

You do realize that Lia Thomas's best performances in women's categories are further off the women's records (held by cis women, BTW) than she was off the men's records when she competed in the men's categories, right?

 

[We Never Know]

You do realize that Lia Thomas's best performances in women's categories are further off the women's records (held by cis women, BTW) than she was off the men's records when she competed in the men's categories, right?

So they never broke any female records?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So they never broke any female records?

She's certainly in contention for records for things like "most bigots pulled out of the woodwork," but she's further off the NCAA records now than when she competed in the men's categories.

 

[We Never Know]

She's certainly in contention for records for things like "most bigots pulled out of the woodwork," but she's further off the NCAA records now than when she competed in the men's categories.

So are you saying they never broke female records?

 

[Bill Starr]

There are no male records that will be broken by a women becoming a man male hormones are banned in all male sports and the male body is stronger like it or not. This is really for women to decide if they are ok with a man who became a women to take a women's record if they are ok with it so be it. I not saying it can't happen in male sports it would be a rare incident. But in women's sport a transgender could dominate.
I am sure some of the women competing feel its unfair but you can't question it or your a hater.

I saw a picture of her she looks like a man.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

"What does it matter whether I think somebody who was born male can "understand what it feels like to be a woman?" It matters whether the person who feels as if THEY are female."

That's my point. How do they know how a female feels?

You are pretending that females know how another female feels? Nobody can really know how it feels to be any other person. But I can listen to other people, observe them closely, turn my empathy way up high, and try as best I can to get close.

You should try that with a trans-woman. Ask her how she feels, ask her what it feels like to be her, to feel like a woman with parts that don't fit.

Instead, you leap to your own conclusion, and determine you know about somebody else you've never even tried to understand. I'm willing to be you would hate that if somebody leapt to unwarranted conclusions about you.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Biological sex is real (science) Gender (as you describe it) is make-believe.

Mind and psychology are make-believe? Wow! I have no words that I'd be permitted to use to tell you what I think of that!

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

The assertion that the entire medical and phycological profession are in agreement isn't true. Pop culture bias drowns out dissenting voices. Its become a PC issue.

Gender reassignment is acting. To play the part some actors go so far as to modify their true bodies. Its in character 24/7. When Bruce Jenner decided to become Caitlyn Jenner, he took on an acting roll as a women. He gets a lot of attention now, attention that faded away from his previous sports career.

And another one who pretends to know what is really going on in another person's mind. You have just made the tacit claim that Caitlyn Jenner does NOT identify as female, but is just acting to get attention. You a mind reader, too?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So are you saying they never broke female records?

I'm saying she hasn't broken any NCAA records.

Are you having trouble reading my posts?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I saw a picture of her she looks like a man.

People say the same thing about (current NCAA freestyle record holder and cisgender woman) Katie Ledecky.





Maybe that's just the "look" you end up with if you train to be an elite swimmer.

 

[Colt]

And another one who pretends to know what is really going on in another person's mind. You have just made the tacit claim that Caitlyn Jenner does NOT identify as female, but is just acting to get attention. You a mind reader, too?

Pretend? Its an observation. Bruce Jenner is now acting like a women on the outside. When I watch theater I can tell people are acting like a character. That doesn't require mind reading.

 

[We Never Know]

You are pretending that females know how another female feels? Nobody can really know how it feels to be any other person. But I can listen to other people, observe them closely, turn my empathy way up high, and try as best I can to get close.

You should try that with a trans-woman. Ask her how she feels, ask her what it feels like to be her, to feel like a woman with parts that don't fit.

Instead, you leap to your own conclusion, and determine you know about somebody else you've never even tried to understand. I'm willing to be you would hate that if somebody leapt to unwarranted conclusions about you.

Asking "How do they know how a female feels" is not determining I know about somebody else.

 

[Windwalker]

Were I up there answering such an emotionally charged
question, I'd first bring up the various complexities. Then
state that changing contexts & standards would require
research to answer each one individually & thoughtfully.
Finally, for those reasons, I'd demur. And add that legal
opinions should not be tossed about hurriedly. One can
speak about cases one has handled, but not so easily
about hypotheticals.

While all this is completely rational, reasonable, and intelligent, it's also an easy target for politicians who pander to black and white thinkers. "You're making it too complex! You're evading the answer! It's easy. Yes or no?". And that you couldn't reduce the question down to such black and white variables, then you'd be cast as not right for the job of deciding what appear to be clear cut issues:

"Life begins at conception; all males and females are supposed to be heterosexuals; killing criminals reduces crime; teaching creationism inspires faith and a better society, and so forth. It's so ridiculously, clear on all these issues, these "libs" with their nuances and complexity are blind to simple facts!".​

That's how this is seen, when you dare to challenge such a narrow perspective of reality, and it's what politicians exploit to get votes and be put into positions of power.

 

[We Never Know]

I'm saying she hasn't broken any NCAA records.

Are you having trouble reading my posts?

Sure I read your posts. My question simply was "have they broken any female records?"
You dodged that question complety.

So...here a search...

Lia Thomas smashes female records - Search

 

[Revoltingest]

While all this is completely rational, reasonable, and intelligent, it's also an easy target for politicians who pander to black and white thinkers. "You're making it too complex! You're evading the answer! It's easy. Yes or no?". And that you couldn't reduce the question down to such black and white variables, then you'd be cast as not right for the job of deciding what appear to be clear cut issues:

"Life begins at conception; all males and females are supposed to be heterosexuals; killing criminals reduces crime; teaching creationism inspires faith and a better society, and so forth. It's so ridiculously, clear on all these issues, these "libs" with their nuances and complexity are blind to simple facts!".​

That's how this is seen, when you dare to challenge such a narrow perspective of reality, and it's what politicians exploit to get votes and be put into positions of power.

Perhaps she should've just said, "It's in the Bible!".

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I know that Rowling is not bigoted against Gays, since she made Professor Albus Dumbledore Gay.

It’s queer coded, not explicitly stated. Also, Dumbledore is a liar who was in love with a terrorist, so Rowling doesn’t use positive role models when describing such people. See also: Lupin.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

There are plenty of stories (like the website above) that show transgender men raping women.

But since women can rape too, their trans status is irrelevant.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Asking "How do they know how a female feels" is not determining I know about somebody else.

That was my point -- you can't. And therefore, you can't know what it is like to feel like a woman in a male body. You don't know. And therefore you ought to be more open to trying as best you can to understand such a person. We can't always grasp it fully. I know I can't -- I don't really "understand" it at all. But I try to be sensititive to the fact that my lack of understanding does not make the other person wrong.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Amazing how people can spend so much time on the difference between sex and gender but can't explain the difference between male and female. I have NO PROBLEM with a person in a female body saying she "identifies as male" or "feels like a male" or some other words. My problem is with someone in a female body saying she IS male. The person in the photo above is NOT a male. She is a female with small breasts and a beard. And I have a problem with someone competing in female sports when he has male organs tucked in his tutu. Yes he IS his gonads regardless of what his brain tells him. This should not be treated as a medical problem with the physical body but as a mental problem in the brain.

We are not our gonads

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Maybe you idea of reality

Clown fish can change sex. Many species can.