What is the evidence of God’s Love?

[Trailblazer]

OK.

Do you think that his death on the cross did anything for mankind?

Funny that you ask. I just finished explaining what I believe Jesus did to save us.

God is love and just

God is love and just. The Bible has stories where innocent people get killed What is then the conclusion? The Bible has errors.. or we humans do not understand the Bible properly? Whatdo you think? because someone is loving doesn't mean everyone is loving in some static form. love is a...

www.religiousforums.com

Regarding His death on the cross:

"This is the meaning of the words of Christ, “I gave My blood for the life of the world” 6 —that is to say, I have chosen all these troubles, these sufferings, calamities, and even the greatest martyrdom, to attain this object, the remission of sins.”

 

[Kenny]

Funny that you ask. I just finished explaining what I believe Jesus did to save us. That includes His death on the cross.

God is love and just

God is love and just. The Bible has stories where innocent people get killed What is then the conclusion? The Bible has errors.. or we humans do not understand the Bible properly? Whatdo you think? because someone is loving doesn't mean everyone is loving in some static form. love is a...

www.religiousforums.com

Very interesting… thank you for sharing.

 

[Trailblazer]

It’s still not being done

How do you know that?

Revelation 11:18…Has God brought to ruin “those ruining the Earth”?
It’s still being ruined.

Matthew 5:5…”Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.”
Have the meek ‘inherited the earth’ yet? No.

Has Isaiah 11:6-9 been fulfilled yet? No.

Psalms 37:38… do you see wicked people still around? I do. They make the news everyday!

Are people still in ‘pain & mourning’? (I know you are. Me too, to some degree.) Are people still dying? Then Revelation 21:3,4 has not been fulfilled, either.

There are so many more Scriptures i could use.

No, God’s will for the Earth isn’t being done yet. “As in Heaven”? No way.

What made you think it had been?

I said: We were to pray for God's Will to be done on earth from the time that verse was recorded until the appointed time, when God's Will was done.

I should have said:
We were to pray for God's Will to be done on Earth from the time that verse was recorded until the Kingdom of God is built on Earth.
It is that time that God's Will will be done.

The appointed time is when Christ returns to usher in the Kingdom of God on earth, but there is no reason to think that the Kingdom of God will come to Earth as soon as Christ returns. There is also no reason to think that Christ will be the one who builds that Kingdom because nothing in the Bible says that Christ will build the Kingdom.

In short, I believe that God's Will will not be done until the Kingdom is built, and the Kingdom will be built by humans, which is a process that takes a long time. I believe that process has started since I believe that Christ has returned, but the Kingdom will come to Earth gradually, as humans build it.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

It is that time that God's Will will be done.

So you just verified that you agree with my statement, that God’s Will isn’t being done now.

Hence, all the problems.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

And @Trailblazer , this must be close to the 10th post where you quoted Isaiah 45:7.

Please note, that verse does not say, God created evil. As if He is the originator of it.
It says ‘He creates evil.”

If I said, “I created ice cream”, you’d think I was the first one who made it, that I originated the stuff. But if I said, “I create ice cream”, you wouldn’t think that.

Why are you trying to make the account say something it doesn’t?

If you read the context of Isaiah 44 & 45, you’ll see among other things that God was talking about Cyrus, who would rescue the Jews out of Babylon, God’s enemy.

And Jehovah eventually does “create evil” for all His enemies.

 

[Trailblazer]

So you just verified that you agree with my statement, that God’s Will isn’t being done now.

Hence, all the problems.

That is not what I said.

God's Will will not be completely done until the Kingdom is built on Earth. Until it is built there will be a lot of problems on Earth.
Building the Kingdom of God on Earth is a process that takes a long time. That process has already begun so God's Will is being done now.

 

[Trailblazer]

And @Trailblazer , this must be close to the 10th post where you quoted Isaiah 45:7.

Please note, that verse does not say, God created evil. As if He is the originator of it.
It says ‘He creates evil.”

The verse say what I create evil.

Isaiah 45:7 King James Version
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

 

[RestlessSoul]

The meaning of those three words God is Love, is not something which can be apprehended with the intellect. You have to feel the depth and weight of them, somewhere in the core of your being; in the place where a melody, or a painting, or other piece of art grabs you.

Sometimes simple spiritual concepts resonate with us, at the level of God-consciousness, beyond the grinding gears of the chattering mind.

 

[RestlessSoul]

The verse say what I create evil.

Isaiah 45:7 King James Version
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Yes, that’s YHWH, the Hebrew/OT God-concept in which opposites exist in undivided form, beyond the duality of good and evil. A distinct concept really, from the loving father of Christian theology.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, that’s YHWH, the Hebrew/OT God-concept in which opposites exist in undivided form, beyond the duality of good and evil. A distinct concept really, from the loving father of Christian theology.

also a distinct concept from the loving father of Baha'i theology.

 

[Trailblazer]

The meaning of those three words God is Love, is not something which can be apprehended with the intellect. You have to feel the depth and weight of them, somewhere in the core of your being; in the place where a melody, or a painting, or other piece of art grabs you.

I have analyzed this ad infinitum, and I think my problem is that I have a difficult time relating to love in general, given my family upbringing and life experiences, so that is why I cannot believe that God is Love.

 

[RestlessSoul]

P

I have analyzed this ad infinitum, and I think my problem is that I have a difficult time relating to love in general, given my family upbringing and life experiences, so that is why I cannot believe that God is Love.

When I was at a very low point in my life, I had some residual belief in God, but no faith, if that makes sense? I felt that God couldn’t possibly live me, because I was unworthy of love. People with low self esteem often feel like this, for whatever reason. But I have subsequently come to believe that God loves and cares for all of us, and that the more broken hearted, desperate and forlorn we are, the more He cares for us. And that this is true even and especially when we are unable to care for ourselves.

 

[Trailblazer]

When I was at a very low point in my life, I had some residual belief in God, but no faith, if that makes sense? I felt that God couldn’t possibly live me, because I was unworthy of love. People with low self esteem often feel like this, for whatever reason.

I don't think I have low self-esteem, but I cannot say I love myself, so maybe that is one reason why don't thing anyone else, including God, would love me.

But I have subsequently come to believe that God loves and cares for all of us, and that the more broken hearted, desperate and forlorn we are, the more He cares for us. And that this is true even and especially when we are unable to care for ourselves.

I believe that cognitively, but not in my heart, if that makes any sense. Apparently there is a disconnect between my head and my heart.

Also, I am not really an emotional person, I am more mental.
Part of the reason for that is because I have had to turn off my feelings in order to survive all the suffering in my life.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The verse say what I create evil.

Isaiah 45:7 King James Version
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Which doesn’t change what I said, does it?

It’s written in present tense, not past tense.

God didn’t originate evil. And, for examples, God wasn’t behind the evil that Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Stalin, etc. etc. perpetrated. ‘The defect was their own.’
Deuteronomy 32:4,5.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

The verse say what I create evil.

Isaiah 45:7 King James Version
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

In response to your post, I'd like to repost what I wrote in another thread earlier today because I think it coincides with what you said.

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." - John 3:16

This verse claims that God loves the world. But is that actually true? I ask because of Proverbs 16:4, which states he creates wicked people for his own purpose. I wonder how Christians will justify God creating wicked people. I ask, How can God be all-loving if he creates some people to be wicked?

FYI, Bible Hub provides several versions of this verse: Proverbs 16:4.

KJV: "The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

NIV: "The LORD works out everything to its proper end— even the wicked for a day of disaster."

ESV: "The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble."

Wicked: 1. evil or immoral; 2. maliciously or mischievously playful; 3. severe and distressing.

According to this verse, he creates wicked people, and according to Isaiah 45:7, he also creates evil. Furthermore, according to Genesis 6:6-7, he regretted creating not only mankind but also every animal, every creature that creeps on the ground, and the birds of the air. I would think that an omniscient (Psalm 139:1-6; Isaiah 46:9–10; 1 John 3:20), omnipotent (Psalm 147:5; Job 42:2; Daniel 2:21), and omnipresent (Psalm 139:7–10; Isaiah 40:12; Colossians 1:17) God would know better than to create something that he foreknew he would later regret creating. The Bible contains other verses that mention God's regrets in addition to creating mankind (1 Samuel 15:11; 2 Samuel 24:16; Jeremiah 42:10). There are some verses describing him changing his mind about bringing disasters down on his own people as punishment for their sins against him (Jeremiah 26:13; 1 Chronicles 21:15; Joel 2:13). For the record, Jeremiah 26:13, 1 Chronicles 21:15, and Joel 2:13 coincide with Isaiah 45:7 (NIV), which says, "I form the light and create darkness; I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things." The New King James uses the word "calamity" instead of disaster, and the KJV uses the word "evil" instead of disaster or calamity.

KJV: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

Evil:
1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked, 2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful, 3. Characterized by or indicating misfortune; ominous.

NIV: "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."

Disaster:
1. An occurrence causing widespread destruction and distress; a catastrophe; 2. A grave misfortune, and 3. A total failure.

ESV: "I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things."

Calamity: 1. An event that brings terrible loss, lasting distress, or severe affliction; a disaster, 2. Dire distress resulting from loss or tragedy; 3. Any great misfortune or cause of misery; in general, any event or disaster which produces extensive evils, as loss of crops, earthquakes, etc., but also applied to any misfortune which brings great distress on a person; misfortune; distress; adversity.

 

[Trailblazer]

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." - John 3:16

This verse claims that God loves the world. But is that actually true? I ask because of Proverbs 16:4, which states he creates wicked people for his own purpose. I wonder how Christians will justify God creating wicked people. I ask, How can God be all-loving if he creates some people to be wicked?

FYI, Bible Hub provides several versions of this verse: Proverbs 16:4.

KJV: "The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

NIV: "The LORD works out everything to its proper end— even the wicked for a day of disaster."

ESV: "The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble."

I do not believe that God created people to be wicked. How could that be true if God created man in His own image?

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

In order for Proverbs 16:4 to be true, if it is referring to wicked people, God would also have to be wicked, but many Bible verses say God is good, and no verses say that God is wicked.

Then we also have this verse:

Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Humans are part of every thing that God made, and it was very good, not wicked.
This verse is in accordance with Baha'i beliefs.

 

[Trailblazer]

Which doesn’t change what I said, does it?

It’s written in present tense, not past tense.

God didn’t originate evil. And, for examples, God wasn’t behind the evil that Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Stalin, etc. etc. perpetrated. ‘The defect was their own.’
Deuteronomy 32:4,5.

It does not matter what this verses says, whether it is in present or past tense.

God does not create evil, only humans create evil.

Isaiah 45:7 King James Version
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

I consider that a poor Bible translation. There are other translations that are more accurate.

NIRV I cause light to shine. I also create darkness. I bring good times. I also create hard times. I do all these things. I am the Lord.

AMP The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing peace and creating disaster; I am the Lord who does all these things.

ERV I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause trouble. I, the Lord, do all these things.

EHV I am the one who forms light and creates darkness, the one who makes peace and creates disaster. I am the Lord, the one who does all these things.

ESV I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things.

TLB I form the light and make the dark. I send good times and bad. I, Jehovah, am he who does these things.

NASB The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating disaster; I am the Lord who does all these things.

NCB I form the light and create the darkness; prosperity and disaster depend upon my will; I, the Lord, do all these things.

NCV I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause troubles. I, the Lord, do all these things.

NIRV I cause light to shine. I also create darkness. I bring good times. I also create hard times. I do all these things. I am the Lord.

NIV I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 - Bible Gateway

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I do not believe that God created people to be wicked. How could that be true if God created man in His own image?

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

In order for Proverbs 16:4 to be true, if it is referring to wicked people, God would also have to be wicked, but many Bible verses say God is good, and no verses say that God is wicked.

Then we also have this verse:

Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Humans are part of every thing that God made, and it was very good, not wicked.
This verse is in accordance with Baha'i beliefs.

I had a feeling that we would disagree about the scriptures I mentioned, but that's all right. Perhaps we should agree to disagree on them.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I do not believe that God created people to be wicked. How could that be true if God created man in His own image?

That’s good reasoning!
IMO.

Take care.