TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Now who's arguing strawman?
Where have I said these are (exclusively) theistic beliefs?
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What is the falsification methodology of the God argument?
- Thread starter firedragon
- Start date
Now who's arguing strawman?
Where have I said these are (exclusively) theistic beliefs?
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
No. The flood as described in the bible is demonstrably physically impossible. The boat too.
Record Few Americans Believe Bible Is Literal Word of God (gallup.com)
There are about 330 million americans.
24% believe the bible is literally true, every word.
So I was wrong indeed, it's not 70 million. It's actually 80 million.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
"some people" ey?
If you wish to call 80 million people "some people", maybe.
And that's just bible literalist from America alone.
Don't tell me that "most, if not all" theists only believe things that make sense.
And these folks, all believe this nonsense "on faith".
Because, just like my initial point which started this whole thing, that can only be done precisely because on faith, you can believe literally ANYTHING.
Faith is not a pathway to truth.
Faith, is not sensible.
halbhh
The wonder and awe of "all things".
Faith is to believe before seeing specific evidence that proves the specific thing believed in a strongly supportive way.
But we tend to put faith into things we think there is good cause to believe in -- so we don't just believe in whatever, but in things for a reason.
Now, of course, in the case of YEC, the problem is God didn't explain time details about creation, and then some not very logical thinkers then filled in the blanks with assumptions, and then asserted their theory was what the text says, and tricked others into believing that. It is possible to tell people what to see, and then read a text to them encouraging them to see what you have told them to see, and there's how YEC started in my guesstimation. But in reality the Genesis chapter 1 text doesn't' even tell us how much time passed during verse 1 before the later moment in verse 2. The assumption that is little or zero time is a total invention out of nowhere, but it's a key YEC assumption.
exchemist
Veteran Member
There is no evidence of a plan. Nature does not seem to be teleological.
halbhh
The wonder and awe of "all things".
I agree. Clear and undisputable evidence that clearly proved God exists would contradict the repeated message of the common bible that God wants us to do that 'leap of faith' commonly called 'to believe' or 'have faith'. One could not accomplish 'faith' if easy proof was already seen ahead of time. Ergo, if the bible is correct (as I think from testing things Christ said), then clear proof ahead of time must all be removed/missing, as a necessary condition for taking that choice to trust/have faith one is asked to do towards God, the one who loves us enough to suffer for us to the level of death to turn us from evil (or just dissipation) back to Him.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
Why the 'vs'?
My faith is based on the evidence I have been given.
My faith is based on the evidence I have been given.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
No, I wasn't referring to 'Bible-belt-ish' Christians. I was referring to you actually.
As I explained to you, this is not true.
Faith + Evidence is most definitely a pathway to Truth.
Faith makes complete sense to me.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
You said (#429) that 80 million Americans believe in a 6000 year old earth and the physically impossible literal interpretation of the flood.
You produced the following when I asked for your evidence:
Record Few Americans Believe Bible Is Literal Word of God (gallup.com)
I can't seem to find the evidence in this 'poll'. Are you sure it's in there?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The poll is the evidence. It said that 25% of Americans believe in the Bible literally:
Fewer than one in four Americans (24%) now believe the Bible is "the actual word of God, and is to be taken literally, word for word,"
0.24*331,000,000 = 79.44 million. That is pretty close to 80 million.
EDIT: If you read the article there was a link to the question that they asked in the poll. Here it is:
Which of the following statements comes closest to describing your views about the Bible -- the Bible is the actual word of God and is to be taken literally, word for word, the Bible is the inspired word of God but not everything in it should be taken literally, or the Bible is an ancient book of fables, legends, history, and moral precepts recorded by man]?
If one believes the Bible "word for word" that means that one believes the Noah's Ark myth.
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
It does not matter at all for me. I have no need for a God in my life and I do not believe in the life-after death crap.
God did not also give time details about the 'end of the days'. People have been waiting for over 2000 years for it. And every five or ten years, someone or the other crops up saying that the end of days in March or September.
"Leap of faith"! IMHO, it is a 'leap in to ignorance`, making humans out of mud and women from the man's rib. Such 'leap of faith' has always been convenient to shamans and charlatans.
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Yes and since the premises might have to hold things of infinite value (for god arguments), I'm unsure as to whether it can be logically deduced in the first place.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
Ah! Yet another literalist.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
I would be very interested to know how this poll was set up; how many Christians were involved, type of questions asked, when and where the questions were asked, how many fundamentalists / liberal Christians made up total believers...
One has to be very careful when using polls as evidence of any kind.
But I expect you are aware of this.
(I wonder how many Christians believe that Jesus is a gate?)
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Literal or allegorical, it does not make any difference to me. I am a strong atheist and a Hindu.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
There are probably far more Christian literalists than you think that there are. And you missed the point of the article. This is the lowest ever percentage of literalists ever. Gallup is usually fairly reliable for this fort of poll since they strive not to have an agenda either way.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
Yes, I too was one those (strong atheist).
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
No, I didn't miss the point of the article.
I am constantly surprised that I come across so few Christian literalists.
I think that those who have abandoned the literalist approach to Scriptural truth now realize how much they were missing.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
We all have our stories. Yourself, changing from atheism to theism; and myself, changing from theism to strong atheism (which does not even agree to the possibility of existence of Gods and Goddesses and even less to the existence of just one God professed by a certain religion). What proof can you provide for it?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
There are quite a few here. And I can name a forum where most of the Christians appear to be literalists. The literalists are in the minority, but they make far more noise than those that are not. As a result many non-Christians have a tendency to overestimate their numbers.