What is the greatest illusion?

[godnotgod]

Just think how different the world would be if everyone did believe that the devil did exist and that one day we would be judged for every deed. Surely the world would be a much better place if we all genuinely feared the consequences of our selfish actions.

Then we would do the right [moral] thing for the wrong reasons, which would only keep us going round and round in circles, driven by a misleading system of reward and punishment.

The world would be a better place if we consciously sought to transform selfish action into unselfish action.

We should not allow ourselves to be fear [karma]-driven, but Way-driven. We don't need to fear the consequences of delusively-driven action; we need to simply see it for what it is and stay out of trouble.

 

[Knowledge]

What is the greatest illusion?

Probably believing that you are the only person in your individualistic view.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

Reality

 

[zenzero]

Friend rsd,

What is the greatest illusion?

personal understanding:
Consciousness simply IS.
IT is neither atheist or theist; in short it is inclusive and exclusive of any duality.
So whatever comes to anyone's mind is simply an illusion.

Love & rgds

 

[godnotgod]

Friend rsd,


personal understanding:
Consciousness simply IS.
IT is neither atheist or theist; in short it is inclusive and exclusive of any duality.
So whatever comes to anyone's mind is simply an illusion.

Love & rgds

The mind itself is a self-created illusion.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Godnotgod,

True!
However it is also true that mind the root of all illusions exists, even momentarily.

Love & rgds

 

[godnotgod]

Friend Godnotgod,

True!
However it is also true that mind the root of all illusions exists, even momentarily.

Love & rgds

Would you...uh...'mind' (no pun) rephrasing that, por favor?

 

[YmirGF]

Seems to me that the belief so many people have that they know and understand some kind of ultimate absolute truth is life's greatest illusion.

The pearl in the thread award goes to - Mestemia.

 

[zenzero]

Friend gng,

"Mind" has no definition except that one takes it as a space where thoughts pass through.
Now if a thought is in passing, it cannot be denied that a thought passed as that is true and so the existence of mind is also true even though momentarily when the thought passed.
Now, could you clarify

The mind itself is a self-created illusion.

what is this *self* and how it created any illusion for itself??

Love & rgds

 

[godnotgod]

Friend gng,

"Mind" has no definition except that one takes it as a space where thoughts pass through.
Now if a thought is in passing, it cannot be denied that a thought passed as that is true and so the existence of mind is also true even though momentarily when the thought passed.
Now, could you clarify
what is this *self* and how it created any illusion for itself??

Love & rgds

Let's get to the source of this. In reality, there is only the seeing of the thought; the awareness of it. That is all. To say that there is a mind which sees, which is aware, is to add an agent of seeing; of awareness, so we assign thinking of the thought to the mind, and say there is a thinker of the thought. That is called 'being attached'.

In moments where you are just being in the moment, there is no thought of mind or self. It comes back into play immediately and quickly, so it's absence is not noticed. It is in that split second that it 'self-creates'. It is this self-conscious awareness that is an echo of the experience, and creates itself as "I" or 'mind'. You know how audio feedback sounds when a mic in an auditorium goes off? It just keeps reverbing back and forth. ( know that's a poor analogy, but maybe you'll get the image?)

In reality, there is no 'self' which creates an illusion of itself, or one in possession of a mind which thinks, just as there is no snake in the metaphor of the rope moving in the wind. There never was a snake at all, just as there never was a mind or agent of thought. There is only thought, and the seeing of the thought. No self, but a mind that is a self-created principle.

METAPHYSIC. The indefinable basis of knowledge. Metaphysical knowledge or "realization" is an intense clarity of attention to that indefinable and immediate "point" of knowledge which is always "now", and from which all other knowledge is elaborated by reflective thought. A consciousness of "life" in which one is not trying to grasp or define what it knows.

 

[rageoftyrael]

You know, i would say that one of life's greatest illusions is the idea that we could possibly know enough to actually answer this question. Short of there actually being a god, who you could talk to, and give you the answer, we simply aren't gonna know, at least not with any kind of certainty. Logic can only get you so far.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

The grand illusion is to think there is a grand illusion.

I second that,

the illusion of believing in an illusion.

 

[zenzero]

Friend gng,

Let's get to the source of this. In reality, there is only the seeing of the thought; the awareness of it.

Seeing of the thought; seeing by whom?
where did that thought come from?
why did it come?

Love & rgds

 

[godnotgod]

Friend gng,

Seeing of the thought; seeing by whom?

Must there be a see-er for seeing to occur?

where did that thought come from?
why did it come?

Love & rgds

That is the question. Ramana Maharshi tells us this about thoughts and their source:

"Misery is due to the perception of objects. If they are not there, there will be no contingent thoughts and so misery is wiped off. `How will objects cease to be?' is the next question. The srutis [scriptures] and the sages say that the objects are only mental creations. They have no substantive being.

Investigate the matter and ascertain the truth of the statement. The result will be the conclusion that the objective world is in the subjective consciousness. The Self is thus the only reality which permeates and also envelops the world. Since there is no duality, no thoughts will arise to disturb your peace. This is realization of the Self. The Self is eternal and so also is realization."

Ramana Maharshi on I Thought, Search Source of 'I' Thought to end Misery

So he is saying that thought is associated with the condition of the false self, which sees reality incorrectly, as separate 'things', or objects, and where the notion of 'self and other' seems real, whereas the eternal Self is pure being at one with Reality, and therefore without thought.

"I" is also a thought, and the mind a collection of thoughts, both conceived as objects, which are self-created

 

[zenzero]

Friend gng,

Here Ramana Maharshi speaks of the wrong *I* and misery; which is not what am discussing.
On the road, driving and still saying

Must there be a see-er for seeing to occur?

and that the driver is the universal self; then we have nothing to discuss as we are all in Oneness!

Love & rgds

 

[godnotgod]

Friend gng,

Here Ramana Maharshi speaks of the wrong *I* and misery; which is not what am discussing.
On the road, driving and still saying and that the driver is the universal self; then we have nothing to discuss as we are all in Oneness!

Love & rgds

"From Brilliancy I came;
to Brilliancy I return;
what, then, is all this?"
A Monk

 

[godnotgod]

I second that,

the illusion of believing in an illusion.

He who is taken in by the illusion, and he who discovers it are one and the same, are they not, both the Supreme Identity?

 

[connermt]

This

:yes:

 

[Willamena]

This

:yes:

Terry starting a thread?

 

[zenzero]

Friend gng,

"From Brilliancy I came;
to Brilliancy I return;
what, then, is all this?"
A Monk

There is no coming and going my friend.
All coming and going if any are illusions!

Love & rgds