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What is the MIND

zenzero

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friends,
Having so far pointing towards the subject through most posts wished to share this excerpt from the book on the subject by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso of New Kadampa Tradition which was on this website: Kadampa - The New Kadampa Tradition (NKT) - International Kadampa Buddhist Union

What is the Mind?

Extracted from Transform Your Life by Venerable Geshe Kelsang Gyatso.

Some people think that the mind is the brain or some other part or function of the body, but this is incorrect. The brain is a physical object that can be seen with the eyes and that can be photographed or operated on in surgery.

The mind, on the other hand, is not a physical object. It cannot be seen with the eyes, nor can it be photographed or repaired by surgery. The brain, therefore, is not the mind but simply part of the body.

There is nothing within the body that can be identified as being our mind because our body and mind are different entities. For example, sometimes when our body is relaxed and immobile, our mind can be very busy, darting from one object to another. This indicates that our body and mind are not the same entity.

In Buddhist scriptures, our body is compared to a guest house and our mind to a guest dwelling within it. When we die, our mind leaves our body and goes to the next life, just like a guest leaving a guest house and going somewhere else.

If the mind is not the brain, nor any other part of the body, what is it? It is a formless continuum that functions to perceive and understand objects. Because the mind is formless, or non-physical, by nature, it is not obstructed by physical objects.

It is very important to be able to distinguish disturbed states of mind from peaceful states. As explained in the previous chapter, states of mind that disturb our inner peace, such as anger, jealousy, and desirous attachment, are called ‘delusions’; and these are the principal causes of all our suffering.

We may think that our suffering is caused by other people, by poor material conditions, or by society, but in reality it all comes from our own deluded states of mind. The essence of spiritual practice is to reduce and eventually to eradicate altogether our delusions, and to replace them with permanent inner peace. This is the real meaning of our human life.

The essential point of understanding the mind is that liberation from suffering cannot be found outside the mind. Permanent liberation can be found only by purifying the mind. Therefore, if we want to become free from problems and attain lasting peace and happiness we need to increase our knowledge and understanding of the mind.

For a deeper understanding of the nature and functions of the mind, see the book, Understanding the Mind by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso
Click to expand...

Personal understanding is that MIND is the KEY for everything.
Love & rgds
 
zenzero

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend stephenw,

No-labels are better; just need *watchfulness* to understand.

Love & rgds
 
SugaCubez352

SugaCubez352

Member
" The mind is thought. Everything thought." - Willamena

"[...] THINKING!" - ZZ

I'm not arguing with anyone. I am just making an observation. I could be wrong and I leave myself open to correction, by those more wiser or insightful than I:

To say that "mind" is "thought" and that "thinking" is the essence of existence, to me - as I currently understand things - is like saying the mouth is the spoken word.

Because: although the mouth speak, it is not the source of the words being spoken. One does not pre-form; which is to say - think out; what we say when we talk to people. From where do these words come?

If the "mind" is "thought" then it cannot be "everything" or the fundamental source of everything, because the "mind" observes and beholds the thought. We do not pre-create what thought we think. They just flow from an unknown source into the "mind." It is only when such thoughts enters the "field of awareness" of "mind" that one becomes aware of the thinking or thought in the first place.

So to say that mind = thought; means that there is yet a deeper, more mysterious, unseen source of what Mind observes and becomes aware of - its thoughts. Therefore, "mind" cannot be everything, because it cannot be that which is the source of that which is observed by "mind."

If Mind = Everything; then it cannot be the thoughts it becomes aware of. What is the essential unseen source of our thoughts and words that flows thru us?

It may be hard to get what I am trying to say, unless you have sat still and genuinely become mindful of yourself when you think and speak. You realize that sentences and strings of already formed thoughts "just come out" of nowhere passing thru your mind and mouth without conscious effort to fabricate such thoughts and words.
 
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dust1n

dust1n

Zindīq
I have a few questions:

Extracted from Transform Your Life by Venerable Geshe Kelsang Gyatso said:
Some people think that the mind is the brain or some other part or function of the body, but this is incorrect. The brain is a physical object that can be seen with the eyes and that can be photographed or operated on in surgery.

The mind, on the other hand, is not a physical object. It cannot be seen with the eyes, nor can it be photographed or repaired by surgery. The brain, therefore, is not the mind but simply part of the body.

There is nothing within the body that can be identified as being our mind because our body and mind are different entities. For example, sometimes when our body is relaxed and immobile, our mind can be very busy, darting from one object to another. This indicates that our body and mind are not the same entity.
Click to expand...

This is a list of effects from brain damages to specific parts of the mind:


Frontal Lobe: Forehead
  • Loss of simple movement of various body parts (Paralysis).
  • Inability to plan a sequence of complex movements needed to complete multi-stepped tasks, such as making coffee (Sequencing).
  • Loss of spontaneity in interacting with others.
  • Loss of flexibility in thinking.
  • Persistence of a single thought (Perseveration).
  • Inability to focus on task (Attending).
  • Mood changes (Emotionally Labile).
  • Changes in social behavior.
  • Changes in personality.
  • Difficulty with problem solving.
  • Inability to express language (Broca's Aphasia).

Parietal Lobe: near the back and top of the head

  • Inability to attend to more than one object at a time.
  • Inability to name an object (Anomia).
  • Inability to locate the words for writing (Agraphia).
  • Problems with reading (Alexia).
  • Difficulty with drawing objects.
  • Difficulty in distinguishing left from right.
  • Difficulty with doing mathematics (Dyscalculia).
  • Lack of awareness of certain body parts and/or surrounding space (Apraxia) that leads to difficulties in self-care.
  • Inability to focus visual attention.
  • Difficulties with eye and hand coordination.

Occipital Lobes: most posterior, at the back of the head

  • Defects in vision (Visual Field Cuts).
  • Difficulty with locating objects in environment.
  • Difficulty with identifying colors (Color Agnosia).
  • Production of hallucinations.
  • Visual illusions - inaccurately seeing objects.
  • Word blindness - inability to recognize words.
  • Difficulty in recognizing drawn objects.
  • Inability to recognize the movement of object (Movement Agnosia).
  • Difficulties with reading and writing.

Temporal Lobes: side of head above ears

  • Difficulty in recognizing faces (Prosopagnosia).
  • Difficulty in understanding spoken words (Wernicke's Aphasia).
  • Disturbance with selective attention to what we see and hear.
  • Difficulty with identification of, and verbalization about objects.
  • Short term memory loss.
  • Interference with long term memory.
  • Increased and decreased interest in sexual behavior.
  • Inability to catagorize objects (Categorization).
  • Right lobe damage can cause persistent talking.
  • Increased aggressive behavior.

Brain Stem: deep within the brain

  • Decreased vital capacity in breathing, important for speech.
  • Swallowing food and water (Dysphagia).
  • Difficulty with organization/perception of the environment.
  • Problems with balance and movement.
  • Dizziness and nausea (Vertigo).
  • Sleeping difficulties (Insomnia, sleep apnea).
brain injury .com | Brain Trauma - Symptoms of Brain Injury


Though we can not physically view the mind, we can view a difference in one's behavior, cognition, and communications. To see someone like this, in my POV, one can observe a change in qualitative experience or the 'mind'. I can see recognizing 'mind' and 'body' as two separate entities, but how seperate are they? Is the mind somewhat attached to the body?


In Buddhist scriptures, our body is compared to a guest house and our mind to a guest dwelling within it. When we die, our mind leaves our body and goes to the next life, just like a guest leaving a guest house and going somewhere else.

If the mind is not the brain, nor any other part of the body, what is it? It is a formless continuum that functions to perceive and understand objects. Because the mind is formless, or non-physical, by nature, it is not obstructed by physical objects.
Click to expand...

In the case of brain damage, does the mind leave the body as it is under the brain damage, or does it resume to one of extra capabilities?

It is very important to be able to distinguish disturbed states of mind from peaceful states. As explained in the previous chapter, states of mind that disturb our inner peace, such as anger, jealousy, and desirous attachment, are called ‘delusions’; and these are the principal causes of all our suffering.

We may think that our suffering is caused by other people, by poor material conditions, or by society, but in reality it all comes from our own deluded states of mind. The essence of spiritual practice is to reduce and eventually to eradicate altogether our delusions, and to replace them with permanent inner peace. This is the real meaning of our human life.
Click to expand...

Ok, that is good. I agree a lot, but I don't like to thing it to 'the real meaning of our human life.' Everything else is very well stated.

The essential point of understanding the mind is that liberation from suffering cannot be found outside the mind. Permanent liberation can be found only by purifying the mind. Therefore, if we want to become free from problems and attain lasting peace and happiness we need to increase our knowledge and understanding of the mind.
Click to expand...

I can agree, But I wonder if the the liberation of the mind is permanent. Can the mind not get dirty again?
 
zenzero

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend SugaCubez,

Mind is the *KEY* to everythingness and nothingness.
Where does thoughts come from,
1. desires
2. environment
3. past karma
4. others? no idea!
Nirvana is attained when the mind is still i.e. no more thoughts arise in the mind.
That to happen one has to clear all the sources of thoughts as mentioned above.
You may pose any further question, if not followed.

Love & rgds
 
zenzero

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend dust1n,

Though we can not physically view the mind, we can view a difference in one's behavior, cognition, and communications. To see someone like this, in my POV, one can observe a change in qualitative experience or the 'mind'. I can see recognizing 'mind' and 'body' as two separate entities, but how seperate are they? Is the mind somewhat attached to the body?
Click to expand...

Whatever one may state it is at best a *pointer* as unless one experiences the same himself, it only remains as a piece of information or at best another THOUGHT.
The body may be affected / damaged but the mind remains untouched, yes the individual can allow that state of the body to affect the mind state as the sources of thoughts in the mind are mentioned above.

In the case of brain damage, does the mind leave the body as it is under the brain damage, or does it resume to one of extra capabilities?
Click to expand...
Though have no personal experience about it but as mentioned above it depends on the individual to be affected positively or negatively HOWEVER the idea is to be neutral and transcend all thoughts by meditation.

Ok, that is good. I agree a lot, but I don't like to thing it to 'the real meaning of our human life.' Everything else is very well stated.
Click to expand...
As mentioned before do not take anything stated to be the TRUTH but only as pointers to guide your mind towards that experience. The statement is made by someone who experience tells him so.

I can agree, But I wonder if the the liberation of the mind is permanent. Can the mind not get dirty again?
Click to expand...

The state of nirvana is when the mind itself drops and one is nothing but pure *CONSCIOUSNESS* then it means the form has evolved to a higher state and to come back to the earlier form it has to be the individual's own wish as he is no more guided by his past karmas which have all been eradicated.

Any further queries, do write.

Love & rgds
 
zenzero

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend Willamena,

I still "think" we are not seeing eye-to-eye, but it's the DIR so I'm out.
Click to expand...

Am personally willing to discuss and be open on any subject on any directory as personally everything [forms] are the same in different forms and understanding it is what it is all about.

Are you ready?

Love & rgds
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
What is the mind? It's "my" unbounded playground, wherein energy precipitates form.
 
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Morning Star Dhamma

Morning Star Dhamma

Member
fwiw, this thread's discussion reminds me of the opening of the Dhammapada:
Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts, suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.
Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with a pure mind a person speaks or acts, happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow.
Click to expand...
As translated by Acharya Buddharakkhita and found at Access to Insight. I'm too new here to post a link.

Metta
 
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