Morning Star Dhamma
Member
thanks!
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
What is the MIND
- Thread starter zenzero
- Start date
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
The pleasure is all mine.
Dorje
Ri-me
I have many of Geshe Kelsangs Books and Mind here is different that the usual eastern forms. The mind is located at the heart and there are many winds or rLung (yes there is an r before the L and its pronounced lung), which are the same as energy in Hinduism. On the winds float different thoughts, states of mind, memories, etc. In this line of thinking, the mind isnt formless. The mind is a subtle series of winds and "tubes" threw which the wind travels. There are three levels of the mind too. the Gross mind is the waking mind with thoughts and emotions, etc. The next is the subtle mind which is more peacefull and less full of mindstuff. The Very Subtle Mind perceives nothingness and is void.
only in the Zen and Dzogchen teachings, which Dzogchen was influenced by Ch'an or Zen, does thought cease. in the Gelug tradition there are many different states of mind, some with thoughts, others without. So we dont look for elimination of thought, just elimination of suffering. and i know others will dispute me on this, that thought creates suffering, and all that other stuff. But that is NOT accepted in the Gelug Tradition.
only in the Zen and Dzogchen teachings, which Dzogchen was influenced by Ch'an or Zen, does thought cease. in the Gelug tradition there are many different states of mind, some with thoughts, others without. So we dont look for elimination of thought, just elimination of suffering. and i know others will dispute me on this, that thought creates suffering, and all that other stuff. But that is NOT accepted in the Gelug Tradition.
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend Dorje,
Thanks you for sharing.
Personally am not a follower of any religious paths and so discussing about the importance of the MIND as far as *enlightenment* is concerned.
Traditions are based on individuals realizations and ability to show the same to others like Jesus never spoke of re-birth that does not mean that there is no re-birth except that he had limited time to spread his message and so he would have restricted his teachings to the basics which is the 10 commandments; likewise the tradition you speak off too may not speak of void or nothingness which is there on the cessation of thoughts as those who are intelligent they will understand besides their karma will automatically take them there once they reach to some understanding.
Love & rgds
Thanks you for sharing.
Personally am not a follower of any religious paths and so discussing about the importance of the MIND as far as *enlightenment* is concerned.
Traditions are based on individuals realizations and ability to show the same to others like Jesus never spoke of re-birth that does not mean that there is no re-birth except that he had limited time to spread his message and so he would have restricted his teachings to the basics which is the 10 commandments; likewise the tradition you speak off too may not speak of void or nothingness which is there on the cessation of thoughts as those who are intelligent they will understand besides their karma will automatically take them there once they reach to some understanding.
Love & rgds
spiritualseva
Member
so interesting...
joea
Oshoyoi
Mind is simply a combination of all the thoughts, of all the clouds. Mind has no independent nature of its own. When all the thoughts are gone and the sky is clean and clear, you will see that everything that you have paid so much attention to is nothing but emptiness. Your thoughts were all empty. They contained nothing, they were void. Whatever you thought they contained was your own energy. You have withdrawn your energy -- just the empty shell of the thought falls down. You have withdrawn your identity and immediately the thought is no longer alive. It was your identity that was giving it life force. And strangely enough, you thought that your thoughts were very strong and it was difficult to get rid of them! You were making them strong, you were cultivating them. Just by forcing them, you were getting into a fix.
Satans_Serrated_Edge
Deicidal
The mind is something the brain does. It isn't so much a thing as an activity.
Great post!
koan
Active Member
But the mind may cause activity in the Brain! Hmmmm
Satans_Serrated_Edge
Deicidal
Oops DIR forum. Bowing out...
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Yes. Right conditions are present of which makes mind possible. Mind "exists" because of right conditions, and is manifested by the activities and processes of the brain and as such, is definitely not self sustaining and independent. No brain=no mind. Of course, there also should be some familiarity of what mind is in terms of eastern and western thought, as to avoid unnecessary confusion over the terminology. I find Dorje and Joea explains the topic well enough here to suffice.
Buddhists and other Dharma brothers and sisters tend to be a bit more forgiving here in DIR. BTW Its a good observation, respectively made, and appreciate your input.
SugaCubez352
Member
I'm not trying to be all mystical and metaphysical but Buddha is Mind and Mind is Buddha, literally.
The original Sanskrit word "Buddhi" means "Mind." While the original Sanskrit word "Buddha" describes core functions of Mind such as: Consciousness, Awareness, Mindfulness, and Awakened... as opposed to being unconscious, unaware, and asleep.
This sheds some light on a few things. We can ask: What was the "Buddha" Awaken from (samma sambuddhassa)? Buddha was also said to have transcended samsara and was independent of bhavachakka. Perhaps Mind itself transcends the illusion of samsara and bhavachakka. But that we are alseep and dreaming and must Awaken: sambuddhi (Self-Awakening).
Buddha spent his first 25 or so years inside the illusions of his palace in which his father removed all of the unsightly aspects of human life... in the same way that the boy and people in Plato's cave allegory were born and raised in a cave. In the same sense that our Minds often spend its early moments in caves of ignorance or luxurious palaces of imaginary illusions such as religions.
It isn't until Buddha escapes that palace that he becomes Self-Enlightened... in the same way that the boy in the cave allegory was Self-Enlightened when he came outside his cave to figure our the Cause [kamma] of the dancing shadows he was born and raised seeing on his cave wall. In the same sense that it is not until the Mind has left its cave of ignorance... its dependence on old cavemen to interpret the dancing shadows... its enchantment of the illusions and flowery words of religion, that Mind is able to work on it's own Self-Enlightenment.
What is Mind?
Mind is that which is born in a cave of ignorance. It is that which finds itself enthralled inside the opulent palaces of one religion to another. It is that which must one day liberate itself from the ignorance and delusions that it was once lost in. Once Liberated and Freed, Mind is that which tries to find and know itself and understand its own nature. From focusing its mindful awareness and concentration on the Foundation of Logos does Mind begin to Realize it's own Nature and Reality.
Besides meaning the Doctrine of Buddha, some of the original meanings of the word Dhamma were: "Foundation"... "That which Upholds"... "Constitution."
Dhamma is the Foundation, or fundamental principle, ethos, and way of Nature/Reality... the "Law" or constitutional principles that Upholds the superstructure of Nature and Reality. In this context, Dhamma is the Logos of Heraclitus and the Tao of Lao Tzu.
Mind is that which once laid that Foundation. Mind is that which experiences what that Foundation Updholds: Nature/Reality. Mind is that which has become engrossed and lost in it's own creation. In the end, Mind Realizes that It Is the Foundation upon which everything else rests. Thus does it genuinely Realize itself: Sambodhi (self-realization). Having realized it is the foundation and not the form, it experiences Nibbana, when it realizes that it is not the form but that which the form arises. Thus it is outside of samsara and the illusion of forms.
The original Sanskrit word "Buddhi" means "Mind." While the original Sanskrit word "Buddha" describes core functions of Mind such as: Consciousness, Awareness, Mindfulness, and Awakened... as opposed to being unconscious, unaware, and asleep.
This sheds some light on a few things. We can ask: What was the "Buddha" Awaken from (samma sambuddhassa)? Buddha was also said to have transcended samsara and was independent of bhavachakka. Perhaps Mind itself transcends the illusion of samsara and bhavachakka. But that we are alseep and dreaming and must Awaken: sambuddhi (Self-Awakening).
Buddha spent his first 25 or so years inside the illusions of his palace in which his father removed all of the unsightly aspects of human life... in the same way that the boy and people in Plato's cave allegory were born and raised in a cave. In the same sense that our Minds often spend its early moments in caves of ignorance or luxurious palaces of imaginary illusions such as religions.
It isn't until Buddha escapes that palace that he becomes Self-Enlightened... in the same way that the boy in the cave allegory was Self-Enlightened when he came outside his cave to figure our the Cause [kamma] of the dancing shadows he was born and raised seeing on his cave wall. In the same sense that it is not until the Mind has left its cave of ignorance... its dependence on old cavemen to interpret the dancing shadows... its enchantment of the illusions and flowery words of religion, that Mind is able to work on it's own Self-Enlightenment.
What is Mind?
Mind is that which is born in a cave of ignorance. It is that which finds itself enthralled inside the opulent palaces of one religion to another. It is that which must one day liberate itself from the ignorance and delusions that it was once lost in. Once Liberated and Freed, Mind is that which tries to find and know itself and understand its own nature. From focusing its mindful awareness and concentration on the Foundation of Logos does Mind begin to Realize it's own Nature and Reality.
Besides meaning the Doctrine of Buddha, some of the original meanings of the word Dhamma were: "Foundation"... "That which Upholds"... "Constitution."
Dhamma is the Foundation, or fundamental principle, ethos, and way of Nature/Reality... the "Law" or constitutional principles that Upholds the superstructure of Nature and Reality. In this context, Dhamma is the Logos of Heraclitus and the Tao of Lao Tzu.
Mind is that which once laid that Foundation. Mind is that which experiences what that Foundation Updholds: Nature/Reality. Mind is that which has become engrossed and lost in it's own creation. In the end, Mind Realizes that It Is the Foundation upon which everything else rests. Thus does it genuinely Realize itself: Sambodhi (self-realization). Having realized it is the foundation and not the form, it experiences Nibbana, when it realizes that it is not the form but that which the form arises. Thus it is outside of samsara and the illusion of forms.
Last edited:
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend Sugacubex,
Just an addition to the above posts:
Our friend Satan_Serrated_Edge mentioned
No brain = no mind!
Well taking the word Buddha which comes from the root *buddh* which you have explained.
Two other words that are co-related and comes from the same root word are Buddhi or intelligence and so friend SSE is correct that no brain= no mind is also correct but that state is termed BUDDHU or a fool; so we can see the following:
Buddi fully realised becomes awakened is buddha
and buddhi unutilised is buddhu [fool]
Love & rgds
Just an addition to the above posts:
Our friend Satan_Serrated_Edge mentioned
No brain = no mind!
Well taking the word Buddha which comes from the root *buddh* which you have explained.
Two other words that are co-related and comes from the same root word are Buddhi or intelligence and so friend SSE is correct that no brain= no mind is also correct but that state is termed BUDDHU or a fool; so we can see the following:
Buddi fully realised becomes awakened is buddha
and buddhi unutilised is buddhu [fool]
Love & rgds
SugaCubez352
Member
LOL... I did not know Buddhu means a Fool!?
No brain=no Mind
I agree with SSE's statement... to a certain point. It is like saying:
No Seed=No Apple
No Egg=No Chicken
No Caterpillar=No Butterfly
No Upasaka=No Arahato
No Mind=No Buddha
No Baby=No Old Man
So the "Mind" - as I see it - is like that. First it begins its life as a caterpillar on a tomato plant. You kill the caterpillar and no butterfly develops.
So can we say that because no butterfly develops because we killed the caterpillar, that thus the two are the same thing?
This is only true from a limited perspective. Because in time, when the caterpillar has enough time to grow, it changes form - becoming something different - and flies away from its old home.
To me I believe the earth is a garden, and the brain is a seed... after 100 years of germination, the Mind grows from that seed and flies away like dandelion puffs.
Last edited:
joea
Oshoyoi
First time for me as well....."Buddha means fool"..lol
joea
Oshoyoi
Yes, my compliments... which words did I mixed up ?