What is the Point of Hell?

[The Sum of Awe]

If you believe in hell, especially if you believe it is eternal, what is its purpose? A person may learn by punishment that what they did was wrong, but it hardly makes a difference if this punishment is never ending. Once in hell, there's no need to worry about them sinning any longer, their sin will no longer have effect on the innocent.

I've also heard that hell is to keep the sinners out of heaven, causing chaos. If that were truly the case, why not delete their soul from existence instead of making them suffer? Or perhaps isolate them from the rest of heaven? Perhaps even have them reincarnate until they get it right...

To me it seems rather harsh and pointless.

 

[Skwim]

If you believe in hell, especially if you believe it is eternal, what is its purpose? A person may learn by punishment that what they did was wrong, but it hardly makes a difference if this punishment is never ending. Once in hell, there's no need to worry about them sinning any longer, their sin will no longer have effect on the innocent.

I've also heard that hell is to keep the sinners out of heaven, causing chaos. If that were truly the case, why not delete their soul from existence instead of making them suffer? Or perhaps isolate them from the rest of heaven? Perhaps even have them reincarnate until they get it right...

To me it seems rather harsh and pointless.

Yeah. Trying to make sense of religious doctrines and beliefs can sometimes be a real :banghead3

 

[arcanum]

The concept of hell was largely developed by the Catholic church, what tremendous and devious tool of control and compliance.

 

[InChrist]

If you believe in hell, especially if you believe it is eternal, what is its purpose? A person may learn by punishment that what they did was wrong, but it hardly makes a difference if this punishment is never ending. Once in hell, there's no need to worry about them sinning any longer, their sin will no longer have effect on the innocent.

I've also heard that hell is to keep the sinners out of heaven, causing chaos. If that were truly the case, why not delete their soul from existence instead of making them suffer? Or perhaps isolate them from the rest of heaven? Perhaps even have them reincarnate until they get it right...

To me it seems rather harsh and pointless.

I think the point of eternal hell is twofold: 1) as you mentioned above...to isolate those who have permanently given themselves over to evil and 2) to give them their desire to be separated from God... forever.

 

[InChrist]

The concept of hell was largely developed by the Catholic church, what tremendous and devious tool of control and compliance.

It was not developed by the Catholic Church. It is a biblical teaching, especially taught by Jesus because to save humans from hell and eternal separation from God is His main mission as Savior.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Yeah. Trying to make sense of religious doctrines and beliefs can sometimes be a real :banghead3

It usually seems like that. The questions put up are usually not answered; the question is asked, the holder of the doctrine gives an answer that makes no sense, the questioner begins to debate that answer, the holder gives another answer that makes no sense, and the questioner begins to debate THAT answer... etc. all the way down.

Not just the religious, but the same goes for politics, for non-religious people, etc. One of the most useful rules in algebra that people forget to use in real world experiences is taking the final conclusion and plugging it back into the equation.

 

[Quintessence]

It was not developed by the Catholic Church. It is a biblical teaching, especially taught by Jesus because to save humans from hell and eternal separation from God is His main mission as Savior.

If I understand what you say here correctly, you would interpret hell as separation from God? What is being separated from God like? Or, perhaps more to the point, what about separation is considered undesirable?

 

[dantech]

If you believe in hell, especially if you believe it is eternal, what is its purpose? A person may learn by punishment that what they did was wrong, but it hardly makes a difference if this punishment is never ending. Once in hell, there's no need to worry about them sinning any longer, their sin will no longer have effect on the innocent.

I've also heard that hell is to keep the sinners out of heaven, causing chaos. If that were truly the case, why not delete their soul from existence instead of making them suffer? Or perhaps isolate them from the rest of heaven? Perhaps even have them reincarnate until they get it right...

To me it seems rather harsh and pointless.

There are many in Judaism who believe in precisely what you said.

a) that it is not eternal, and eventually leads to heaven.
b) that many reincarnate to give them another (sometimes multiple) chance.
c) it is seen more as a cleansing place, rather than a place where we are destined to suffer forever.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

1) as you mentioned above...to isolate those who have permanently given themselves over to evil

As stated, there are plenty of other ways to isolate these people that do not include torture or punishment.

2) to give them their desire to be separated from God... forever.

That's a little unfair, don't you think? It's not that people sin because they desire being separated from God, some might, but not always the case. People sin because they are not convinced. God has never directly revealed himself, with the exception of the early mystics who wrote about him, because an age-old book is not a reliable source of evidence when you consider it or at least some parts of it, COULD be lies.

And with that, it is not about choosing to be separated from God. One has no freewill of choosing follower of God, and with that a denier of God, because most are unaware of its existence.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

If I understand what you say here correctly, you would interpret hell as separation from God? What is being separated from God like? Or, perhaps more to the point, what about separation is considered undesirable?

Neat question. I feel bad for not asking that before I went ahead and replied

 

[InChrist]

If I understand what you say here correctly, you would interpret hell as separation from God? What is being separated from God like? Or, perhaps more to the point, what about separation is considered undesirable?

I think the scriptures and the words of Jesus are pretty clear, at least as I read them, that being separated form God is suffering and torment. I don't believe this torment is a result of God actively tormenting or causing pain for anyone, but is brought about by the separation from God who is the very source of all that sustains life. Not unlike the state of torment a fish would experience separated out of the life sustaining water it was meant to live in. Except that the fish would eventually die, but I believe humans created in God's image are eternal so this state of separation means the suffering is therefore eternal.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

There are many in Judaism who believe in precisely what you said.

a) that it is not eternal, and eventually leads to heaven.
b) that many reincarnate to give them another (sometimes multiple) chance.
c) it is seen more as a cleansing place, rather than a place where we are destined to suffer forever.

Interesting, thanks for the info!

Are these beliefs drawn from scriptures or traditions, or are they simply what some Jewish people believe and nowhere to be found in Judaism's tenets.

Off-topic but I always wanted to know: How do Jews view Satan?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I think the scriptures and the words of Jesus are pretty clear, at least as I read them, that being separated form God is suffering and torment. I don't believe this torment is a result of God actively tormenting or causing pain for anyone, but is brought about by the separation from God who is the very source of all that sustains life. Not unlike the state of torment a fish would experience separated out of the life sustaining water it was meant to live in. Except that the fish would eventually die, but I believe humans created in God's image are eternal so this state of separation means the suffering is therefore eternal.

Wow, nice example with the fish. This is very interesting.

However, your first sentence "I think the scriptures and the words of Jesus are pretty clear", I had a question about: If it is clear why so much disagreement in the Christian community? I'm not doubting that you could understand it easily, but I don't think it should be called clear when there are truckloads of interpretations.

 

[InChrist]

As stated, there are plenty of other ways to isolate these people that do not include torture or punishment.

Since you are not the All-knowing God I don't believe you can rightly say there are plenty of other ways to isolate people. Ithink the main problem is that you really don't understand how awful it will be to be separated from God.

That's a little unfair, don't you think? It's not that people sin because they desire being separated from God, some might, but not always the case. People sin because they are not convinced. God has never directly revealed himself, with the exception of the early mystics who wrote about him, because an age-old book is not a reliable source of evidence when you consider it or at least some parts of it, COULD be lies.

And with that, it is not about choosing to be separated from God. One has no freewill of choosing follower of God, and with that a denier of God, because most are unaware of its existence.

[/QUOTE]

That's not the way I see it. I think God has given everyone an awareness of His existence and reminds people repeatedly of this, yet they choose to ignore that awareness so that they can do as they please and need not feel accountable to God's authority. The Bible will prove it's reliability to any honest seeker, IMO, and the scriptures are filled with language to the effect that people are called to choose and to believe so I find no reality in the concept that no one has freewill.

 

[InChrist]

Wow, nice example with the fish. This is very interesting.

However, your first sentence "I think the scriptures and the words of Jesus are pretty clear", I had a question about: If it is clear why so much disagreement in the Christian community? I'm not doubting that you could understand it easily, but I don't think it should be called clear when there are truckloads of interpretations.

That is a good question and point about the disagreements in the Christian community. All I can say is that the words of the scriptures are clear, but the various teaching of denominations and groups of Christians have often become doctrines of men. This probably occurs because too often even Christians like to ignore God and make up their own beliefs or incorporate other teachings besides those of the scriptures alone.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Since you are not the All-knowing God I don't believe you can rightly say there are plenty of other ways to isolate people. Ithink the main problem is that you really don't understand how awful it will be to be separated from God.

Logic dictates that there are more ways, though. One example is the destruction of the sinner's soul; it'll not be as traumatic as eternal torture. Another would be reincarnation until they get it right. Or maybe they could go to heaven but lose the rights to freewill.

That's not the way I see it. I think God has given everyone an awareness of His existence and reminds people repeatedly of this, yet they choose to ignore that awareness so that they can do as they please and need not feel accountable to God's authority. The Bible will prove it's reliability to any honest seeker, IMO, and the scriptures are filled with language to the effect that people are called to choose and to believe so I find no reality in the concept that no one has freewill.

What about the honest seeking atheists or non-believers in this specific religion, that do good deeds?

By direct I mean - constantly intervening, using miracles that are obvious to humans, spawning a new creature from nothing, everyone knows of his existence like an announcement speaker.

But it clearly is not directly obvious, considering all of the skeptics being unconvinced. Heck, some religious people end up questioning their religion. It isn't about denying him for a reason to sin, it's about the very little, camouflaged signs that are expected to be notice. Point is, if God actually is revealed, it's too little at a time to actually convince the common skeptic.

 

[arcanum]

It was not developed by the Catholic Church. It is a biblical teaching, especially taught by Jesus because to save humans from hell and eternal separation from God is His main mission as Savior.

Why do you suppose Paul never mentioned hell in any of his writings? I think Jesus, if he really did actually refer to hell he probably didn't have burning for all of enternity in mind. We don't know what he actually said on the subject because the gospels are far from reliable and have been heavily edited. I don't think any Jews of the second temple period believed in eternal hell fire for the dead. This came later, construed by the fathers of the church, when they were hammering out the doctrines and dogma' s of the Christian faith.

 

[Sleeppy]

When people are allowed to believe that their will originates with themselves- they assume credit for their actions, and place blame. Self-righteousness is a result of belief in free will; or the ego. If these people do something good, it is because they decided to, not because God causes reality. Out of ignorance they call themselves gods, and call God's creations eternal mistakes.

 

[sun rise]

C. S. Lewis' book, The Great Divorce, to me is a wonderful explanation of hell. Hell occurs when someone clings to something rather than enter heaven. Someone is in hell until he or she let's go of the attachment. In this story even a theologian and a so-called lover are stuck in hell. The one that gets free is the lustful person who decides to renounce lust.

 

[dantech]

Interesting, thanks for the info!

Are these beliefs drawn from scriptures or traditions, or are they simply what some Jewish people believe and nowhere to be found in Judaism's tenets.

Off-topic but I always wanted to know: How do Jews view Satan?

There is very little to be found about the afterlife in Jewish scripture simply because we focus primarily on our time in this life, rather than the next.

There is some information to be pulled from the book of Job, and most of the information originated in the Zohar which is the Jewish Mysticism book.

As for Satan, we believe he is an Angel of God whose purpose is to tempt us into sin. By creating him, God created free will as well. Without temptation, there is no free will.