What is the Point of Hell?

[Skwim]

C. S. Lewis' book, The Great Divorce, to me is a wonderful explanation of hell. Hell occurs when someone clings to something rather than enter heaven. Someone is in hell until he or she let's go of the attachment. In this story even a theologian and a so-called lover are stuck in hell. The one that gets free is the lustful person who decides to renounce lust.

So, obviously a just god would make one aware of this little requirement: Cling to X or enter heaven; your choice. Gotta wonder why anyone preferring heaven would opt to cling to X, particularly if it's a hellish existence. So my thought is that anyone not choosing heaven simply prefers their X over heaven, in which case they're in their own heaven of sorts, or heaven was not adequately explained.

 

[Thana]

If you believe in hell, especially if you believe it is eternal, what is its purpose? A person may learn by punishment that what they did was wrong, but it hardly makes a difference if this punishment is never ending. Once in hell, there's no need to worry about them sinning any longer, their sin will no longer have effect on the innocent.

I've also heard that hell is to keep the sinners out of heaven, causing chaos. If that were truly the case, why not delete their soul from existence instead of making them suffer? Or perhaps isolate them from the rest of heaven? Perhaps even have them reincarnate until they get it right...

To me it seems rather harsh and pointless.

It's Justice, Ultimate Justice.

When someone is so wronged in this world, We all cry out for Justice, And it's usually never answered or if it is, It's never enough. But for some reason, We bring the concept of Justice into the afterlife, And people hate it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Hell is basically a state of being separated from God, which is the chief torment thereof. It's not so much a punishment as it is a consequence of choices. God wills all to Him but some people don't want that. They have chosen to separate themselves from Him and since God leaves the decision in our hands, He allows them to go their own way.

I tend to lean towards universal reconciliation, myself. I certainly hope and pray that all creatures will eventually be reconciled to God. I'm not really sold on the apparent idea that free will and the ability to make choices ends after death. If Satan decided to turn against God and was thrown out of Heaven, why can't a sinner in hell change their mind, repent to God and return to Him? I mean, we believe that angels are creatures with free will, even now. It's just that the ones in Heaven have made the choice to obey God rather than follow after Satan's example. So I think it's certainly a possibility that all will be saved eventually.

 

[adi2d]

It's Justice, Ultimate Justice.

When someone is so wronged in this world, We all cry out for Justice, And it's usually never answered or if it is, It's never enough. But for some reason, We bring the concept of Justice into the afterlife, And people hate it.

An infinite punishment for a finite crime is NOT justice





IMO

 

[Sunstone]

Punishment, so far as I know, is relatively ineffective as a means of rehabilitation. So whatever purpose hell has, it is unlikely to be rehabilitation.

Personally, I think the purpose of hell is to satisfy the need so many people have for what they call "justice", and what might more properly be called revenge.

 

[ChristineES]

There are many in Judaism who believe in precisely what you said.

a) that it is not eternal, and eventually leads to heaven.
b) that many reincarnate to give them another (sometimes multiple) chance.
c) it is seen more as a cleansing place, rather than a place where we are destined to suffer forever.

This is the most reasonable response that I've seen and it is also what I've been beginning to believe, as well. In some of the books of the prophets, God has the prophet putting a burning coal to his lips to purify what he says. I noticed this in Isaiah and Ezekiel. I doubt they really burned their lips, but instead was symbolic or something. I really don't know what it means, to tell you the truth.

 

[Thana]

An infinite punishment for a finite crime is NOT justice

Who said these crimes were finite?

Punishment, so far as I know, is relatively ineffective as a means of rehabilitation. So whatever purpose hell has, it is unlikely to be rehabilitation.

Personally, I think the purpose of hell is to satisfy the need so many people have for what they call "justice", and what might more properly be called revenge.

So.. putting murderers in jail is to you, revenge?

Okie dokie then.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

It's Justice, Ultimate Justice.

When someone is so wronged in this world, We all cry out for Justice, And it's usually never answered or if it is, It's never enough. But for some reason, We bring the concept of Justice into the afterlife, And people hate it.

What actually comes out of this justice? People burn and scream forever, and that is the only thing it causes. Is there anything that is actually useful that comes out of this justice?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Hell is basically a state of being separated from God, which is the chief torment thereof. It's not so much a punishment as it is a consequence of choices. God wills all to Him but some people don't want that. They have chosen to separate themselves from Him and since God leaves the decision in our hands, He allows them to go their own way.

Can you blame them though? It's not any clearer than mud that God exists, it's not any clearer than mud of what morals one should have, and if you decide to have both, it's not quite clear.

Perhaps if God didn't separate them from himself their actions would have changed to something better.

I tend to lean towards universal reconciliation, myself. I certainly hope and pray that all creatures will eventually be reconciled to God. I'm not really sold on the apparent idea that free will and the ability to make choices ends after death. If Satan decided to turn against God and was thrown out of Heaven, why can't a sinner in hell change their mind, repent to God and return to Him? I mean, we believe that angels are creatures with free will, even now. It's just that the ones in Heaven have made the choice to obey God rather than follow after Satan's example. So I think it's certainly a possibility that all will be saved eventually.

If freewill exists in heaven, then evil exists in heaven. If evil doesn't exist in heaven, then evil is no longer a choice and thus freewill is tossed out like trash.

 

[Sleeppy]

Who said these crimes were finite?



So.. putting murderers in jail is to you, revenge?

Okie dokie then.

We're talking about mental illnesses-- and you do not know. The Son of Man did not come to condemn the world; neither should the sons of Adam condemn one another. If their is condemnation without reconciliation, Abel will continue to be killed and his blood will continue crying to God from the ground.

 

[Thana]

What actually comes out of this justice? People burn and scream forever, and that is the only thing it causes. Is there anything that is actually useful that comes out of this justice?

Justice doesn't always have to have an end, Or a result. It's just balance.

 

[adi2d]

Who said these crimes were finite?



So.. putting murderers in jail is to you, revenge?

Okie dokie then.

Man is finite. Whatever we do is finite. Supposedly hell is infinite. Am I wrong?

 

[Awkward Fingers]

Justice doesn't always have to have an end, Or a result. It's just balance.

That is the very antithesis of balance...
There is literally nothing you could do, in a hundred year or so long life, that would warrant an ETERNITY of punishment.
An eternity.. That is literally the farthest thing from justice or balance that you could possibly have, I would think.

If you can think of anything less balanced in justice than that, please let me know.

How many 100 yr lifetimes can you fit in infinity?

 

[Thana]

That is the very antithesis of balance...
There is literally nothing you could do, in a hundred year or so long life, that would warrant an ETERNITY of punishment.
An eternity.. That is literally the farthest thing from justice or balance that you could possibly have, I would think.

If you can think of anything less balanced in justice than that, please let me know.

How many 100 yr lifetimes can you fit in infinity?

That's your opinion.
I think a lot of people would beg to differ.

It's not the antithesis of balance, Because what is the balance of a crime so awful?
What is just for those who are in Boko Haram? Or Al Qaeda? Mass murderers, Rapists, Slavers, and so on and so on. What about Hitler, He killed 6 millions Jews. Is his death justice enough? Not even close, imo.

Man is finite. Whatever we do is finite. Supposedly hell is infinite. Am I wrong?

I guess this is where we reach an impasse, Because I believe man is an eternal spirtual being. So no, not finite.

 

[Awkward Fingers]

That's your opinion.
I think a lot of people would beg to differ.

It's not the antithesis of balance, Because what is the balance of a crime so awful?
What is just for those who are in Boko Haram? Or Al Qaeda? Mass murderers, Rapists, Slavers, and so on and so on. What about Hitler, He killed 6 millions Jews. Is his death justice enough? Not even close, imo.

You could wrap up every group you just listed into one person, and I wouldn't say they deserved INFINITE punishment.
A few thousand years of screaming burning agony? Sure.
multiply that by another thousand, a few million years? Maybe.
Take that entire duration, of millions of years, and multiply that by every single second of their victims lives? Trillions of years of agony? TRILLIONS well..maybe..
now chart those trillions of years of punishment against what you think is "just", and it wouldn't even show up as a speck on that chart..

Infinite punishment is sadistic and insane, and absolutely unjustified, ever, to be called just out fair, no matter who its for.

That can never be defined as just or balanced

 

[Thana]

You could wrap up every group you just listed into one person, and I wouldn't say they deserved INFINITE punishment.
A few thousand years of screaming burning agony? Sure.
multiply that by another thousand, a few million years? Maybe.
Take that entire duration, of millions of years, and multiply that by every single second of their victims lives? Trillions of years of agony? TRILLIONS well..maybe..
now chart those trillions of years of punishment against what you think is "just", and it wouldn't even show up as a speck on that chart..

Infinite punishment is sadistic and insane, and absolutely unjustified, ever, to be called just out fair, no matter who its for.

That can never be defined as just or balanced

There's this saying that, In the right circumstance, Everyone is capable of just about anything.

I think that is true. But no matter what we may do, We'll never think it's right. So if I am forced to kill someone, I'll never ever think it was the right thing to do, Regardless.

I think that can apply to bad things and bad people. No matter what you do, They'll never see what they did as wrong, And they'll always be prepared to do it again.

So how do you believe people who are never sorry, never repentant, never changing, should be dealt with? Their hearts will forever be, in a sense, evil. So how do you justify a finite sentence?

 

[Awkward Fingers]

There's this saying that, In the right circumstance, Everyone is capable of just about anything.

I think that is true. But no matter what we may do, We'll never think it's right. So if I am forced to kill someone, I'll never ever think it was the right thing to do, Regardless.

I think that can apply to bad things and bad people. No matter what you do, They'll never see what they did as wrong, And they'll always be prepared to do it again.

So how do you believe people who are never sorry, never repentant, never changing, should be dealt with? Their hearts will forever be, in a sense, evil. So how do you justify a finite sentence?

by applying a punishment that fits the crime.

If they will be forever evil, do they not have free will? Did god intentionally make them just for the fun of punishing them?
And should people be punished for crimes they haven't committed, or even thought of yet? They just deserve it because "why not"
If they cannot ever change, hoe does that compare to the idea of free will

 

[Thana]

by applying a punishment that fits the crime.

If they will be forever evil, do they not have free will? Did god intentionally make them just for the fun of punishing them?
And should people be punished for crimes they haven't committed, or even thought of yet? They just deserve it because "why not"
If they cannot ever change, hoe does that compare to the idea of free will

It is free will, They're forever evil because they're forever evil. They're not made to be that way, They choose that way, Their heart is that way because they made it that way.

You're not coming at this from a theistic perspective. God knows, He knows everything you'll ever do or think or say. He can judge you without error. Whatever punishment you recieve, You deserve. No more no less.

 

[adi2d]

That's your opinion.
I think a lot of people would beg to differ.




I guess this is where we reach an impasse, Because I believe man is an eternal spirtual being. So no, not finite.[/QUOTE

Ok. The crimes we do here on earth (tes even hitler)are what determines heaven or hell. So that is a finite time.

I don't know thar hell ie eternal or not. Just going by the op

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Man is finite. Whatever we do is finite. Supposedly hell is infinite. Am I wrong?

Infinite and eternal are not the same things.