What Is The Purpose Of Baptism?

[Mister Emu]

The purpose of baptism is the conferral of grace upon the baptized and their entry into the kingdom of God. God's grace and kingdom are open to people of all ages, so there is no meaningful difference between an infant baptism and that of an adult.

 

[Cooky]

Why would you say that? The water is an integral part of baptism. It is the full immersion, not just a sprinkling or making the sign of the cross on an infants forehead. That is meaningless ritual. The scriptures make it clear that a believing parent has their young children covered by their own faith, making an often insincere ritual unnecessary. It is a church tradition (like many others) that finds no basis in the Bible.

Jesus' baptism, like all who volunteered to be publicly baptised, was by full immersion.....it was a symbolic 'death' to a former lifecourse and a 'resurrection' to a new life of dedication to God. This was to affect every aspect of a Christian's life. In all things, God's will was to take precedence over our own.

No one can dedicate our life to God but us. And we do this of our own free will in full knowledge of what it means from that day forward. It isn't simply a 'spiritual insurance policy'. If you don't pay the premium, (i.e. to put in the effort to live a Christ-like life every day) you are not covered.

Still, the bible says no man can enter heaven until he has received water baptism and the Holy Spirit.

...So I'm baptizing my children. And the Catholic Church is happy to do it.

 

[Deeje]

Still, the bible says no man can enter heaven until he has received water baptism and the Holy Spirit.

Well, you see that is just another problem.....God was never going to take humans to heaven in the first place. He already had a large spiritual family of spirit creatures in heaven, so he created material creatures to live forever on earth.

Read the Genesis account and tell me whether there was any natural cause of death mentioned in Eden? The only way to die was to disobey God. They did, and passed on the death sentence to all of us. (Romans 5:12) It was the reason why Jesus came to offer his life....so that we could get back what Adam and his wife threw away.

There were two trees in the garden...one was "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil"...and the other was "the tree of life". One was off limits, but the other was not...UNTIL they disobeyed. The tree of life was their means to live forever on earth, but now IT was off limits because humans would experience the death penalty for their disobedience.

The only reason why some humans are chosen for a heavenly inheritance is because they have been chosen by God for that role. They are a limited number and their assignment is to assist Christ in his role as redeemer and High Priest for those who prove worthy of life.
The way to prove worthy of life is to live as Christ lived.....to obey all that he taught....not because someone sprinkled water on your head as an infant. Jesus was our exemplar and he was baptized as an adult, in full knowledge of what it meant.

The 'chosen ones' will rule with Jesus as kings and priests. (Revelation 20:6) They are the ones "baptized into Christ" meaning that they would experience death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit. (1 Peter 3:18)

Since rulers need subjects, and sinners need priests to interceded for them, the ones ruled by Jesus and his "joint-heirs" are not in heaven.....they are right here on earth. Those who go to heaven are not burdened by sin and have been granted immortality. These are the "bride of Christ" seen bringing the blessings of the kingdom to redeemed mankind. (Revelation 21:2-4) This is the Kingdom that Jesus taught us to pray for. The means by which sin can be removed and we can be reconciled with God.

...So I'm baptizing my children. And the Catholic Church is happy to do it.

That is more sadly true than you know. It means that your church has no idea what baptism really means.
But you are free to choose whatever appeals to your own sensibilities. I am just telling you what the Bible says in case you are interested....

 

[Valjean]

So why were creatures dying for billions of years before there were any humans to disobey God and bring death into the world?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

New That's question number one.

Why not go to a church with your questions? No doubt you'll have more productive conversations and learn far more than you will here.

 

[Skwim]

Why not go to a church with your questions? No doubt you'll have more productive conversations and learn far more than you will here.

Evidently you don't think much of RF members. I do.

,

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Evidently you don't think much of RF members. I do.

,

I think I put more value on going straight to the source. In this case, not only those who have extensive study and experience in church things, but also the lack of static and other distractions and stuff going on here.

 

[sealchan]

That's question number one.

Secondly, is there any meaningful difference between infant baptism and adult baptism; that is, does one confer something the other doesn't?

.

Baptism is a ritual that is a kind of weak knockoff of what rituals used to be. For a brief moment you let someone else control your ability to breathe. That puts you through a state of anxiety that forces you to contemplate two things: your mortality and, in this case, your need for God to save you. The person who dunks you stands in for death and God simultaneously and they mildly direct your experience of death and salvation by putting your head underwater and pulling it out again.

In this view infant baptism is a further corruption of the ritual as the infant will not be able to understand any of this. Without that understanding the only value would be to the parents and community who have lost sight of the ritual as a meaningful personal experience and see it only as a symbolic thing you do to maintain your status in a club.

 

[syo]

That's question number one.

Secondly, is there any meaningful difference between infant baptism and adult baptism; that is, does one confer something the other doesn't?

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Baptism is rebirth.

Adult baptism is the best. Infant baptism is good for the parents. The baby doesn't understand.

 

[Muffled]

That's question number one.

Secondly, is there any meaningful difference between infant baptism and adult baptism; that is, does one confer something the other doesn't?

.

14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” 15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.”

 

[Muffled]

Some days I just need a good bath.

I beieve it will never get the blood off your hands.

 

[Muffled]

I could never figure it out myself when I was a Christian. It was just another vague vapid ritual that nobody really knew what it was all about or what it meant.

I mean what's the point of Jesus getting baptized by John the Baptist?

Jesus hadn't 'died' yet and it all comes across as a pretty meaningless thing when you put the narratives into perspective.

Some people argue it as a requirement for salvation while others do not see it as a requirement for salvation.

Eventually I put it all down as nonsense.

I could put black holes down as nonsense because I believe I don't understand them but I believe I don't.

 

[Skwim]

Baptism is a ritual that is a kind of weak knockoff of what rituals used to be. For a brief moment you let someone else control your ability to breathe. That puts you through a state of anxiety that forces you to contemplate two things: your mortality and, in this case, your need for God to save you. The person who dunks you stands in for death and God simultaneously and they mildly direct your experience of death and salvation by putting your head underwater and pulling it out again.

In this view infant baptism is a further corruption of the ritual as the infant will not be able to understand any of this. Without that understanding the only value would be to the parents and community who have lost sight of the ritual as a meaningful personal experience and see it only as a symbolic thing you do to maintain your status in a club.

Interesting.

Thanks.

.

 

[Skwim]

14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” 15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.”

What does that mean, "to fulfill all righteousness"?

.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Still, the bible says no man can enter heaven until he has received water baptism and the Holy Spirit.......

First, I find there was No baptism for people who died before Christ died.
That is why even King David did Not ascend as per Acts of the Apostles 2:34.
By saying 'No man' is Not the same as saying No children or No minors.
Only 'adults' that fit the category of Luke 22:28-30 about who can be resurrected to heaven.
They have a first or earlier resurrection over the rest of resurrected mankind.- Revelation 20:6
In other words, the majority of mankind (John 3:13) can have a happy-and-physical resurrection back to life on Earth.
The figurative living ' sheep ' of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 are alive on Earth at this soon coming ' time of separation ' to take place on Earth.
Those 'sheep' do Not go to heaven, but can remain alive on earth right through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9 to become part of the humble meek people who will inherit the earth as per Psalms 37:9-11.
The earthly realm of God's kingdom (Daniel 2:44) will govern over earth for a thousand years under Christ as king of God's kingdom government over earth, or over earthly subjects or citizens of God's kingdom.
- 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So why were creatures dying for billions of years before there were any humans to disobey God and bring death into the world?

God never granted everlasting life to any earthly creation before the creation of mankind.
In other words, before Adam everlasting life was not granted or gifted to lower creation.
Plus, Adam could only retain everlasting life if he obeyed God's Law.
Adam by disobedience lost his everlasting life.
Adam thus lost his healthy human perfection, and passed down to us is his fallen state.
Since we are all innocent of what father Adam passed down to us is why God sent Jesus to earth for us.
Since we can't stop sinning we die. We can resurrect oneself or another.
So, we need someone who can resurrect us. A sinless Jesus can and will - Revelation 1:18.
A sinless Jesus could balance the ' scales of justice ' for us by being a ransom for what Adam did.
So, faithful Jesus proved that Adam could have proved faithful to his God.
Adam under favorable conditions proved unfaithful.
Jesus (and Job, Job 2:4-5) proved faithful under adverse conditions.
Thus, whether we are under favorable conditions, or under adverse conditions, we can choose to obey God if we want to gain everlasting life as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What does that mean, "to fulfill all righteousness"?

I find the figurative humble ' sheep'-like people of Matthew 25:37-40 are counted as being ' righteous ' because of how they have treated Jesus' spiritual ' brothers '.

Jesus, as being ' full of all righteousness ' would mean being free from all sins.

 

[metis]

I find the figurative humble ' sheep'-like people of Matthew 25:37-40 are counted as being ' righteous ' because of how they have treated Jesus' spiritual ' brothers '.

It says "strangers", so it's not just limited to "spiritual brothers".

 

[Windwalker]

From my brief research before creating this thread, more than anything else it appears to be a ritual for ritual's sake.
.

All rituals have symbolic meaning. Rituals are rituals for symbolism's sake.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Not sure why you would care.

Maybe there is a significant difference that everyone should care about.