What is the purpose of religion?

[arthra]

Your post puzzles me. Surely religion is a major impediment to reform of established orders.
Another point not mentioned is that religions provide livings and power to clergy. In my opinion, religion is a scam devised for the benefit of clergy.

Religions have been exploited to "provide livings and power to clergy"... but then there some religions that today do not have "clergy" and I believe if you explore the origin of religion one can find where there were spiritual experiences at the root and not "scamming".

 

[Dawnofhope]

Further to my previous post mentioning a tribe without gods, the net and W! have yielded me this about the >Pirahã of Brazil<, whose culture without gods is less straightforward but perhaps more interesting than my earlier summary suggested ─

According to Everett, the Pirahã have no concept of a supreme spirit or god, and they lost interest in Jesus when they discovered that Everett had never seen him. They require evidence based on personal experience for every claim made. However, they do believe in spirits that can sometimes take on the shape of things in the environment. These spirits can be jaguars, trees, or other visible, tangible things including people. Everett reported one incident where the Pirahã said that “Xigagaí, one of the beings that lives above the clouds, was standing on a beach yelling at us, telling us that he would kill us if we go into the jungle.” Everett and his daughter could see nothing and yet the Pirahã insisted that Xigagaí was still on the beach.​

Thank you.

The Piraha appear to spiritual beliefs that could be considered within the scope of animism. Experience seems extremely important, so making sense of spiritual concepts through the types of conversations we have here is less relevant.

The Piraha appear to be an independent peoples that can meet most of their needs within the jungle and engagement with the wider world is not a priority.

In some ways, an ideal community for an anthropologist to study.

It is clear that religion or spirituality is there in most if not all primitive cultures, and its hard to imagine a primitive community such as the Piraha without it.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I am a initiated Nichiren Buddhist and will be formally initiated in the theravada tradition early next month. The purpose of religion in general is whatever your beliefs are, are those that shape what you do and how you do in regards worship, giving offerings, prayer, and/or so forth. It's what you do.



The Saddharma Puṇḍarīka Sūtra says

"The Law of the Buddhas is constantly a single flavor. Practicing gradually stage by stage all beings can gain the fruits of the Way. Those who are steadfast and firm in wisdom, who fully comprehend the threefold world, and seek the supreme vehicle to achieve growth and maturity, who dwell in meditation, in the emptiness of all phenomena. Through various causes and conditions, various kinds of simile and parable,opens up and reveals The Buddha Way."

We have the eightfold paths-right action, speech, concentration, meditation, intention, livelihood, views, effort, and mindfulness.

The Buddha goes into extreme detail here: Eightfold Accesstoinsight

The keys to right speech

"Monks, a statement endowed with five factors is well-spoken, not ill-spoken. It is blameless & unfaulted by knowledgeable people. Which five?

"It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will." — AN 5.198 This is a very small excerpt.

The Buddha has a high emphasis on meditation as the purpose of religion (living the eightfold). The core of it is the Noble Truths-or Principles of Life. We all are born, age, grow ill, and pass away. We do this until we gain true understanding of this cycle of rebirth through samsara. When we have full understanding, we are enlightened and we die.

The purpose of religion is to understand and to practice in understanding literally life and death.

So the Buddha outlines a path for correct living that leads ultimately to enlightenment. I was somewhat surprised to find this statement in your link:

Enlightenment is accessible only to those who follow this path
"In any doctrine & discipline where the noble eightfold path is not found, no contemplative of the first... second... third... fourth order [stream-winner, once-returner, non-returner, or arahant] is found. But in any doctrine & discipline where the noble eightfold path is found, contemplatives of the first... second... third... fourth order are found. The noble eightfold path is found in this doctrine & discipline, and right here there are contemplatives of the first... second... third... fourth order. Other teachings are empty of knowledgeable contemplatives. And if the monks dwell rightly, this world will not be empty of arahants."

— DN 16

It sounds somewhat exclusive. Is that how it comes across to you? Otherwise the eightfold path and the four noble truths seem to encompass principles that many of us would have familiarity with, and appear to some extent in most other world religions.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So the Buddha outlines a path for correct living that leads ultimately to enlightenment. I was somewhat surprised to find this statement in your link:

Enlightenment is accessible only to those who follow this path
"In any doctrine & discipline where the noble eightfold path is not found, no contemplative of the first... second... third... fourth order [stream-winner, once-returner, non-returner, or arahant] is found. But in any doctrine & discipline where the noble eightfold path is found, contemplatives of the first... second... third... fourth order are found. The noble eightfold path is found in this doctrine & discipline, and right here there are contemplatives of the first... second... third... fourth order. Other teachings are empty of knowledgeable contemplatives. And if the monks dwell rightly, this world will not be empty of arahants."

— DN 16

It sounds somewhat exclusive. Is that how it comes across to you? Otherwise the eightfold path and the four noble truths seem to encompass principles that many of us would have familiarity with, and appear to some extent in most other world religions.

I wish I could read the whole DN in full but I can't read in bulk only in parts.

The Buddha does specify who is has the ability to be (theravada) or to see (mahayana) enlightenment and who cannot. He differentiates who is following The Path and who is not.

I agree with him, though. It's only logical that if you aren't following the Eightfold, then the principles of life won't be understood because the eightfold, as he explains it, shows how to practice this understanding under The Buddha's discipline. Most of the Pali he is speaking to monks so the restrictions etc were more direct in his early teachings. I think most of Mahayana teachings are from his disciples. They depicted him as someone who can not only give instruction of enlightenment only to monks who are contemplative as above but to us laymen as well. For monks, they have to eat certain foods, can't eat at certain times, have their bed a certain height, and can't listen to music and other entertainments (was reading the suttas earlier).

This is a big reason why, hint hint, The Buddha rights of one sutta cannot be applied to all people but those audiences he is speaking to. Can you imagine us laymen shaving our heads bald trying to suppress our appetite to eat after midnight (or noon, one of the two) without working (asking for money) but depending on living on donations?

It would bring peace but it would take many lifetimes to get to that point.

-

Oh, also that last part, yes, the Dhamma of the eightfold are pretty simple teachings. We all know that we can benefit from having right speech, understanding, mindfulness, etc....and we all know we are born, age, get sick, and die. Buddhism is a disciplinary religion not a divinity religion.

Probably the only thing so far I find mystic is translating sanskrit, pronouncing Bodhisattva names, and learning how the Devas, Gods, Goddesses, etc play in enlightenment since they are in the same boat as humans are. Also, samsara is a new concept for me since christianity is so linear. But it makes sense.

People know most of the things they just think religion has to be about god and something they don't know or be complex some how. We don't give ourselves enough credit.

 

[blü 2]

It is clear that religion or spirituality is there in most if not all primitive cultures, and its hard to imagine a primitive community such as the Piraha without it.

I agree. I'm glad I double-checked it.

And yes, animism.

 

[Dawnofhope]

'Religion' is far too broad a category, to generalize. All sorts of 'purposes'.

Religion is very broad and there are different approaches for defining what is religion and what isn't. In these modern times I find it most useful to consider world religions such as Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism that endured through the centuries, have spanned across different cultures, have definitive sacred texts, and are well known. This seems to be a useful starting point.




Christianity > Anglican | Catholic | Evangelical | Jehovah's Witnesses | Latter-day Saints | Orthodox | Pentecostal
Islam | Hinduism | Buddhism | Sikhism | Judaism | Baha'i | Zoroastrianism | more links

Major Religions of the World
Ranked by Number of Adherents
Christianity: 2.1 billion

• Islam: 1.5 billion

• Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion

• Hinduism: 900 million

• Chinese traditional religion: 394 million

• Buddhism: 376 million

• primal-indigenous: 300 million

• African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million

• Sikhism: 23 million

• Juche: 19 million

• Spiritism: 15 million

• Judaism: 14 million

• Baha'i: 7 million

• Jainism: 4.2 million

• Shinto: 4 million

Then we could look at overall numbers of religious adherents which starts to cover many other major faiths nd worldviews as well.

 

[Vinayaka]

What is the purpose of religion or your world view?

For starters, my world view wouldn't ask this question. I see the question as trying to cover a vast variety of religions and purposes with a sweeping generalisation that couldn't possibly apply to all religions.

So a similar question from my world view would be: "What are the main purposes of the various world religions?" or something like that than encompasses the diversity.

 

[Dawnofhope]

For starters, my world view wouldn't ask this question. I see the question as trying to cover a vast variety of religions and purposes with a sweeping generalisation that couldn't possibly apply to all religions.

So a similar question from my world view would be: "What are the main purposes of the various world religions?" or something like that than encompasses the diversity.

Thank you @Vinayaka .In my OP I have also asked the question what is the purpose of 'your' religion.

I have come to appreciate that the purpose of your religion (Saivite Hinduism) is to achieve Moksha and so escape the cycle of life and death. In a sense. your religion is somewhat unusual in that you have a belief in reincarnation, though it appears an important belief for some Buddhists as well, I would be interested to find out if it was present in other religions as well, or as part of the inevitable intermingling of cultures with globalisation whether or not adherents of other faiths did as well.

Rebirth (Buddhism) - Wikipedia

Although an entirely different paradigm clearly exists for the Dharmic Faiths compared to the Abrahamics, it is interesting to consider an elevated state of consciousness that necessitates attaining heaven or being closer to God. Could there be parallels? Some like my self of a more universalist persuasion would argue for the affirmative. Others would argue, absolutely not. The purpose of my OP was not too resolve this question but to better appreciate and understand the diversity of belief by first hearing from adherents what it is they actually believe.

Interesting, the relative lack of responses from either Christians, Muslims, or Jews. Perhaps the manner the question was framed, as you suggested, was a little too broad.

 

[Vinayaka]

Thank you @Vinayaka
Rebirth (Buddhism) - Wikipedia

Although an entirely different paradigm clearly exists for the Dharmic Faiths compared to the Abrahamics, it is interesting to consider an elevated state of consciousness that necessitates attaining heaven or being closer to God. Could there be parallels? Some like my self of a more universalist persuasion would argue for the affirmative.

I, as you probably suspected, would suggest very little, or no, parallels. For starters, one paradigm uses words to express the deeper stuff, while the other uses silence. So yes, a talker and a non-talker can share a smile, or point to something, but beyond that?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Thank you @Vinayaka .In my OP I have also asked the question what is the purpose of 'your' religion.

I have come to appreciate that the purpose of your religion (Saivite Hinduism) is to achieve Moksha and so escape the cycle of life and death. In a sense. your religion is somewhat unusual in that you have a belief in reincarnation, though it appears an important belief for some Buddhists as well, I would be interested to find out if it was present in other religions as well, or as part of the inevitable intermingling of cultures with globalisation whether or not adherents of other faiths did as well.

Rebirth (Buddhism) - Wikipedia

Although an entirely different paradigm clearly exists for the Dharmic Faiths compared to the Abrahamics, it is interesting to consider an elevated state of consciousness that necessitates attaining heaven or being closer to God. Could there be parallels? Some like my self of a more universalist persuasion would argue for the affirmative. Others would argue, absolutely not. The purpose of my OP was not too resolve this question but to better appreciate and understand the diversity of belief by first hearing from adherents what it is they actually believe.

Interesting, the relative lack of responses from either Christians, Muslims, or Jews. Perhaps the manner the question was framed, as you suggested, was a little too broad.

Okay, here's a Muslim responding - what are you interested in finding out, as it were? Do you want to know the purpose(s) I find in my religion, or the purpose(s) of religion in general (as I see it/them)?

 

[Jumi]

I think the purpose of world views is to keep someone's mind from being burdened in a demanding civilized environment. A religion is usually there to find a feeling of certainty or stability in an uncertain world

 

[Dawnofhope]

Okay, here's a Muslim responding - what are you interested in finding out, as it were? Do you want to know the purpose(s) I find in my religion, or the purpose(s) of religion in general (as I see it/them)?

Its an open ended question so both the personal and general perspective if you have the energy and inclination.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Its an open ended question so both the personal and general perspective if you have the energy and inclination.

Well I've got some of both, so here goes!

Actually, on reflection, for me the answer to both questions boils down to pretty much the same thing - in a nutshell, gaining knowledge about and getting closer to God.

 

[Mister Silver]

My personal view on the purpose of religion is that it was corrupted from its original intent. Religion is supposed to provide comfort, first and foremost, to those who cannot seem to find comfort outside of a belief system. How people corrupt religion, we can thank multiple denominations and multiple interpretations of scripture and the "us vs. them" mentality, is a major problem that needs to be resolved.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Social cohesion and stability
Passing on of tradition
Remembrance of Heroes and Ancestors
Tribal pride and growth
Awe and reverence
Instilling of Virtues

 

[Dawnofhope]

Well I've got some of both, so here goes!

Actually, on reflection, for me the answer to both questions boils down to pretty much the same thing - in a nutshell, gaining knowledge about and getting closer to God.

Interesting.

That's exactly the same as one of the obligatory prayers for the Baha'i Faith.

The prayers goes:

I bear witness o my God, that Thou has created me to know Thee and to worship Thee. I testify at this moment to my powerlessness and Thy Might, to my Poverty and to Thy wealth. There is none other God but Thee, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting.

The similarity is probably not surprising as the Baha'i emerged from Persia (now Iran) in the nineteenth century.

 

[Dawnofhope]

My personal view on the purpose of religion is that it was corrupted from its original intent. Religion is supposed to provide comfort, first and foremost, to those who cannot seem to find comfort outside of a belief system. How people corrupt religion, we can thank multiple denominations and multiple interpretations of scripture and the "us vs. them" mentality, is a major problem that needs to be resolved.

There is no question that some of the main faiths have changed significantly from what their founders taught.

Christianity added the doctrine of the Trinity for example in the 4th century. The divinity of Christ is another misunderstanding that developed around the same time. The belief in a physical resurrection probably developed from Paul's teaching to a Greek audience in a manner they would understand.

The teachings of Buddha were passed on through oral traditions for over three centuries before they were written down and given the volume of writings that exist it would be almost impossible to have this recalled and recorded correctly.

So I agree that the teachings have changed significantly from what was originally taught.

I agree also the religion has been used by so called leaders for purposes of conquest and domination that were not the intent of original founders.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Social cohesion and stability
Passing on of tradition
Remembrance of Heroes and Ancestors
Tribal pride and growth
Awe and reverence
Instilling of Virtues

I agree with all you have written. Is it my imagination, but weren't you a Catholic the last time we spoke?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I agree with all you have written. Is it my imagination, but weren't you a Catholic the last time we spoke?

Probably. I tried again but it doesn't work for me.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Probably. I tried again but it doesn't work for me.

It is good to explore options other than the faith we grew up in. I went from Protestant Christian to Baha'i 27 years ago. What works for one person will not suit another so all the best with that journey.