What is the salvation message the JW's espouse?

[Deeje]

In answer to a request for this information, I will endeavor to answer as simply as I can....

To understand the "salvation message" one first has to understand what salvation is. What are we getting saved from, exactly?

In reading the scriptures it is apparent that Adam lost something that only Jesus could get back for us. But why did it need him to sacrifice his life?

The scriptures say that Christ's sacrifice is a "ransom" which is the price paid for the release of a captive.

Jesus said..."Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.”

What Adam did was sell his children into slavery due to his disobedience. They then had to pay for what he did. This was slavery to sin and death....not something that we can release ourselves from. But why did Jesus have to be born as a human child and offer up his life? Because the price required under the law of God was an "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life."

Adam's sin caused alienation from God requiring a mediator to act as a go-between for us with God....because of our sinful condition, we cannot come before God directly. As mediator Jesus conveyed God's instructions to mankind behind the scenes for thousands of years before his mission to earth to offer his life for us. The "crime" committed by Adam carried the death penalty.....Adam died, but as a result, that penalty was inherited genetically by all of Adam's children. (Romans 5:12)

Since a perfect life was lost, only a perfect life could redeem mankind. None among the human race were now perfect, tarnished by the defect of sin. Jesus volunteered to carry out the mission and fulfill the law that justice required. It was the ultimate act of love. (John 15:13)

His life would pay for our release. But why is salvation necessary? Because humans on earth have free will and many of them do not want Christ's ransom to apply to them. By their choices and lifestyle they show God that they don't want to know him.

The apostle Paul wrote that...."it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you. 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you." (2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 NWT)

At the time of the judgment, only those who have proven worthy of the ransom will be saved from the coming wrath of God which will be expressed upon all those who heard the Christian message but rejected it.

Jesus used the days of Noah as a symbol of things to come....

"For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man." (Matthew 24:37-39 ESV)

Just as surely as God brought a flood of punishment upon a world of ungodly people, so he will again. Only this time it will not be by water.

 

[osgart]

So then who is Jesus, if not the Son of God?

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Jesus is the Son of Man.

It's a riddle, but I'll help you solve it.

The Jews were aware of Adam's sin, and they lived according to the law to try to atone for it. But you can NEVER measure up to the law. The way it's designed, even if there was one law ("don't eat from that tree") it couldn't be followed. And if you've ever worked for a crappy boss with impossible standards, you know exactly the problem. There's also the fact that humans suffering under the Knowledge of Good and Evil, even if no laws were given, would decide on their own that they had done something wrong.

Jesus figured out the flaw of the paradigm, and overcame it, transcending the programming. Kinda sorta like Neo in the Matrix series. Because of this, Jesus is no longer a separate being from humanity. By dying, he became something other God (God is a deity, deities cannot die, so by dying he became part of the human race), and rising from the dead, he made humans part of the body of God.

What was the significance of the temple veil being torn in two when Jesus died?

 

[osgart]

What about Matthew 3:17

 

[osgart]

Did Jesus always exist?

If Jesus is the Son of God, isnt that a divine nature?

 

[osgart]

In answer to a request for this information, I will endeavor to answer as simply as I can....

To understand the "salvation message" one first has to understand what salvation is. What are we getting saved from, exactly?

In reading the scriptures it is apparent that Adam lost something that only Jesus could get back for us. But why did it need him to sacrifice his life?

The scriptures say that Christ's sacrifice is a "ransom" which is the price paid for the release of a captive.

Jesus said..."Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.”

What Adam did was sell his children into slavery due to his disobedience. They then had to pay for what he did. This was slavery to sin and death....not something that we can release ourselves from. But why did Jesus have to be born as a human child and offer up his life? Because the price required under the law of God was an "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life."

Adam's sin caused alienation from God requiring a mediator to act as a go-between for us with God....because of our sinful condition, we cannot come before God directly. As mediator Jesus conveyed God's instructions to mankind behind the scenes for thousands of years before his mission to earth to offer his life for us. The "crime" committed by Adam carried the death penalty.....Adam died, but as a result, that penalty was inherited genetically by all of Adam's children. (Romans 5:12)

Since a perfect life was lost, only a perfect life could redeem mankind. None among the human race were now perfect, tarnished by the defect of sin. Jesus volunteered to carry out the mission and fulfill the law that justice required. It was the ultimate act of love. (John 15:13)

His life would pay for our release. But why is salvation necessary? Because humans on earth have free will and many of them do not want Christ's ransom to apply to them. By their choices and lifestyle they show God that they don't want to know him.

The apostle Paul wrote that...."it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you. 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you." (2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 NWT)

At the time of the judgment, only those who have proven worthy of the ransom will be saved from the coming wrath of God which will be expressed upon all those who heard the Christian message but rejected it.

Jesus used the days of Noah as a symbol of things to come....

"For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man." (Matthew 24:37-39 ESV)

Just as surely as God brought a flood of punishment upon a world of ungodly people, so he will again. Only this time it will not be by water.

Thankyou for your thoughtful response , and answering my request.

 

[Deeje]

So then who is Jesus, if not the Son of God?

Jesus is the "Son of God"...he is the first divine creation of his Father. (Revelation 3:14)

"Son of God" is not the same as "God the Son".

 

[Deeje]

What about Matthew 3:17

The voice of the Father approving of the actions of his son and what his role as Messiah would accomplish.

 

[osgart]

The voice of the Father approving of the actions of his son and what his role as Messiah would accomplish.

So to say that Jesus is equal with God is a misconception?

Also i find it interesting that God made Jesus and that God has sinless creations. Perhaps Jesus was born differently than mankind?

Humans being born to choose, while Jesus is born divine.

 

[Deeje]

Did Jesus always exist?

NO. God has always existed and is the only one bearing the title "King of Eternity".
The pre-human Jesus was created as God's "only begotten son"...but he is certainly not the only "son of God".
Angels are called sons of God and even Adam is called a son of God in Jesus' genealogy.

"Only begotten" in Greek is "monogenes" and it means an only child in any sense of the word. He was an "only begotten son" in the fact that he is the only direct creation of his father....all other things were brought into existence through the agency of the Son. (Colossians 1:15-17)

If Jesus is the Son of God, isnt that a divine nature?

Yes he had a divine origin but he was 100% human. He had to be to offer his life to balance the scales of justice.
His life had to be the equivalent of Adam's. He did not need to be God to pay the ransom...that would have been overkill to the max.

Jesus is called the "last Adam" because his life was the equivalent to what Adam lost in Eden.
Jesus' sacrifice gets us back all that was taken from us. Paradise awaits us now as we see the world shaping up for its conclusion, just as Jesus said (Matthew 24:37-39)

 

[Deeje]

So to say that Jesus is equal with God is a misconception?

To say that Jesus is equal in any way to the Father is actually blasphemy. The Father has no equal.

Also i find it interesting that God made Jesus and that God has sinless creations. Perhaps Jesus was born differently than mankind?

He was born of the holy spirit, not from the natural means of reproduction. Mary was a virgin and remained so until after Jesus was born.

Adam was created without defect but with free will. It was the abuse of free will that created his physical defect. He passed that defect onto all of us. Jesus came to remove the defect and return us to the same state that Adam and his wife first enjoyed.

Humans being born to choose, while Jesus is born divine.

Jesus also had free will, but was his Father's choice as the one he trusted most to carry out this difficult mission.

Imagine how God must have felt when the devil rebelled and then led mankind into rebellion too....Angels were watching and they too would take sides in this issue.....God needed someone who could not be touched by the devil's craftiness or be moved to put selfish concerns first. What an amazing example he was!

 

[osgart]

To say that Jesus is equal in any way to the Father is actually blasphemy. The Father has no equal.



He was born of the holy spirit, not from the natural means of reproduction. Mary was a virgin and remained so until after Jesus was born.

Adam was created without defect but with free will. It was the abuse of free will that created his physical defect. He passed that defect onto all of us. Jesus came to remove the defect and return us to the same state that Adam and his wife first enjoyed.



Jesus also had free will, but was his Father's choice as the one he trusted most to carry out this difficult mission.

Imagine how God must have felt when the devil rebelled and then led mankind into rebellion too....Angels were watching and they too would take sides in this issue.....God needed someone who could not be touched by the devil's craftiness or be moved to put selfish concerns first. What an amazing example he was!

So then thats what much of the Christianity of today does, blaspheme?

 

[Deeje]

Jesus is the Son of Man.

It's a riddle, but I'll help you solve it.

The Jews were aware of Adam's sin, and they lived according to the law to try to atone for it. But you can NEVER measure up to the law. The way it's designed, even if there was one law ("don't eat from that tree") it couldn't be followed. And if you've ever worked for a crappy boss with impossible standards, you know exactly the problem. There's also the fact that humans suffering under the Knowledge of Good and Evil, even if no laws were given, would decide on their own that they had done something wrong.

Jesus figured out the flaw of the paradigm, and overcame it, transcending the programming. Kinda sorta like Neo in the Matrix series. Because of this, Jesus is no longer a separate being from humanity. By dying, he became something other God (God is a deity, deities cannot die, so by dying he became part of the human race), and rising from the dead, he made humans part of the body of God.

What was the significance of the temple veil being torn in two when Jesus died?

I am trying to correlate what you said (which I believe is a far cry from any Biblical truth) with the link that you provided, which was fairly accurate.....but nothing to do with your post....

 

[Deeje]

So then thats what much of the Christianity of today does, blaspheme?

When you consider that Jesus foretold that an apostasy would occur in Christianity just as it did in Judaism, then we can see that those in Jesus' day believed in the teachings of the Jewish system, but it had been corrupted. They believed their religious leaders and rejected Christ, losing their place in the Kingdom.

The "weeds" of Jesus' parable were sown by the same one who corrupted the Jewish religion. Jesus identified him as the devil. (Matthew 13:36-42)
People have no idea that the Christianity they practice is nothing close to what Jesus presented. They are not taught to research things for themselves, but just to turn up to church and be spoon fed a bunch of man made doctrines and to make sure they put their money in the box. Jesus will reject them. (Matthew 7:21-23)

The blasphemy is for the most part, unwitting, but if they are sincere they will want to know God and his Christ more intimately (John 17:3) and there is so much information online these days it isn't hard to do. I find that people are basically lazy...they want what Jesus is offering but they want to take the easy road to get there. (Matthew 7:13-14)

 

[osgart]

When you consider that Jesus foretold that an apostasy would occur in Christianity just as it did in Judaism, then we can see that those in Jesus' day believed in the teachings of the Jewish system, but it had been corrupted. They believed their religious leaders and rejected Christ, losing their place in the Kingdom.

The "weeds" of Jesus' parable were sown by the same one who corrupted the Jewish religion. Jesus identified him as the devil. (Matthew 13:36-42)
People have no idea that the Christianity they practice is nothing close to what Jesus presented. They are not taught to research things for themselves, but just to turn up to church and be spoon fed a bunch of man made doctrines and to make sure they put their money in the box. Jesus will reject them. (Matthew 7:21-23)

The blasphemy is for the most part, unwitting, but if they are sincere they will want to know God and his Christ more intimately (John 17:3) and there is so much information online these days it isn't hard to do. I find that people are basically lazy...they want what Jesus is offering but they want to take the easy road to get there. (Matthew 7:13-14)

I find it mind numbing the amount of misinformation that gets spread around.

I dont enjoy the catholicism, and baptist viewpoints i grew up in. So i have deadened myself to these ways.

I will take those websites that you gave me and look into it myself.

What you said does sound more expressive of the Bible.

You gave me what i asked for. You are very kind in doing so.

 

[Deeje]

I find it mind numbing the amount of misinformation that gets spread around.

I dont enjoy the catholicism, and baptist viewpoints i grew up in. So i have deadened myself to these ways.

I will take those websites that you gave me and look into it myself.

What you said does sound more expressive of the Bible.

You gave me what i asked for. You are very kind in doing so.

It was my pleasure. Please don't hesitate to ask if you have questions. Like Jesus first century followers, we are not going to get good press.

There is a mass of misinformation about us. We just shake our heads.

They painted Jesus and his disciples as a dangerous cult. (John 15:18-21)

God's spirit does the directing not us. If he is for us...who can be against us?

 

[InChrist]

The scriptures prove that Jesus is God/Jehovah/Yahweh. Thomas realized and understood this when he saw Jesus resurrected and spoke directly to Him...“In answer Thomas said to him: ‘My Lord and my God!'”John 20:29 NWT . In Greek, the verse reads, “ho kurios mou kai ho theos mou,” which translates to “the Lord of me and the God of me.”

 

[Deeje]

The scriptures prove that Jesus is God/Jehovah/Yahweh.

I'm afraid they don't. There is way more scripture that refutes the trinity than proves it. Would you like a list?

Thomas realized and understood this when he saw Jesus resurrected and spoke directly to Him...“In answer Thomas said to him: ‘My Lord and my God!'”John 20:29 NWT . In Greek, the verse reads, “ho kurios mou kai ho theos mou,” which translates to “the Lord of me and the God of me.”

And everyone who uses the expression "Oh my God!" is calling the person they are talking to a deity....

Can you provide a single scripture where Jesus actually confesses straight out to being God? Just one will do.

Thomas was a doubter...he was displaying a lack of faith. When Jesus materialized a body with wound marks just for his benefit, you are going to take an exclamation of shock to be an accurate account of the deity of Jesus Christ?

 

[osgart]

Phillipians 2:5-7. I have read two different Bibles, one contrary to the other about the equality of Jesus and The Father.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

When you consider that Jesus foretold that an apostasy would occur in Christianity just as it did in Judaism, then we can see that those in Jesus' day believed in the teachings of the Jewish system, but it had been corrupted. They believed their religious leaders and rejected Christ, losing their place in the Kingdom.

The "weeds" of Jesus' parable were sown by the same one who corrupted the Jewish religion. Jesus identified him as the devil. (Matthew 13:36-42)
People have no idea that the Christianity they practice is nothing close to what Jesus presented. They are not taught to research things for themselves, but just to turn up to church and be spoon fed a bunch of man made doctrines and to make sure they put their money in the box. Jesus will reject them. (Matthew 7:21-23)

The blasphemy is for the most part, unwitting, but if they are sincere they will want to know God and his Christ more intimately (John 17:3) and there is so much information online these days it isn't hard to do. I find that people are basically lazy...they want what Jesus is offering but they want to take the easy road to get there. (Matthew 7:13-14)

I know this may be off subject; but, just questions of curiosity rather than discussion. In JW view:

Since Christianity is corrupted, why use the book in which where, in part, were written by those who believed in christ (christians) and chosen, distributed, and taught by the Catholic Church (before the split)?

Why use their book if they are corrupted?

Wouldn't it make more sense to use the Torah to which the laws given from moses come directly from god...as opposed to apostles testimonies that are about jesus and jesus words about the words of moses?


In other words, why use two middle men apostle->jesus->god, when you can go to god directly through the laws of Moses to which jesus often quoted?

When you quote scripture, it's still the compilation of and from the church. So, whatever you quote is in their bible and what they teach.

Coming from a non-trinitarian view.