What is the soul, according to the Bible?

[moorea944]

LOL...."a deeper explanation"? Or just more of the same made up stuff? There are no "levels"...just life and death...that's it. Eccl 9:5, 6, 10, basically cancels all that rubbish out.
David too sealed it in Psalm 146:4...no thinking in the grave.

Your absolutely right!! There are so many verses in scripture on death, yet people dont wont to hear that. They want to hear that when your dead, there is still life, you go on living somewhere else in your "soul", still loving your children, praising God, etc, etc. No where in the bible does it say that. Right in the beginning of Genesis, if you eat of fruit, you die.

Eccl 9 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun."

Gen 3 "Dust thou art: to dust thou shalt return."

"Then Abraham gave up the spirit, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people." "Spirit" in Hebrew is breath.....

Psalms 6 "In death there is no remembrance of Thee: in the grave, who shall give Thee thanks?"

Psalms 115 "The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence."

This is just some of many verses on death. Acts 2, Peter gives examples of what death is by taking about David. David is just dead and buried and he didnt go to heaven. He's just with us today in the grave.

Spirit - ruach - A Hebrew word meaning "breath". It can also be rendered as life, mind, thoughts or spirit in a way as breathing, breath of the living, or emotions.
Jesus gave up his "spirit". Jesus gave up his breath. Very simple language. Stephan gave up his spirit, Abraham gave up his spirit. They all gave up their breath and died and were buried.

Plus, no where in scripture is "soul" and "immortal" found together, ever!! If the "immortal soul' is such an important part of Christianity, why is it not found in the bible?

 

[kalyan]

Seeing the replies, either a soul is a complete materialistic entity as per bible or it does not exist.......there are nothing much explained about it .
In hinduism, many people equate soul to atma which is wrong.......Atma is a complete different immortal and eternal, basically atma is us and body is just a vehicle............

 

[Hockeycowboy]

This is absolutely false. First, it is the term pneuma that can mean something like breath or "thing that breathes", not psyche.
Second, here's the definition of psyche in the most authoritative Greek lexicon available in English:
ψῡχ-ή, ἡ, life, λύθη ψ. τε μένος τε Il.5.296, etc.; ψ. τε καὶ αἰών 16.453, cf. Od.9.523; θυμοῦ καὶ ψ. Il.11.334, Od.21.154; λαυκανίην, ἵνα τε ψυχῆς ὤκιστος ὄλεθρος Il.22.325; ψυχὰς παρθέμενοι at hazard of their lives, Od.3.74,9.255; αἰεὶ ἐμὴν ψ. παραβαλλόμενος Il.9.322; λίσσου’ ὑπὲρ ψ. καὶ γούνων by your life, 22.338; so ἀντὶ ψ. S.OC1326: but περὶ ψ. to save their life, Od.9.423; περί τε ψυχέων ἐμάχοντο 22.245; περὶ ψ. θέον Ἕκτορος Il.22.161; τρέχων περὶ τῆς ψ. Hdt.9.37; τῆς ἐμῆς περὶ ψ. A.Eu.115, cf. E.Hel.946, Heracl.984; περὶ ψ. κινδυνεύων Antipho 2.1.4, cf. Th. 8.50; ἁγὼν . . σῆς ψ. πέρι S.El.1492, cf. E.Ph.1330, Or.847, X.Cyr.3.3.44; τὸν περὶ ψ. δρόμον δραμεῖν Ar.V.375 (lyr.)...

The bible was written mostly in Hebrew, not Greek.


No, they didn't.


It existed in Jewish circles prior to the first century, and in Christian circles from the beginning. The question wasn't whether or not the soul was immortal (it clearly was) but what its relation was (other than identity) to the body, as immortality in both Christian and Jewish circles at this time tended to be understood in terms of bodily resurrection.

Nonsense. In NO theory of the soul's immortality in antiquity did this involve a claim that it would be impossible for an individual to be resurrected from death because of an immortal soul.


It isn't. And to the extent it is, so is resurrection.

athanasia means "deathless" and tends to refer to the ἀθάνατοι, the immortals or "gods".


Because the Bible wasn't written in classical Greek.


Why use the language into which Ezekiel was translated?

What? I don't think you're following this very well..... Pneuma in Greek, corresponds to Ruah, in Hebrew, and is translated spirit ( literally breath), in English. Psyche corresponds to nephesh in Hebrew, meaning soul, which is the THING (entity) that breathes!

 

[allright]

Revelation 20:10 And they will be tormented there forever and ever.

Someone who does not exist cannot be tormented

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Revelation 20:10 And they will be tormented there forever and ever.

Someone who does not exist cannot be tormented

First off, the passage says, they are "tormented there".... the Lake of Fire, right? Just want to clarify that, so we can agree. What else is "thrown" into the Lake of Fire? Doesn't it say, "death (Revelation 20:14)"? Now, can you 'burn' death? No....it is nothing tangible, it's not like wood or paper; there is nothing to burn!

So, what could this mean, 'throwing death (and Hell) into the Lake of Fire'? Consider what fire could symbolize: when you burn something up....it is no more; you're not getting it back! If you turn to the next chapter, Revelation 21:3-4, vs.4 says "death will be no more"! Gone forever! Backing up what Isaiah 25:8 states.

When you look up 'tormentor' in Greek, you'll see its relation to our English word, 'jailor', one who holds others in a prison. This tormenting simply means that those who are thrown into the Lake of Fire, will be imprisoned by death (non-existence) forever!

The symbolic meaning of fire in the Bible can also be seen in 2 Peter 3, where it says the 'heavens and the earth will be destroyed by fire.' I've posted on this before, about what the "New Heavens and New Earth" mean.

Remember, the entire body of Scriptures agrees with itself. When it seems to contradict, the fault isn't with it....its with what we were told about it.

Really, how could anyone correlate the Bible's saying that "God is love," and then teaching that God torments people forever? Even those who are just "liars" and "cowards"? But what is compatible with God's love and justice, is that these ones will be in a state of non-existence, forever! I say, 'will be', because the Bible tells us that even the unrighteous will be resurrected, given a second opportunity to live, with everlasting life in view! --John 5:28-29; Acts of the Apostles 24:15

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Revelation 20:10 And they will be tormented there forever and ever.
Someone who does not exist cannot be tormented

First of all, Revelation is written in very-vivid word pictures.
Please notice the word used is torment and Not torture.
In Scripture, such as found at Matthew 18:30; Matthew 18:34, a tormentor ( Not torturer ) is simply a jailer.
What is the figurative torment of the lake of fire but: second death.
The definition of the lake of fire is: ' second death ' according to Revelation 20:13-14
Satan ends up in ' second death ' Revelation 21:8
Jesus destroys Satan - Hebrews 2:14 b
So, the torment ( jail ) for Satan is: destruction. Everlasting destruction ( forever and ever ) - 2 Thessalonians 1:9
All the wicked will be: destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7
That is why we are asked to ' repent ' so as Not to ' perish ' ( be destroyed ) - 2 Peter 3:9

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I have a question for you. A soul, to me, is the same as a spirit. I use the word spirit, though, instead. We are spirits and we are flesh. Who we are is made up of both.
If this isn't true, how is it interpreted in scripture and please put your comments with any scriptures you quote.

Some people conclude that the soul can die, but the spirit lives on. The Bible teaches the soul can be destroyed at Acts of the Apostles 3:23, and the 'spirit ' goes back to God.
When Adam died 'all' of Adam ' returned ' to the dust of the ground according to Genesis 3:19
So, Adam's spirit went back to God in that any future life prospect lies in God's hands.
As a foreclosed house goes back to the owner but does Not move or go anywhere, our life's spirit goes back to God's safe hands until Resurrection Day.
Resurrection Day meaning a figurative day taking place during Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over earth for a thousand years.
Spirit in Bible speak can refer to energy.
In English we speak of school spirit ( Not a person ) but energy as a pep rally creates school spirit.
Or, we can think of a high-spirited horse having energy.
If we turned into angels ( spirit persons ) at death there would be No need for a resurrection. The living do Not need a resurrection but the dead do.
The dead do Not turn into angels. According to Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4 the dead are in a sleep-like state and Not an angelic state.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

What? I don't think you're following this very well

I can read ancient Greek. I can read Hebrew (not as well as I can Greek, and I don't have a degree in Hebrew or Semitic languages like I do classical languages). I gave you the definition of psyche according to the LSJ.
You, however, made this statement:

IHowever, psyche actually means something that breathes.

It most certainly doesn't mean any such thing. It didn't mean this in classical Greek (Attic or Ionic), it didn't mean this in Hellenistic Greek, and it isn't used to mean this even in the LXX (it CAN refer to breath, but it doesn't mean "something that breathes").. For your convenience, I've scanned the pages containing the entry psyche in Muraoka's A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint.

τεθνήκασιν γὰρ οἱ ζητοῦντες τὴν ψυχὴν τοῦ παιδίου (Matt. 2:20) doesn't mean "those seeking a breathing thing of the child are dead", it means "those seeking the child's life are dead". When (Matt. 6:25) Jesus says Διὰ τοῦτο λέγω ὑμῖν· μὴ μεριμνᾶτε τῇ ψυχῇ ὑμῶν, he doesn't mean "don't worry about your breathing things" but "don't worry about your life."
When (Mk. 3:4 ) Jesus asks whether it is lawful ψυχὴν σῶσαι ἢ ἀποκτεῖναι on the Sabbath, he doesn't mean "to kill or to save the thing that breathes" but "to save life". When he says (Mk 10:45) ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου οὐκ ἦλθεν διακονηθῆναι ἀλλ ὰ διακονῆσαι καὶ δοῦναι τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ λύτρον ἀντὶ πολλ ῶν, he is not saying that "the son of man came not to be served but to serve and to give his life [as] a ransom for the multitude". When (Lk. 1:46) we find an OT reference on the lips of Mary beginning Μεγαλύνει ἡ ψυχή μου τὸν κύριον, her breath isn't glorifying or magnifying the Lord, her soul is.

Finally, why on Earth are you approaching the conception of "soul" or related concepts in the Bible via an attempt at an analysis of Greek lexemes?

It is used in the Bible to describe both breathing animals and breathing humans.

For its use in the LXX, see the attached document. For an understanding of the concept of soul in the Bible, switch to Hebrew.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I can read ancient Greek. I can read Hebrew (not as well as I can Greek, and I don't have a degree in Hebrew or Semitic languages like I do classical languages). I gave you the definition of psyche according to the LSJ.
You, however, made this statement:

It most certainly doesn't mean any such thing. It didn't mean this in classical Greek (Attic or Ionic), it didn't mean this in Hellenistic Greek, and it isn't used to mean this even in the LXX (it CAN refer to breath, but it doesn't mean "something that breathes").. For your convenience, I've scanned the pages containing the entry psyche in Muraoka's A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint.

τεθνήκασιν γὰρ οἱ ζητοῦντες τὴν ψυχὴν τοῦ παιδίου (Matt. 2:20) doesn't mean "those seeking a breathing thing of the child are dead", it means "those seeking the child's life are dead". When (Matt. 6:25) Jesus says Διὰ τοῦτο λέγω ὑμῖν· μὴ μεριμνᾶτε τῇ ψυχῇ ὑμῶν, he doesn't mean "don't worry about your breathing things" but "don't worry about your life."
When (Mk. 3:4 ) Jesus asks whether it is lawful ψυχὴν σῶσαι ἢ ἀποκτεῖναι on the Sabbath, he doesn't mean "to kill or to save the thing that breathes" but "to save life". When he says (Mk 10:45) ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου οὐκ ἦλθεν διακονηθῆναι ἀλλ ὰ διακονῆσαι καὶ δοῦναι τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ λύτρον ἀντὶ πολλ ῶν, he is not saying that "the son of man came not to be served but to serve and to give his life [as] a ransom for the multitude". When (Lk. 1:46) we find an OT reference on the lips of Mary beginning Μεγαλύνει ἡ ψυχή μου τὸν κύριον, her breath isn't glorifying or magnifying the Lord, her soul is.

Finally, why on Earth are you approaching the conception of "soul" or related concepts in the Bible via an attempt at an analysis of Greek lexemes?


For its use in the LXX, see the attached document. For an understanding of the concept of soul in the Bible, switch to Hebrew.

I want to apologize for the way I started out. It came across as somewhat condescending.....I'm sorry.

Here is something about 'pneuma' in the Bible you may appreciate. I've saved it to my iPad notes. This was written, as a link from the 2001translation.com in order to explain their translation usage of the word 'pneuma' in their version of the NT, and also how it's used in some instances in the Greek text of the Hebrew Scriptures (I must say, I don't think I agree with how they view Gen.6:3 ):

***Breath
The Greek word pneuma (as in pneumonia, a breathing disease) means breath or wind – the movement of air. In other Bible translations, this word is often translated as spirit or ghost, as in Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost. However, spirit is just a shortened form of the Latin word spiritu, which once again just means breath in Latin. And ghostconveys another meaning altogether.

In the Bible, the most common use of the word pneuma is to convey the idea of a force that can't be seen, such as breath or wind. And the problem with translating it as spirit or ghost is that those words have been given religious meanings which aren't implied by the Greek texts. Therefore, to prevent confusion, the Greek word pneuma is frequently translated as breath herein. However, there are many exceptions, as in instances where the Bible refers to demons as 'spirits.' Translating pneuma as breath in these cases, although correct, might just be confusing. So there are several places where we have left pneuma translated as spirit.

For example; there are instances where the word pneuma is speaking of a person's motivation. Therefore, we have translated pneuma as spirit in such locations, as we have also done in several places that speak of God's Holy Spirit, where readers will better understand the meaning in Modern English. However, rendering it as [God's] Holy Breath (which we have done in several instances) is really more accurate and a clarification. For an example, see the Note, 'Worshiping God In Spirit and Truth.'

Another important use of the word pneuma is in the phrase, 'Breath of Life.' This phrase appears to mean more than just breathing, for it seems to refer to the entire mechanics of life itself. It's the unseen force of life for all creatures and what makes each cell alive. However, nowhere does the Bible describe the 'pneuma' as immortal, nor is it the same as the soul (a breathing thing); so it can (figuratively) 'return to God' at death, because all hope of future life depends on God and His promise of a resurrection.

Note in particular how the term Breath is used at Job 27:3 (in the Greek text), where Job spoke of God's Breath or Spirit. For there he asked: 'Does the Breath of the Divine One remain in my nose?' As you can see from his application of this word, pneuma obviously referred to God's Breath, for he was clearly talking about that which comes from God and which caused him (Job) to breathe… the Breath of Life.

It is interesting that at Genesis 6:3, God said concerning the wicked people on earth before the Downpour: 'I won't allow My Breath to stay with these men through the age, for they are fleshly.' In Greek, that reads: 'Ou me katameine to pneuma mou en tois anthropois toutoiseis ton aiona, dia ai einai autous sarka,' or, 'Not not should stay the Breath Mine with these men the age through, their being flesh.'

So while the words Breath Mine (pneuma mou) here can refer to God's Holy Breath, it seems more likely that He was referring to the breath of life that He gave to Adam. Therefore, it appears as though what God was saying here is that the breath of life (of the people of that age) would be removed prematurely. However, since God referred to it as 'My Breath,' there may be a link implied between God's Holy Breath and the breath of life. For more information, see the linked document, 'The Powers of God's Holy Spirit.'

Note how the proper rendering of the word pneuma as breath can clarify the meaning of a Bible verse in the instance found at John 19:30. There it says in Greek: 'kai klinas ten kephalen paredoken to pneuma', or, 'and inclined his head giving/up the breath.' So rather than saying that Jesus gave up his spirit, which is how many Bibles render this verse to imply that Jesus then went to God (which he didn't because the Bible tells us that happened forty days later), the obvious reference is to his giving up 'the breath of life,' or that force which gave him life as a human.***


Take care.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

In the Bible, the most common use of the word pneuma is to convey the idea of a force that can't be seen

Again, in the Bible, the most common use of any lexeme would be the use of Semitic lexemes, not Greek. There is little point in trying to understand a concept expressed by Semitic lexemes by analyzing the usage of Greek lexemes. That said, I have scanned the entry for pneuma from A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint for you. I don't see the point in any of this, of course, as there is no good reason to understand concepts in biblical texts by analyzing the usage of terms translated from Hebrew into Greek rather than the usage of the actual Hebrew.

And the problem with translating it as spirit or ghost is that those words have been given religious meanings which aren't implied by the Greek texts.

Most of the bible wasn't written in Greek, and thus the semantics of Greek terms is irrelevant. As for the NT, the meanings that result in part from pagan philosophies (especially Platonic and Aristotelian thought) are absolutely relevant, as the authors of the Gospels and epistles were educated in Greek thought (Greek literature, Greek philosophy, etc.).

Therefore, to prevent confusion, the Greek word pneuma is frequently translated as breath herein.

This is a fundamental mistake. First, it mistakes the connection between "breath" and the conception of "life-force" or "soul" among cultures from the Sumerians to tribes/societies investigated by 20th century ethnologists and anthropologists. See in particular The Origins of European Thought: About the Body, the Mind, the Soul, the World, Time, and Fate.

Translating pneuma as breath in these cases, although correct, might just be confusing.

Can you read Greek or Hebrew?

It is interesting that at Genesis 6:3, God said concerning the wicked people on earth before the Downpour: 'I won't allow My Breath to stay with these men through the age, for they are fleshly.' In Greek, that reads: 'Ou me katameine to pneuma mou en tois anthropois toutoiseis ton aiona, dia ai einai autous sarka,' or, 'Not not should stay the Breath Mine with these men the age through, their being flesh.'

1) pneuma mou shouldn't be translated as pneuma mine, but "the pneuma of me" or "my pneuma". The pronoun mou is in the genitive. However you wish you translate pneuma here, following it by "mine" is just bad translation practice.

So while the words Breath Mine (pneuma mou) here can refer to God's Holy Breath, it seems more likely that He was referring to the breath of life that He gave to Adam.

Except that the Greek here is a translation of the Hebrew, and is thus irrelevant. If you wish to analyze the line, analyze the Hebrew.

 

[allright]

Your absolutely right!! There are so many verses in scripture on death, yet people dont wont to hear that. They want to hear that when your dead, there is still life, you go on living somewhere else in your "soul", still loving your children, praising God, etc, etc. No where in the bible does it say that. Right in the beginning of Genesis, if you eat of fruit, you die.

Eccl 9 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun."

Gen 3 "Dust thou art: to dust thou shalt return."

"Then Abraham gave up the spirit, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people." "Spirit" in Hebrew is breath.....

Psalms 6 "In death there is no remembrance of Thee: in the grave, who shall give Thee thanks?"

Psalms 115 "The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence."

This is just some of many verses on death. Acts 2, Peter gives examples of what death is by taking about David. David is just dead and buried and he didnt go to heaven. He's just with us today in the grave.

Spirit - ruach - A Hebrew word meaning "breath". It can also be rendered as life, mind, thoughts or spirit in a way as breathing, breath of the living, or emotions.
Jesus gave up his "spirit". Jesus gave up his breath. Very simple language. Stephan gave up his spirit, Abraham gave up his spirit. They all gave up their breath and died and were buried.

Plus, no where in scripture is "soul" and "immortal" found together, ever!! If the "immortal soul' is such an important part of Christianity, why is it not found in the bible?

 

[allright]

First off, the passage says, they are "tormented there".... the Lake of Fire, right? Just want to clarify that, so we can agree. What else is "thrown" into the Lake of Fire? Doesn't it say, "death (Revelation 20:14)"? Now, can you 'burn' death? No....it is nothing tangible, it's not like wood or paper; there is nothing to burn!

So, what could this mean, 'throwing death (and Hell) into the Lake of Fire'? Consider what fire could symbolize: when you burn something up....it is no more; you're not getting it back! If you turn to the next chapter, Revelation 21:3-4, vs.4 says "death will be no more"! Gone forever! Backing up what Isaiah 25:8 states.

When you look up 'tormentor' in Greek, you'll see its relation to our English word, 'jailor', one who holds others in a prison. This tormenting simply means that those who are thrown into the Lake of Fire, will be imprisoned by death (non-existence) forever!

The symbolic meaning of fire in the Bible can also be seen in 2 Peter 3, where it says the 'heavens and the earth will be destroyed by fire.' I've posted on this before, about what the "New Heavens and New Earth" mean.

Remember, the entire body of Scriptures agrees with itself. When it seems to contradict, the fault isn't with it....its with what we were told about it.

Really, how could anyone correlate the Bible's saying that "God is love," and then teaching that God torments people forever? Even those who are just "liars" and "cowards"? But what is compatible with God's love and justice, is that these ones will be in a state of non-existence, forever! I say, 'will be', because the Bible tells us that even the unrighteous will be resurrected, given a second opportunity to live, with everlasting life in view! --John 5:28-29; Acts of the Apostles 24:15

 

[allright]

Reply to hockeycowboy

It means torment or torture not death

Rev 9:5,6 directly says so.

And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months
. There torment was like the torment of a scorpion when its strikes a man.

In those days men will seek death and will not find it, they will desire to die and death will flee from them

As for God being able to keep people alive in a fire, remeber Sadrach Meshach and Abed-Nego

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Reply to hockeycowboy

It means torment or torture not death

Rev 9:5,6 directly says so.

And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months
. There torment was like the torment of a scorpion when its strikes a man.

In those days men will seek death and will not find it, they will desire to die and death will flee from them

As for God being able to keep people alive in a fire, remeber Sadrach Meshach and Abed-Nego

The three Hebrews felt no pain! And, they were alive.

But "the dead are conscious of nothing [or] know not anything" (Ecclesiastes 9:5); when a person dies, "his thoughts perish." (Psalm 146:3-4) They can't feel pain!

But if you want to believe the wicked are tormented instead of destroyed, you are causing the scriptures to contradict themselves, and making God a heartless fiend.

Don't believe everything you've been told! I myself used to believe these things, too. But I threw away those same beliefs!

 

[allright]

The three Hebrews felt no pain! And, they were alive.

But "the dead are conscious of nothing [or] know not anything" (Ecclesiastes 9:5); when a person dies, "his thoughts perish." (Psalm 146:3-4) They can't feel pain!

But if you want to believe the wicked are tormented instead of destroyed, you are causing the scriptures to contradict themselves, and making God a heartless fiend.

Don't believe everything you've been told! I myself used to believe these things, too. But I threw away those same beliefs!

You threw away the truth to make God what you want him to be.

Your whole argument was the word torment meant death which the verses I quoted clearly state it doesnt mean death it means conscious torment

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You threw away the truth to make God what you want him to be.

Your whole argument was the word torment meant death which the verses I quoted clearly state it doesnt mean death it means conscious torment

No, that's not what I said, I said that torment in Revelation 20:10 meant being imprisoned by death.

Revelation 9 also says the 'locusts (who inflicted the torment on men) resembled horses." You think there might be some symbolism there? Plus, it says they were "kept alive", why?

Words in the Scriptures can have different meanings, like "earth": it can mean the entire ground (Isaiah 45:18), or it can mean the people (Genesis 11:1). Many other examples. Context is important. And the entire Bible may have to be used for context. You have to let the Bible speak, in its entirety.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Unfortunately, the pagan doctrine that humans have an immortal soul (not that they are souls), began to creep into Christian teaching around the beginning of the Second Century CE, after the deaths of Jesus' Apostles.

Actually, the pagan conception of the psyche was quite similar to early Jewish belief. The descriptions of Hades found as early as the Homeric epics share much with the Jewish conception of Sheol: the soul is a shadowy thing haunting a dank, depressing, netherworld (you might be interested in Shades of Sheol: Death and Afterlife in the Old Testament). There are many different instances in pre-Christian Jewish scripture indicating the survival of the "soul" or something like it beyond death. These range from instances of necromancy (recall the witch of Endor who conjured up Samuel's ghost for Saul) to rather vague references to resurrection, e.g., "YHWH kills and brings to life; he brings down to Sheol and raises up" (1 Sam. 2:6) or
"Your dead shall live, their corpses shall rise.
O dwellers in the dust, awake and sing for joy!
For your dew is a radiant dew,
and the earth will give birth to those long dead"
(Isaiah 26:19)

Among the more clear references to immortality is that in Daniel (12:2) "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
Then there are the "non-Canonical" texts that nonetheless testify to beliefs held at least in some Jewish circles before Jesus, such as the Wisdom of Solomon which is quite explicit that souls are immortal.
However we can see that Jesus and his Apostles never taught such a thing, for the teaching that the soul is immortal is in direct conflict with Jesus' promise of a resurrection, because if a person is immortal (can never die), he/she can never be resurrected ('stand again').

Notice that the doctrine of the immortality of the human soul is totally without support from the Bible.

I notice the contrary.

But if this is true, then why did Jesus say what he did as found at Matthew 10:28, where we read:
'Don't fear those who can kill the body,
But can't kill the person inside (gr. psyche).
Rather, fear the One who can fully discard (gr. apolesai),
The person and the body in the garbage (gr. geenne).'

καὶ μὴ φοβεῖσθε ἀπὸ τῶν ἀποκτεννόντων τὸ σῶμα τὴν δὲ ψυχὴν μὴ δυναμένων ἀποκτεῖναι· φοβεῖσθε δὲ μᾶλλ ον τὸν δυνάμενον καὶ ψυχὴν καὶ σῶμα ἀπολέσαι ἐν γεέννῃ
"Don't fear those killing the body but not being able to kill the soul; rather fear him able to ruin/corrupt/destroy the body and soul in Gehenna ((א)םֶרנִֹּה; hell)."
Jesus describes killing the body (or those who can kill the body, ton apoktennonton) with the typical verb meaning "to kill": ἀποκτείνω. The word that describes what can happen to the body and soul in Hell is ἀπόλλυμι, which prototypically means something like "lose" and by extension perish, ruin, destroy, etc. It does not mean that Jesus is saying the soul isn't immortal, because apart from anything else the reference to Gehenna is one to afterlife.

What was Jesus actually saying? In this case he appears to be using the word psyche (soul) to refer to the value of life that remains with God until the resurrection. He obviously isn't referring to the soul as being immortal in this instance, because he says that God will discard or destroy the [unrighteous] soul or person."

...with the connotation of corruption.

Words in the Scriptures can have different meanings, like "earth": it can mean the entire ground (Isaiah 45:18), or it can mean the people (Genesis 11:1). Many other examples. Context is important. And the entire Bible may have to be used for context. You have to let the Bible speak, in its entirety.

So is knowing the actual language.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Actually, the pagan conception of the psyche was quite similar to early Jewish belief. The descriptions of Hades found as early as the Homeric epics share much with the Jewish conception of Sheol: the soul is a shadowy thing haunting a dank, depressing, netherworld (you might be interested in Shades of Sheol: Death and Afterlife in the Old Testament). There are many different instances in pre-Christian Jewish scripture indicating the survival of the "soul" or something like it beyond death. These range from instances of necromancy (recall the witch of Endor who conjured up Samuel's ghost for Saul) to rather vague references to resurrection, e.g., "YHWH kills and brings to life; he brings down to Sheol and raises up" (1 Sam. 2:6) or
"Your dead shall live, their corpses shall rise.
O dwellers in the dust, awake and sing for joy!
For your dew is a radiant dew,
and the earth will give birth to those long dead"
(Isaiah 26:19)

Among the more clear references to immortality is that in Daniel (12:2) "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
Then there are the "non-Canonical" texts that nonetheless testify to beliefs held at least in some Jewish circles before Jesus, such as the Wisdom of Solomon which is quite explicit that souls are immortal.
However we can see that Jesus and his Apostles never taught such a thing, for the teaching that the soul is immortal is in direct conflict with Jesus' promise of a resurrection, because if a person is immortal (can never die), he/she can never be resurrected ('stand again').


I notice the contrary.


καὶ μὴ φοβεῖσθε ἀπὸ τῶν ἀποκτεννόντων τὸ σῶμα τὴν δὲ ψυχὴν μὴ δυναμένων ἀποκτεῖναι· φοβεῖσθε δὲ μᾶλλ ον τὸν δυνάμενον καὶ ψυχὴν καὶ σῶμα ἀπολέσαι ἐν γεέννῃ
"Don't fear those killing the body but not being able to kill the soul; rather fear him able to ruin/corrupt/destroy the body and soul in Gehenna ((א)םֶרנִֹּה; hell)."
Jesus describes killing the body (or those who can kill the body, ton apoktennonton) with the typical verb meaning "to kill": ἀποκτείνω. The word that describes what can happen to the body and soul in Hell is ἀπόλλυμι, which prototypically means something like "lose" and by extension perish, ruin, destroy, etc. It does not mean that Jesus is saying the soul isn't immortal, because apart from anything else the reference to Gehenna is one to afterlife.




...with the connotation of corruption.



So is knowing the actual language.

You are basing your statements on preconceived ideas of what you think some texts are saying, to the exclusion of other passages. The thoughts presented in the OT Bible were Aramaic and ancient Hebrew, not modern. And as the language changed, so did philosophical ideas, being corrupted by pagan influence. But one can find the original intent of those writers, by examining all the pertinent Scriptures and reasoning on them.

For one, Daniel 12:2 is referring to the Resurrection, not immortality! Indeed, Why would one need a resurrection, which means "stand back to life", if one is already living as an immortal? That is contrary!

As for Samuel: Samuel refused to see Saul anymore, after Saul was disowned by Jehovah. But after Samuel died, he could then be "forced" to see Saul? No....it was simply a demon (fallen angel) who was impostering dead Samuel.

Why do you think Jehovah God told the Israelites to abhor talking with the dead, to not do it?! (Deuteronomy 18:10-12) People who do (going to seances, spirit mediums, fortune tellers, etc.) are getting involved, not with God's power, but with Satan's. Certainly if we really could, how it would ease our mind about our dead loved ones, and God being love, wouldn't deny us that! (In examining Scripture, we should proceed in the understanding that God is love.)

But the dead are "asleep in the ground of dust." Jesus' words regarding Lazarus at John 11:11-14 emphasize the point again.

Yet the belief that the dead are 'living somewhere else (heaven or hell)' is everywhere.

All these instances earth wide, of people saying they can talk with their dead, they are being deceived and misled....the Devil tries to keep on promoting the lie he told Eve, in Genesis 3, "You positively will not die."

Yes, the Devil is "misleading the entire inhabited earth"! -- Revelation 12:9

Take care.

 

[12jtartar]

Well, allow me to offer a third perspective, different from both HockeyCowboy's and Carlita's. I believe that the "soul" is the entity that results when the "spirit" (aka "the breath of life) enters a physical body, giving it life. Genesis 2:7 says, "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Clearly, a "breath of life" and a lifeless body both existed before the two came together. Once the breath of life was within the body God created for Adam, Adam was "a living soul." In Luke 23:46, we read of Jesus' death: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." When we die, as when Jesus died, our spirit (or our breath of life) leaves our body and our body is said to be dead.

During the 3-day period of time during which Jesus' body lay in the tomb, His spirit visited the spirits of those in prison and preached His gospel to them. I don't know how a dead spirit could have done that, nor do I know how the spirits who heard Him speak would have been able to do so had they also been dead. So, I believe that the spirit, the breath of life, is eternal. It can exist either within a physical body, giving life to that body, or it can exist independently of a physical body.

I believe the words "spirit" and "soul" to have different meanings, but we find them used interchangeably in the Bible from time to time. We sometimes have to look at the context to understand the meaning of the word that was used.

Katzpur,
One big reason that people cannot understand many concepts of the Bible, is that they do not understand what death really is. Without the proper understanding of death, truth will elude you.
I don't know about you, but I am a Bibliist, which means that I do not listen to what people say the Bible says, but what it actually says itself. I form all my beliefs according to what the Bible says!!!
Let's look up a few Scriptures that will allow us to realize what Death is according to the Bible.
Consider what God told Adam about death, Genesis 2:17, 3:19.
Then look at a description of death, Ecclesiastes 3:18-20. Here we are told that both animals and men are all made of dust and both will return to the dust. Exactly what the condition of the dead is explained to us at Ecclesiastes 9:5,6, according to these Scriptures the dead know nothing!! The same is said also, at 9:10, no work, no knowledge. Therefore a person who has died cannot do anything, for they no longer exist, Job 14:2, and a dead person does not even know thing that happen to his son, Job 14:21. The dead cannot even praise the creator, Psalms 6:4,5, 115:17.
Think about this, Satan told Eve that she would not die, as God told them that they would, Genesis 3:2-4. If you believe that a dead person can do anything, or even knows anything, are you not telling the very same lie that Satan told Eve??
In your post, you misstated what is said about Jesus, at 1Peter 3:18. Jesus did not preach to the spirits during the parts of three days that he was dead, but he was put to death in the flesh, and made alive in the spirit, and in that state, he went and preached to the spirits in prison. Another point is recorded at 2Corinthians 5:16, where we are told that Jesus disciples will not see Jesus again, in the flesh.
Remember, Jesus was made a little LOWER than Angels, when a man on earth, Hebrews 2:9. Angels are far superior to flesh and blood man, 2Peter 2:11, so when Jesus was resurrected to life again he was exalted above even angels, as a mighty spirit creature, Philippians 2:9-11.
Another point about Jesus, as a mighty spirit, flesh and blood cannot inherit The Kingdom of God, but Jesus is the King of The Kingdom, 1Corinthians 15:42-50. Jesus is now immortal, he cannot die again, Romans 6:9. Even the second death has no hold on Jesus, Revelation 2:11. The second death has no hold on Jesus ans also no hold on the Anointed, Holy Ones, Saints, that will be Co-Rulers with Jesus in heaven, Revelation 20:4-6, Romans 8:14-17, 1Corinthians 15:52-54.

 

[Sleeppy]

Immortal? Far from it. The spirit of Cain however endures to the age in shame and contempt.