What is the soul, according to the Bible?

[moorea944]

The following is an excerpt from UCG.org:

"Many readers assume that Elijah at that point was made immortal and taken to the heaven where God resides. This was not the case. The sons of the prophets knew otherwise. They knew the whirlwind had simply removed Elijah to another location on earth. They exclaimed to Elisha: “Look now, there are fifty strong men with your servants. Please let them go and search for your master, lest perhaps the Spirit of the Lord has taken him up and cast him upon some mountain or into some valley” (2 Kings 2:16).

The disciples were concerned for Elijah’s safety, so they sent out a party of 50 men to search for him. The 50 searched for three days but did not find him (2 Kings 2:17).

Another passage proves conclusively that Elijah was not taken up to live in heaven. The Bible records that Elijah wrote a letter to Jehoram, the king of Judah, several years after he was removed in the whirlwind.

Notice the sequence of events recorded for us in the Bible. Elijah’s last recorded and dated act occurred during the reign of the Israelite king Ahaziah when Elijah told the king he would die for his sins (2 Kings 1:3-17). Ahaziah’s reign lasted only about a year, ca. 850 B.C.

Elijah’s removal and replacement by Elisha is then recorded in the next chapter, 2 Kings 2. The story continues with incidents from Elisha’s life, including an encounter with Jehoshaphat, king of Judah (2 Kings 3:11-14). Several years later Jehoram, son of Jehoshaphat, succeeded his father as king of Judah, ca. 845 B.C.(2 Kings 8:16).

Jehoram proved to be a wicked king, leading the nation of Judah in rebellion against God’s commandments. A few years into Jehoram’s reign, and several years after Elijah’s removal, Jehoram received a letter from Elijah warning the king of dire consequences because of his sins. This letter is recorded in 2 Chronicles 21:12-15.

This letter proves that the prophet was still alive and on earth some years after he was removed by the whirlwind and replaced by Elisha. God had chosen Elisha to succeed Elijah as His prophet, so He bodily removed Elijah to another place, where he continued to live for at least several more years—as his letter to Jehoram demonstrates.

The Bible tells us nothing more about Elijah’s life following his writing of the letter. But he eventually died, just like the other prophets and righteous men of the Old Testament, who all died in faith, not yet receiving the eternal life God had promised (Hebrews 11:39).

Again, a careful reading of the Scriptures shows that Elijah’s miraculous removal by a fiery chariot involved transporting him to another location on earth, not to eternal life in heaven."

(I certainly don't agree with everything this site says, but they got this right.)(I used it to simply prove, it's not only Jehovah's Witnesses who teach this.)

The fact that Elijah didn't die, is further shown in that Elisha did not mourn him, as was the custom when someone close, died back then. But he sure missed him.

Pauls words in Philippians 1:23 must be understood in light of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Especially note the future tense used, as in "will rise first." Reminds one of Jesus' usage in John 5:28-29 and John 6:39-44, (vss.39,40,&44)

Why do you want me to explain scriptures you present, but don't explain passages that I present? Is that fair?

Again, why bring back to life (resurrect) the righteous and unrighteous dead, if they're already living somewhere else?

(See my OP, and my replies on that first page.)

So long.

So true! Elijah did not go to Heaven where God dwells. He went up into the heavens with an "s". Big difference. He was placed somewhere else. John also says that no one has ever gone to heaven. Plus, he writes a letter seven years later to the King.

Moses and Elijah on the mountain was a vision, not real. They were not resurrected from the grave or sent down from Heaven (as some people believe). It was made to make a point to the disciples that were with Jesus.

Plus, Hebrews 11 tells us that no one has received their reward or promises yet. Jesus also tells us that when he comes back (to earth) he will then raise the dead.
Great post though!!

 

[allright]

[

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Please answer the question

"Why did Paul say his desire was to depart and be with the Lord if his choice was to continue his mission on earth or lie unconscious rotting in the ground

 

[Deeje]

Please answer the question

"Why did Paul say his desire was to depart and be with the Lord if his choice was to continue his mission on earth or lie unconscious rotting in the ground

Perhaps you need to read Paul's explanation and see what he was talking about.....?

1 Thess 4:13-17:
The Comfort of Christ’s Coming
13 We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, concerning those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who have no hope. 14 Since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, in the same way God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus. 15 For we say this to you by a revelation from the Lord: We who are still alive at the Lord’s coming will certainly have no advantage over those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the archangel’s voice, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord. (Holman)

What was Paul clearly saying that his expectation was? Not to grieve too deeply when someone dies (falls asleep.) For the most part, those who "sleep" in death have no advantage over those who are still alive on earth because the Lord, on his return, will call all of his chosen ones out of their graves and take them "home" with him to the place he has prepared for them. They don't go to heaven when they die...they sleep until Christ calls them and they all go to heaven together, so no resurrection was to take place until Christ's return.

Paul's desire, like all other spirit anointed Christians, was to be with his Lord, but he knew that they must first sleep until all was ready for them to take their place in the kingdom as "kings and priests" (Rev 20:6) Christ would come and take them to heaven when it was time. Paul was unaware of how long some of them would need to "sleep"....but since time ceases at death, it doesn't matter. (Eccl 9:5, 10) They have no knowledge of how long they have slept or of how much time has elapsed.

 

[12jtartar]

Katzpur,
I hope you don't mind me adding a little to what you have posted about the soul.
Most of what you have written is accurate, right from the Holy Scriptures, but there is one point I believe you hve

 

[12jtartar]

Katzpur,
I hope you don't mind me adding a little to your post. Most of what you wrote was accurate, but there is a little more that needs to be stated to get to the whole truth.
First, something that most do not realize. The term soul, Nephesh in Hebrew, means the life of a living being, whether man or animal. If you have a concordance look up creature, and you will see that, in Genesis 1:21, 1:24, 2:19, 9:10, 9:15, 9:16, all these are souls, Nephesh, just as Genesis 2:7, where Adam is called a soul, Nephesh.
Nephesh, soul, has several meanings, it is even used for God, meaning His life, Psalms 11:5, Proverbs 6:16, Leviticus 26:11,30, Isaiah 42:1, and several other places.
Also the word soul, means your everlasting life, when contrasted with fleshly death, Matthew 10:28
The Bible even uses the term, dead soul, meaning a body that has died, Leviticus 19:28, 21:1, 11, Numbers 5:2, 19:11,13.
One other point, 1Peter 3:18 says that Jesus was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the Spirit, and by that state he went and preached to the spirits in prison. Jesus was resurrected as a spirit person the same as he was before coming to earth, 1Corinthians 15:42-46. Remember, when Jesus was a flesh and blood person, he was lower than Angels, Hebrews 2:9. Jesus has now been exalted higher than Angels, Philippians 2:9-11, Hebrews 1:4,6, 1Peter 2:11.
Remember, flesh and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom. God's Kingdom is in heaven. Flesh and blood cannot live in heaven!!! Mankind will always be subject to the natural laws!!!

 

[Katzpur]

Katzpur,
I hope you don't mind me adding a little to your post. Most of what you wrote was accurate, but there is a little more that needs to be stated to get to the whole truth.
First, something that most do not realize. The term soul, Nephesh in Hebrew, means the life of a living being, whether man or animal. If you have a concordance look up creature, and you will see that, in Genesis 1:21, 1:24, 2:19, 9:10, 9:15, 9:16, all these are souls, Nephesh, just as Genesis 2:7, where Adam is called a soul, Nephesh.
Nephesh, soul, has several meanings, it is even used for God, meaning His life, Psalms 11:5, Proverbs 6:16, Leviticus 26:11,30, Isaiah 42:1, and several other places.
Also the word soul, means your everlasting life, when contrasted with fleshly death, Matthew 10:28
The Bible even uses the term, dead soul, meaning a body that has died, Leviticus 19:28, 21:1, 11, Numbers 5:2, 19:11,13.
One other point, 1Peter 3:18 says that Jesus was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the Spirit, and by that state he went and preached to the spirits in prison. Jesus was resurrected as a spirit person the same as he was before coming to earth, 1Corinthians 15:42-46. Remember, when Jesus was a flesh and blood person, he was lower than Angels, Hebrews 2:9. Jesus has now been exalted higher than Angels, Philippians 2:9-11, Hebrews 1:4,6, 1Peter 2:11.
Remember, flesh and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom. God's Kingdom is in heaven. Flesh and blood cannot live in heaven!!! Mankind will always be subject to the natural laws!!!

Of course I don't mind your comments. I will have to tell you, though, that I disagree with your terminology, and I see your interpretations to be as flawed as you see mine. The Bible uses two phrases which I believe you have misunderstood. They are, "flesh and blood" and "flesh and bones." These are not referring specifically to flesh, blood, or bones. Whenever we see the phrase, "flesh and blood," it is used as a metaphor for "mortal man." When Peter recognized that Jesus Christ was, indeed, "the Christ, the Son of the Living God," Jesus pointed out to him that "flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." Flesh can't talk, nor can blood. Jesus clearly wasn't referring to these substances themselves, but to what they represented -- mortal man. He was telling Peter that no matter how wise a mortal man may be, it is only through our Father in Heaven that we are able to know the truth of certain things. There are seven examples of this phrase in the Bible, and in none of them are the words "flesh" and "blood" used to refer to the substances themselves; in every single instance, they are used to refer to human beings in their mortal state.

The only place "flesh and bones" is found in the scriptures is when the resurrected Christ points out to His apostles that He is more than merely spirit. He has a body of "flesh and bones." He invites them to touch Him wounds and to determine for themselves that He has physical substance. He is a resurrected being. His body no longer lies in the tomb, but has been given new life. His spirit, which He commended to His Father's keeping right before He died, has re-entered His body. He is now alive again. But notice, He doesn't say that He is "flesh and blood" because He doesn't want them to mistakenly believe He is just a "mortal man." He has the same body He had during His mortal life, and His wounds prove this. The difference is that He is now immortal. He will never die again. He can't be injured again. He has a corporeal body, a body which can be touched and felt, a body He refers to as "flesh and bones." It's a body you could throw your arms around and embrace, and I suspect there are billions of people who are looking forward to the moment when they can do just that.

So, "flesh and blood" = mortal man, and "flesh and bones" = a being with corporeal substance. I know you won't agree with that interpretation, but I am quite convinced that Jesus Christ would not have misrepresented himself to His apostles. He would not have pretended to be something that He wasn't. During the next forty day, He spent time with them. He walked and talked with them. He dined with them. And, when He ascended into Heaven, He still had a corporeal, although immortal body. That's how He left them and that's how He said He would return to begin His millennial reign.

The bottom line is that mortal man cannot live in Heaven, but there is nothing in the scriptures to imply that nothing in Heaven is corporeal in nature.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Perhaps you need to read Paul's explanation and see what he was talking about.....?

1 Thess 4:13-17:
The Comfort of Christ’s Coming
13 We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, concerning those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who have no hope. 14 Since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, in the same way God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus. 15 For we say this to you by a revelation from the Lord: We who are still alive at the Lord’s coming will certainly have no advantage over those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the archangel’s voice, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord. (Holman)

What was Paul clearly saying that his expectation was? Not to grieve too deeply when someone dies (falls asleep.) For the most part, those who "sleep" in death have no advantage over those who are still alive on earth because the Lord, on his return, will call all of his chosen ones out of their graves and take them "home" with him to the place he has prepared for them. They don't go to heaven when they die...they sleep until Christ calls them and they all go to heaven together, so no resurrection was to take place until Christ's return.

Paul's desire, like all other spirit anointed Christians, was to be with his Lord, but he knew that they must first sleep until all was ready for them to take their place in the kingdom as "kings and priests" (Rev 20:6) Christ would come and take them to heaven when it was time. Paul was unaware of how long some of them would need to "sleep"....but since time ceases at death, it doesn't matter. (Eccl 9:5, 10) They have no knowledge of how long they have slept or of how much time has elapsed.

Thank you! I was actually thinking about asking you to reply in my stead! Isn't it great, that we can speak for each other on spiritual issues?

Take care, my sister!

 

[moorea944]

Katzpur,
I hope you don't mind me adding a little to your post. Most of what you wrote was accurate, but there is a little more that needs to be stated to get to the whole truth.
First, something that most do not realize. The term soul, Nephesh in Hebrew, means the life of a living being, whether man or animal. If you have a concordance look up creature, and you will see that, in Genesis 1:21, 1:24, 2:19, 9:10, 9:15, 9:16, all these are souls, Nephesh, just as Genesis 2:7, where Adam is called a soul, Nephesh.
Nephesh, soul, has several meanings, it is even used for God, meaning His life, Psalms 11:5, Proverbs 6:16, Leviticus 26:11,30, Isaiah 42:1, and several other places.
Also the word soul, means your everlasting life, when contrasted with fleshly death, Matthew 10:28
The Bible even uses the term, dead soul, meaning a body that has died, Leviticus 19:28, 21:1, 11, Numbers 5:2, 19:11,13.
One other point, 1Peter 3:18 says that Jesus was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the Spirit, and by that state he went and preached to the spirits in prison. Jesus was resurrected as a spirit person the same as he was before coming to earth, 1Corinthians 15:42-46. Remember, when Jesus was a flesh and blood person, he was lower than Angels, Hebrews 2:9. Jesus has now been exalted higher than Angels, Philippians 2:9-11, Hebrews 1:4,6, 1Peter 2:11.
Remember, flesh and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom. God's Kingdom is in heaven. Flesh and blood cannot live in heaven!!! Mankind will always be subject to the natural laws!!!

Remember, flesh and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom.

How true! That is why we have to be changed to immortality before we are accepted in the Kingdom.

God's Kingdom is in heaven. Flesh and blood cannot live in heaven!

Actually, it's not talking about that. IT's talking about a "coming Kingdom" that will be "set up" on earth. Has nothing to do with going to heaven. No where in scripture does it tell us that we go anywhere after death or into Heaven it's self. Sorry. A coming Kingdom is all through scripture, esp, OT.

 

[12jtartar]

katzpur,
When the Bible states things, whether it is speaking about a specific point, or just touches on the point as a side point, the Bible is always accurate. You seem to only believe what you already believe, and have, what are called , Sacred Cows, or Home Truths, that you hold so deep in your heart, that you just will not allow new thoughts to ferret out these ideas. An intellectually honest person will consider, and investigate new thoughts, especially when Bible Scriptures are used.
Consider what is said at 2Corinthians 10:3-5, which tell that Christians would be teaching things that would tear down false beliefs, and many of these things are deep seated, Sacred Cows. Consider these Scriptures also, John 16:2-4, where Jesus warns that people would get so far from the truth in their beliefs, that they would actually kill True Christians, thinking that they were doing a sacred service to God. Do not allow yourself to be blinded, 2Corinthians 4:3,4, 11:12-15. A very important thing to remember is, over the many years since Jesus walked the earth, many false doctrines have entered into the congregations, just as Jesus, Paul,and Peter warned, Matthew 7:15,19, 21-23, Acts 20:29,29, 2Timothy 4:2-5, 2Peter 2:1-3, also Titus 1:16.
I consider myself to be a Biblist, meaning, I believe that the Bible is the only rule on faith and Doctrine. Please do not put your trust in what people SAY the Bible says, but learn exactly what the Bible does say, Psalms 146:3,4.
Remember, the Bible says that Jesus went and preached to spirits in prison, 1Peter 3:18,19, notice Jesus was put to death in the flesh and made alive in the spirit, and in that state, he preached to the spirits in prison. Remember also, Jesus disciples said that they would not know Jesus in the flesh anymore, 2Corinthians 5:16. Think about this; when Jesus died to ransom mankind he gave his body as the sacrifice. He cannot still have a fleshly body again, because that is what he presented to God on behalf of men, Hebrews 9:13,14.
After Jesus was resurrected, he assumed different bodies!!! We can see that, because, even his close disciples did not recognize him, until he made himself known. Consider that Jesus just disappeared on the occasion of the two men walking on a road, Luke 24:13-35. Jesus went through the walls after his resurrection, and even Mary Magdalene did not recognize Jesus, John 20:19, 20:11-17.
When Jesus said that spirits do not have flesh and bones as I have, he meant that spirits cannot actually incarnate a flesh and bones body, but Jesus could and did several times.
Even though Jesus remained on the earth 40 days after his resurrection, only his disciples were able to see him, as he appeared to them, 1Corinthians 15:3-8.

 

[Katzpur]

katzpur,
When the Bible states things, whether it is speaking about a specific point, or just touches on the point as a side point, the Bible is always accurate. You seem to only believe what you already believe, and have, what are called , Sacred Cows, or Home Truths, that you hold so deep in your heart, that you just will not allow new thoughts to ferret out these ideas. An intellectually honest person will consider, and investigate new thoughts, especially when Bible Scriptures are used.

Sorry, jtartar, but from my perspective, you are guilty of exactly what you are accusing me of. When you imply that I am not being "intellectually honest" just because I see things differently than you do, it's hard for me to want to engage in further conversation with you. Therefore, I have nothing more to say to you.

 

[savagewind]

katzpur,
When the Bible states things, whether it is speaking about a specific point, or just touches on the point as a side point, the Bible is always accurate.
.

The Bible? Don't you mean the Word? The word is always true. The Bible is a book about the word written by humans. Humans can make mistakes. God does not make mistakes. Therefore, I hear you calling the Bible, God.