What is the True Purpose of Life?

[Brian Schuh]

A time to live and a time to die. What meaning is there in that?

The author debunks everything that people believe is the purpose and meaning of life. Meaningless, meaningless, everything is meaningless. He even ends the book saying that.

Read a little closer.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You have good points. Some I disagree with mostly because our morals are different.

Animals, with a couple of unlikely exceptions, don't have full self-awareness. They aren't aware of the inevitability or universality of death. And most likely, they are able to imagine themselves in another one's place. These are absolute prerequisites for the ability to be moral. Animals, and even young children, not having these abilities, are innocent.

I actually find animal awareness a lot more keener and moral than human awareness. They don't have to worry about or be aware so much in order to worry about things like their child dying or trying to find ways to cure an chronic illness I and others live with until death. They don't have to worry about finding food their children. They do the best they can to find food and don't have the awareness to think about the morals and interpretation of suffering if they can't find food.

It's pure.

Yes, but death is the compulsion that drives us to make sense of it all. But all too often we go for the easy emotional cop-out.

I haven't had that growing up. I probably never would if my mother never brought me to church just to make what she envisioned as a perfect family. It isn't innate to find or purpose. Do babies try to find their purpose or are they pure like animals and do what they do? It's the parents that tell them they have purpose and they live by or are indoctrinated with now wanting a purpose not needing in to survive.

Perfectly pointless/meaningless.

I disagree.

I hope for something beyond just living and dying with nothing more. You may say, make the most of what you've got, and I agree. If you deny that hope, you also deny any hope for a person who is tortured endlessly all their life. I know, life ain't fair, but that's beyond the pale--and it happens. I don't claim that it's reasonable, only that it's not unreasonable.

I feel if we are uncomfortable with "not knowing" then we don't have to hope we Live. I feel and glad that I can take a breathe and appreciate that next breathe as a prayer and spiritual action and not something automatic and taken for granted. I hope that I can live a healthy life; and, I accept that I will not one hundred percent. I have to be comfortable with life, age, sickness, and death. I have to find the balance and reach that point of enlightenment or full awareness.

Hope doesn't sustain me. I personally find it useless in my spiritual walk. Knowledge, or what I know, sustains me. I don't hope that my family is taking care of me after their passing. I know because I experienced their presence. I don't hope that I continue after life. I know because nothing disappears out of thin air. We are in a continued state of existence. I don't hope that there should be a purpose of life. Our purpose is to live, breathe, stay healthy: by birth, age, accepting sickness and death. We continue on until we find that balance where life/death does not exist. That is the purpose of life. My purpose is to rejoin with family.

That's just me. We have different morals.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

You have good points. Some I disagree with mostly because our morals are different.


I actually find animal awareness a lot more keener and moral than human awareness. They don't have to worry about or be aware so much in order to worry about things like their child dying or trying to find ways to cure an chronic illness I and others live with until death. They don't have to worry about finding food their children. They do the best they can to find food and don't have the awareness to think about the morals and interpretation of suffering if they can't find food.

It's pure.

Yes, pure bliss.

I haven't had that growing up. I probably never would if my mother never brought me to church just to make what she envisioned as a perfect family. It isn't innate to find or purpose. Do babies try to find their purpose or are they pure like animals and do what they do? It's the parents that tell them they have purpose and they live by or are indoctrinated with now wanting a purpose not needing in to survive.

Like I say, young children (pre-2) are not self-aware. They don't understand the concept of "I" or"you", "mine" or yours, until then. And I think we do innately want to belong and contribute, as well as to be rewarded and appreciated for our efforts. Most of us want have our individuality while at the same time fitting in.

I disagree.

On what grounds?

I feel if we are uncomfortable with "not knowing" then we don't have to hope we Live.

Though I very much wasn't comfortable with it a first (it felt like walking off a cliff), but I have made my peace with the possibility of oblivion. But I still hope for a hereafter.

Hope doesn't sustain me. I personally find it useless in my spiritual walk. Knowledge, or what I know, sustains me. I don't hope that my family is taking care of me after their passing. I know because I experienced their presence. I don't hope that I continue after life. I know because nothing disappears out of thin air. We are in a continued state of existence. I don't hope that there should be a purpose of life. Our purpose is to live, breathe, stay healthy: by birth, age, accepting sickness and death. We continue on until we find that balance where life/death does not exist. That is the purpose of life. My purpose is to rejoin with family.

No comment

That's just me. We have different morals.

How are they different?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Everyone running around saying this must be my purpose, or that must be my purpose are doomed to fail. The only time someone can tell you their "purpose" is after the fact. For instance, one cannot say my purpose in life was to save a child who had fallen down a well until the child has been rescued. No one can get up in the morning and truthfully say my purpose is this or that. I believe that if you do not waste time on determining why you are here you can spend more time simply living. If there is no purpose, there can be no failure.

You seem to think that if one has a purpose, one must either fulfil that purpose (and then what?) or fail. But can one not partially fulfil one's purpose (or partially fail to fulfil it)?

Something - a chair, say - can be created for a particular purpose (perhaps for a defined period of time) and can fulfil that purpose (for a period of time), or only partially fulfil that purpose, or fail to fulfil that purpose. And by the same token, one can know, or be told, what one's purpose is and then in principle go on to fulfil it, only partially fulfil it or fail to fulfil it (depending on what the purpose is, and various other factors).

 

[Brian Schuh]

Why do people think they need to know what their purpose is? A chair I am sitting on is serving it's purpose and doesn't even know it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This will hopefully answer your last question:

Yes, pure bliss.

Rolling your eyes sounds like you disagree. If so, our morals are different because they disagree. On what grounds? You mentioned:

Animals, with a couple of unlikely exceptions, don't have full self-awareness. They aren't aware of the inevitability or universality of death. And most likely, they are able to imagine themselves in another one's place. These are absolute prerequisites for the ability to be moral. Animals, and even young children, not having these abilities, are innocent.​

We see differently. Animals are keen and aware than human beings. Their inability to process what they are aware of does not devalue the fact they don't have all the mess we have that clouds our natural skills both in mind and body.

Children are innocent, yes; and, that is another reason I find them more keen than human beings. They see things the way they are rather than trying to interpret them through these conflicting beliefs, bias, and quote on qoute morals we try to put on others and animals rather than live them to bring healthy living to ourselves and our like-minded community.

Like I say, young children (pre-2) are not self-aware. They don't understand the concept of "I" or"you", "mine" or yours, until then. And I think we do innately want to belong and contribute, as well as to be rewarded and appreciated for our efforts. Most of us want have our individuality while at the same time fitting in.

I disagree. On what grounds? They are more aware than a lot of us. The issue is, we define it as " I ", you, me, etc. We keep labeling things and then our awareness resolves into bias.

That's natural/psychology given we tend to gravitate towards those like us.

On what grounds?

You mentioned: Foundationless hearsay. It makes more sense to say the purpose of life is to breathe.
​

It is. The purpose of life is to breathe. It is perfect. It is pure. It is back to our true nature. It is Zen. On what grounds? The characteristics of Zen which I just mentioned.

Though I very much wasn't comfortable with it a first (it felt like walking off a cliff), but I have made my peace with the possibility of oblivion. But I still hope for a hereafter.

That's good.

No comment

Okay.

How are they different?

1. We disagree with how animals are aware. I feel they are, you don't (not in the same compacity as humans)

2. I believe a child is aware. You do not. We both agree children are innocent. I believe that a child's first religion is the connection between his mother and himself. I also believe that not knowing words like I, me, et cetera doesn't devalue (more like it does the opposite) that he is aware and more innocent than we who grow up and influenced by all of the bias in the world.

3. I don't know if you agree with me but I feel the purpose in life is to breathe, to put it in symbolic and literal terms.

4. I don't share the same view that we need hope. I don't live on home just what I know; and, that is the foundation of my faith and interaction with everything. Experiences and all.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Why do people think they need to know what their purpose is? A chair I am sitting on is serving it's purpose and doesn't even know it.

People often feel the need to know many things. Why some people think they need to know what their purpose is is a good question. I would say because deep down inside they know they have a purpose but cannot remember what it is.
How do you know that the chair doesn't know its purpose?

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Rolling your eyes sounds like you disagree. If so, our morals are different because they disagree.

Ignorance, bliss, you know the drill.

On what grounds? You mentioned:

We see differently. Animals are keen and aware than human beings. Their inability to process what they are aware of does not devalue the fact they don't have all the mess we have that clouds our natural skills both in mind and body.

Yes, they are very aware and often have better sensory gathering abilities than we. But they are not self aware, which is the source of our moral free will. I'm slowly coming to realize that most people don't understand how valuable, how important those to things are. And if this is a test as I believe it is, we sentients are the only ones that can pass it. And we can't pass judgement on what passing the test might mean until we graduate. For now, we have to make the most of our individual situations--and do the right thing, make the moral choices, which only we are equipped to make.

Children are innocent, yes; and, that is another reason I find them more keen than human beings. They see things the way they are rather than trying to interpret them through these conflicting beliefs, bias, and quote on qoute morals we try to put on others and animals rather than live them to bring healthy living to ourselves and our like-minded community.

So if you had the choice, you'd choose not to have self-awareness and free will? Your mental maturity would never get past 2?

I disagree. On what grounds? They are more aware than a lot of us. The issue is, we define it as " I ", you, me, etc. We keep labeling things and then our awareness resolves into bias.

Without it, you'll never be able to realize you're you.

That's natural/psychology given we tend to gravitate towards those like us.

Yes, but it isn't a bad thing. Even animals do that.

It is. The purpose of life is to breathe. It is perfect. It is pure. It is back to our true nature. It is Zen. On what grounds? The characteristics of Zen which I just mentioned.

Grass breathes. When it dies, it doesn't know the difference because it never knew it was alive, and neither does a cow. Just being part of nature is all any of us should really need, and forget about desire???

1. We disagree with how animals are aware. I feel they are, you don't (not in the same compacity as humans)

You keep saying simply aware and not making the distinction between self-aware which is a monumental gulf.

3. I don't know if you agree with me but I feel the purpose in life is to breathe, to put it in symbolic and literal terms.

That isn't a purpose, it's a manifestation. Do you have no desires?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The core of our purpose is awareness not self-awareness. We keep putting awareness on a back burner as if our morals and beliefs superseded the nature of life

When a frog sits and waits for his food, he is aware yes. As you say in context, he isn't self aware. That isn't wrong. That is actually beautiful. It is the foundation of our purpose is to first come back to our childlike state and just Be. Just Be aware. Don't attach labels: desires, morals, free will, god, this, that. Just Be. That is Zen. Perfect. Innocence. Childlike. As adults, we forget what it's like o be a child. Why? Do we feel we are so important in our self awareness that to be a blank slate and innocent is primitive?

Yes, I would love to go back as a child and be just aware and just Be. Yet, the human mind in today's society has made it so complicated that to do that I'd have to go into a very deep state of meditation. I have to at least see myself as a child and be innocent in what I do and how I see things without bias, without preset beliefs, just be. Nothing wrong or immoral about that.

I'm not saying self-awareness is wrong. I find more benefit and beauty in awareness because it's going back to our childlike state; and, as an adult, I feel I need that child-like state to Be. Yes, I have my purpose in life; however, to live the purpose I need to know the difference between my purpose and the purpose. I should not depend on my purpose because we change. We are in an ever changing cycle and our beliefs and morals change as we grow older. Our self-awareness matures (or not) and we see things differently.

If only I can find that balance, that is the most beautiful state I can think of.

Ignorance, bliss, you know the drill.

On what grounds? You mentioned:

Yes, they are very aware and often have better sensory gathering abilities than we. But they are not self aware, which is the source of our moral free will. I'm slowly coming to realize that most people don't understand how valuable, how important those to things are. And if this is a test as I believe it is, we sentients are the only ones that can pass it. And we can't pass judgement on what passing the test might mean until we graduate. For now, we have to make the most of our individual situations--and do the right thing, make the moral choices, which only we are equipped to make.

So if you had the choice, you'd choose not to have self-awareness and free will? Your mental maturity would never get past 2?

Without it, you'll never be able to realize you're you.

Yes, but it isn't a bad thing. Even animals do that.

Grass breathes. When it dies, it doesn't know the difference because it never knew it was alive, and neither does a cow. Just being part of nature is all any of us should really need, and forget about desire???

You keep saying simply aware and not making the distinction between self-aware which is a monumental gulf.

That isn't a purpose, it's a manifestation. Do you have no desires?

I also think self awareness is also a part of the ego wanting to know everything. For example, if I made love to someone and kept myself self-aware of it, then I am going by my ego-by my desires. I am falling into lust. If I was aware and went with the flow--the freedom of expression and melting between two souls--lust doesn't exist. We will just Be. We would not label i as desire or not because we will recognize it without having to analyze it. We can think about it, philosophize, et cetera; however, I personally want to go beyond trying to find out "why" and just Be. I see nothing wrong with that. If anything, that is self-awareness there. When you can drop the labels and naturally pick up on who you are.

Your awareness becomes more keen and sharp like many animals who hunt for food. I guess it's alright to label self-awareness by labels: desires, pain, pleasure, love, etc.... that's not my goal. I don't see that in nature. I don't see why I would want to do something against nature. That's just not my thing.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

The core of our purpose is awareness not self-awareness.

Sorry. That's a deal-breaker.

 

[BSM1]

You seem to think that if one has a purpose, one must either fulfil that purpose (and then what?) or fail. But can one not partially fulfil one's purpose (or partially fail to fulfil it)?

Something - a chair, say - can be created for a particular purpose (perhaps for a defined period of time) and can fulfil that purpose (for a period of time), or only partially fulfil that purpose, or fail to fulfil that purpose. And by the same token, one can know, or be told, what one's purpose is and then in principle go on to fulfil it, only partially fulfil it or fail to fulfil it (depending on what the purpose is, and various other factors).

Not what I am saying at all. All purposes assigned in this life are by their very nature self-imposed. Thus, when you say my purpose is this or that you are compelled to fulfill that purpose; you are predisposed to fail, or constantly redefine your purpose. But if you are simply living in the now you will accomplish more then if you have to go tilting at windmills just to validate your existence. The chair is a perfect example. The chair exists to perform a certain act. The chair doesn't have to think about or even define it's existence, it just has to serve. If the chair happens to become self-aware it may develop false ideas as to what it's suppose to be doing. The chair may decide that it must have a purpose, and surely that purpose is greater than just sitting by the fireplace waiting for a butt. The chair then may decide to leave it's cozy corner because it has decided that it must be something more useful and purposeful like, say, the fire. Well you can see where this is leading.

 

[Brian Schuh]

I recall a story about a person who was born to do one good deed, and he didn't know it. He lived a long time, performed the good deed and then died.

King Cyrus didn't know why he became king of the known world, until a Jew showed him a passage from the Prophet Isaiah that called him by name saying he was to rebuild Jerusalem. But when he saw his purpose, he decided to give all peoples subjugated under King Nebuchadnezzar their cultural identity back which had been robbed from them. He helped all the peoples rebuild their temples, not just the Jews, across the board, being a most ancient example of proactive religious tolerance. And he returned to the peoples all the priceless things King Nebuchadnezzar stole from their temples.

No matter if you are born for one good deed, or for something very grand like King Cyrus, what makes you think you can avoid your purpose whether you know what it is or not?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

The author debunks everything that people believe is the purpose and meaning of life. Meaningless, meaningless, everything is meaningless. He even ends the book saying that.

Read a little closer.

Don't for get "vexation of the spirit," which is probably where searching for the meaning of life stems from.

 

[Brian Schuh]

Don't for get "vexation of the spirit," which is probably where searching for the meaning of life stems from.

The author is identified as a son of David. Tradition has it that the author is Solomon. Literary analysis of the Hebrew shows a later date of composition than Solomon. He was reputed as the wisest man to ever live. He said much wisdom causes much vexation of spirit, but that wisdom is still better. The meaning of life is in this book and it is so simple, it is easy to miss. It is as simple as to eat, drink be happy, love your wife, enjoy your work, keep your clothes clean, sunshine is always good, respect the house of your God and remember the day of your death. How can one remember something that hasn't happened yet? And even more I don't recall right now. The meaning of life is simple. Just enjoy your life and all the good things like sunshine. But remember God when you are young, and accept your lot and portion in this life you are given in this world full of vexation.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Not what I am saying at all. All purposes assigned in this life are by their very nature self-imposed. Thus, when you say my purpose is this or that you are compelled to fulfill that purpose; you are predisposed to fail, or constantly redefine your purpose. But if you are simply living in the now you will accomplish more then if you have to go tilting at windmills just to validate your existence. The chair is a perfect example. The chair exists to perform a certain act. The chair doesn't have to think about or even define it's existence, it just has to serve. If the chair happens to become self-aware it may develop false ideas as to what it's suppose to be doing. The chair may decide that it must have a purpose, and surely that purpose is greater than just sitting by the fireplace waiting for a butt. The chair then may decide to leave it's cozy corner because it has decided that it must be something more useful and purposeful like, say, the fire. Well you can see where this is leading.

Okay. I don't agree that all purposes assigned in this life are by their very nature self-imposed. I believe God created us for a purpose, if you will that God has imposed our purpose on us (whether we remember or not). In the same way that the chair exists to perform a certain act, so do I. God tells me what my purpose is, and I just have to obey, to serve.

Furthermore, why, when I say my purpose is this or that, am I compelled to fulfil that purpose, and predisposed to fail or to constantly redefine that purpose? Is it not possible that I might, in principle, succeed in fulfilling my purpose? I believe that I/we will never complete the task of liberating all the spirits trapped in the energetic-material world - that I/we will never in that sense completely fulfil our purpose - because Satan continues to trap more spirits in the energetic-material world, and that this process of liberation of spirits followed by entrapment of spirits continues for eternity, not because my purpose is self-imposed, that I am compelled to fulfil that purpose and predisposed to fail or to constantly redefine my purpose.

 

[BSM1]

Okay. I don't agree that all purposes assigned in this life are by their very nature self-imposed. I believe God created us for a purpose, if you will that God has imposed our purpose on us (whether we remember or not). In the same way that the chair exists to perform a certain act, so do I. God tells me what my purpose is, and I just have to obey, to serve.

Furthermore, why, when I say my purpose is this or that, am I compelled to fulfil that purpose, and predisposed to fail or to constantly redefine that purpose? Is it not possible that I might, in principle, succeed in fulfilling my purpose? I believe that I/we will never complete the task of liberating all the spirits trapped in the energetic-material world - that I/we will never in that sense completely fulfil our purpose - because Satan continues to trap more spirits in the energetic-material world, and that this process of liberation of spirits followed by entrapment of spirits continues for eternity, not because my purpose is self-imposed, that I am compelled to fulfil that purpose and predisposed to fail or to constantly redefine my purpose.

I just love it when people say God has a purpose for each of us. I like to watch their heads explode when I ask them what God's purpose is for them. Also, in reading your last line I have to ask: why bother?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Also, in reading your last line I have to ask: why bother?

Because we exist to serve God. And in serving God, we find peace.

 

[BSM1]

Because we exist to serve God. And in serving God, we find peace.

But who can say what serving God entails?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

But who can say what serving God entails?

Serving God entails striving to fulfil the purpose for which we were created...

 

[allfoak]

But who can say what serving God entails?

Spoiler: Pick me!