What is the US interest in Ukraine?

[Nimos]

State capitalism is socialism

No, it is not. Not to the extent that you make it sound.

If you watch the video, you can get a full explanation.

Socialism was "invented" as a response to capitalism's shortcomings and promises to fix the issues with feudalism, but capitalism didn't do that, we still have a society of extreme inequality, where capitalists/rich people are the "king" and "church" so to speak. Socialism's aim is at solving that and to secure the most freedom for people, ALL people, not a selective few. A state can be used in certain cases, but that is true even today in capitalism, with police, military, etc. but it doesn't mean that every single company is controlled by the government as you would have it in State capitalism.

 

[Colt]

Liberty of Ukrainian people?

[Runs away fast]

I agree, Putin has long wanted a return to the glory days of the USSR which was all fake and corrupt anyway.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, it is not. Not to the extent that you make it sound.

"State capitalism" has the elements necessary for socialism,
yet it misses fundamental elements of capitalism. In short,
"state capitalism" is oxymoronic.

Socialism was "invented" as a response to capitalism's shortcomings and promises to fix the issues with feudalism, but capitalism didn't do that, we still have a society of extreme inequality, where capitalists/rich people are the "king" and "church" so to speak. Socialism's aim is at solving that and to secure the most freedom for people, ALL people, not a selective few. A state can be used in certain cases, but that is true even today in capitalism, with police, military, etc. but it doesn't mean that every single company is controlled by the government as you would have it in State capitalism.

Socialism's goals are at odds with what is required to enforce it.
This explains why it always results in both oppression & economic
lethargy (eg, mass starvation, poverty). And it still exhibits the
extreme wealth disparity, just fewer people become elite. Most
wallow in deprivation.
It's a case of the cure (socialism or communism) being worse than
the disease (capitalism).

 

[lukethethird]

Only in the popular press and in grandstanding speeches.

The real reason is liberty of Europe, or at least the avoidance of a general war in Europe. Such a war would be immeasurably costly to the US, regardless of whether it participated itself in the war or not. The economic damage and the damage to global US interests would be catastrophic. If Putin takes Ukraine he can take other countries: the Baltic states, Moldova, Poland even,...... We know his goal is to rebuild the empire of the USSR as far as he can, seeing himself as a new Peter the Great. He won't stop. He needs to be stopped.

How do you know that Putin's goal is to rebuild the empire of the USSR? Who said Putin wants to take all of Ukraine?

 

[Colt]

How do you know that Putin's goal is to rebuild the empire of the USSR? Who said Putin wants to take all of Ukraine?

Russian politician says it's time to "admit" real reason for Ukraine war


Russian State Duma member Andrey Gurulyov called on the Kremlin to "admit" the real reason for the Ukraine invasion during a recent appearance on Russian state TV..................................



.................He continued to assert that "there is no Ukraine" and that the country is actually a territory of Russia. He described retaking control of Ukraine as "the most important thing to accomplish today."

 

[Nimos]

Socialism's goals are at odds with what is required to enforce it.
This explains why it always results in both oppression & economic
lethargy (eg, mass starvation, poverty). And it still exhibits the
extreme wealth disparity, just fewer people become elite. Most
wallow in deprivation.
It's a case of the cure (socialism or communism) being worse than
the disease (capitalism).

It may or might not, it depends on how it is done.

As it is now, you sell yourself to a company and that company is run by a board or some people that "know" best and whatever decision they make will affect you as an employer without you having any say in it. And let's be honest often these decisions are not in the best interest of the employees but in many cases, the investors or those in charge, hench the huge salary difference between people.

Whereas in socialism everyone would have a say in what should be going on in a more democratic way. That is obviously extremely simply explained. So the company would be a collective enterprise where everyone would have a say and be personally invested in the company, rather than just having to accept whatever the leaders/investors think is best often at the expense of the employees.

 

[Revoltingest]

It may or might not, it depends on how it is done.

If something is hoped to do well, but is
never done well, this bodes poorly for
its potential to ever do well.

As it is now, you sell yourself to a company and that company is run by a board or some people that "know" best and whatever decision they make will affect you as an employer without you having any say in it.

I've never sold myself.
But I've provided services for compensation,
until I decided to peddle them elsewhere.
That is my say...at least until I formed my own
business. That's the beauty of capitalism.

And let's be honest often these decisions are not in the best interest of the employees but in many cases, the investors or those in charge, hench the huge salary difference between people.

Again, I must point out that criticizing capitalism because
problems arise in it is hollow because it ignores the fact
that problems arise in every economic & political system.
The real issue is which one offers the best outcomes.
"And let's be honest"...socialists never deal with that reality.
They propose their unrealized dream to replace that which
works in the real world.

Whereas in socialism everyone would have a say in what should be going on in a more democratic way. That is obviously extremely simply explained. So the company would be a collective enterprise where everyone would have a say and be personally invested in the company, rather than just having to accept whatever the leaders/investors think is best often at the expense of the employees.

Saying "socilism would" to claim that it would be something
other than what's actually occurred under it is a fantasy.

 

[Father Heathen]

Russian politician says it's time to "admit" real reason for Ukraine war


Russian State Duma member Andrey Gurulyov called on the Kremlin to "admit" the real reason for the Ukraine invasion during a recent appearance on Russian state TV..................................



.................He continued to assert that "there is no Ukraine" and that the country is actually a territory of Russia. He described retaking control of Ukraine as "the most important thing to accomplish today."

Which means a victory for Russia will result in a cultural genocide.

 

[exchemist]

How do you know that Putin's goal is to rebuild the empire of the USSR? Who said Putin wants to take all of Ukraine?

His first act when the invasion started was to try to take the capital, in a lightning strike with special forces. So he clearly intended to decapitate the government and take control of the country.

He has given a number of speeches in the last couple of years in which he claims Ukraine does not exist as a country and is really just a province of Russia.

Here's an article in which he compares himself to Peter the Great: Putin compares himself to Peter the Great in quest to take back Russian lands

And another one showing his plans for Moldova and Georgia: Moldova, then Georgia, now Ukraine: How Russia built ‘bridgeheads into post-Soviet space’

If you were in the Baltic States, you would be seriously worried that he might have you in his sights as well.

 

[lukethethird]

Russian politician says it's time to "admit" real reason for Ukraine war


Russian State Duma member Andrey Gurulyov called on the Kremlin to "admit" the real reason for the Ukraine invasion during a recent appearance on Russian state TV..................................



.................He continued to assert that "there is no Ukraine" and that the country is actually a territory of Russia. He described retaking control of Ukraine as "the most important thing to accomplish today."

So what? He has no say in the matter, he is free to mouth off all he wants.

 

[Nakosis]

Liberty of Ukrainian people?

[Runs away fast]

I suspect limiting the expansion of Russian influence.

 

[Nimos]

I've never sold myself.
But I've provided services for compensation,
until I decided to peddle them elsewhere.
That is my say...at least until I formed my own
business. That's the beauty of capitalism.

Whether you see it like that or not, that is basically what people do, even in socialism people would sell their labour. In capitalism, if there is a high supply of workers you can be pretty sure that the condition by which you can sell yourself is weakened, which is partly why there are labour unions etc. Which again could be argued is a socialist concept, rather than just letting the "free market/capitalists" decide.

Starting your own company would still be possible, obviously, work slightly differently, but possible.

Again, I must point out that criticizing capitalism because
problems arise in it is hollow because it ignores the fact
that problems arise in every economic & political system.
The real issue is which one offers the best outcomes.
"And let's be honest"...socialists never deal with that reality.
They propose their unrealized dream to replace that which
works in the real world.

I don't think socialism is the "final solution" I think what is much more important is what the aim of the system is. If freedom and equality for all people are important, then clearly capitalism has failed.

Federal Reserve data indicates that as of Q4 2021, the top 1% of households in the United States held 32.3% of the country's wealth, while the bottom 50% held 2.6%.

This to me at least is absurd and it or something similar probably holds true in many countries. I don't think socialism can or even should make everyone completely equal, but simply reduce the gap and focus on solidarity rather than egoism.

"And let's be honest"...socialists never deal with that reality.
They propose their unrealized dream to replace that which
works in the real world.

What do you mean by "never deal with reality"? again socialism was "invented" as a response to the failure of capitalism in an attempt to create more equal societies. It would be like saying that capitalism never dealt with reality when it sought to replace/fix feudalism. For some reason, people have been convinced that capitalism is the end of the line and no other system can improve on it, I find that odd.

But having such a little % of people owning so much wealth should be a clear indication that something is clearly not working in a world where people are starving and living in poverty.

Saying "socilism would" to claim that it would be something
other than what's actually occurred under it is a fantasy.

Because it wasn't socialism. At the end of the video, he gives an example of Chili and how it went with them when they went down that path, it was greatly improving the lives of the Chilean people until the US decided to interfere and the democratically elected president had to commit suicide. Was it perfect? probably not, but at least it was better for a lot of people in Chile. But it is from 18.20 in the video that you can hear about that.

 

[Jimmy]

Only in the popular press and in grandstanding speeches.

The real reason is liberty of Europe, or at least the avoidance of a general war in Europe. Such a war would be immeasurably costly to the US, regardless of whether it participated itself in the war or not. The economic damage and the damage to global US interests would be catastrophic. If Putin takes Ukraine he can take other countries: the Baltic states, Moldova, Poland even,...... We know his goal is to rebuild the empire of the USSR as far as he can, seeing himself as a new Peter the Great. He won't stop. He needs to be stopped.

I don’t think so

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

We "know" this, how?

Well, we don't know anything so it is utterly meaningless.
I won't play that game with you, so in practice we believe differently.

 

[Jimmy]

This Ukraine war has been a huge success for the warmongers and the war profiteers that received government contracts worth billions of dollars to build arms. For the survivors in Ukraine it will only get worse and then they will be forgotten once the US and its Nato lackies find another war. The US has ships on the other side of the planet surrounding China right now, they're next and then we will all be done.

I don’t think so

 

[Twilight Hue]

Liberty of Ukrainian people?

[Runs away fast]

Yea. That was the intention of the US to promote a free democratic world, hence the world's policeman.

 

[Twilight Hue]

This Ukraine war has been a huge success for the warmongers and the war profiteers that received government contracts worth billions of dollars to build arms. For the survivors in Ukraine it will only get worse and then they will be forgotten once the US and its Nato lackies find another war. The US has ships on the other side of the planet surrounding China right now, they're next and then we will all be done.

I'd rather not see despots and totalitarian regimes aquire the upper hand by good people doing absolutely nothing.

You want to see Russia or China as the new dominant world's policeman?

 

[Stevicus]

Well, we don't know anything so it is utterly meaningless.
I won't play that game with you, so in practice we believe differently.

I'm not sure what game you're talking about. The post you're quoting was a response to another poster. What is your role in that exchange?

 

[Father Heathen]

@atanu ,why did you sidestep my post?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I'm not sure what game you're talking about. The post you're quoting was a response to another poster. What is your role in that exchange?

Well, we include me and knowledge is also I am subject to.

So yes, we know that Putin want to make Russia an empire again, he has written himself that he want that to happen.