What is the Word (John1:1)?

[SA Huguenot]

Bogus! And I'm not going to waste my time with you.

What?
Do you want to tell me that Jesus never told the apostles that He and the father are ONE.
He and the Father shared the Glory from before everything was?
No one knows the Father but Jesus?

You say Bogus!
You dont want to waste time, but you make claims that is very superficial, and when I show you what the Bible say,
You say BOGUS!
BOGUS, when you dont like to hear what is actually written in the Bible!
Bogus when you dont even know what PHILO wrote about the Logos, and Sophia?

Realy?
If I were to treat you like you do to Christians, you would obviously be upset too.
Then Bogus might be a sign you should carry on your t shirt.
No, dont act like this.
Rather show me where you thinjk I am wrong, and teach me.
Dont make statements without support, superficial claims that the Apostles did not understand the concept of the Trinity and so on.
Show me where I am wrong!
But to Bogus, I will not waste my time....
No man.
Do you know how sad I am now?
To think I wont hear from you again because I wasted your time.
I will not sleep tonight.
Bogus!

 

[LightofTruth]

What?
Do you want to tell me that Jesus never told the apostles that He and the father are ONE.
He and the Father shared the Glory from before everything was?
No one knows the Father but Jesus?

You say Bogus!
You dont want to waste time, but you make claims that is very superficial, and when I show you what the Bible say,
You say BOGUS!
BOGUS, when you dont like to hear what is actually written in the Bible!
Bogus when you dont even know what PHILO wrote about the Logos, and Sophia?

Realy?
If I were to treat you like you do to Christians, you would obviously be upset too.
Then Bogus might be a sign you should carry on your t shirt.
No, dont act like this.
Rather show me where you thinjk I am wrong, and teach me.
Dont make statements without support, superficial claims that the Apostles did not understand the concept of the Trinity and so on.
Show me where I am wrong!
But to Bogus, I will not waste my time....
No man.
Do you know how sad I am now?
To think I wont hear from you again because I wasted your time.
I will not sleep tonight.
Bogus!

It seems we don't agree on the proper method of interpretation. What you are doing is bringing your preconceived idea of Trinity into the test, whereas I allow the Scripture to interpret itself.

For example, when Jesus says he and his Father are one, you bring your trintiy god into the interpretation. But if we allow the Scripture to interpret the text you'll find that Jesus also prayed to his Father that his disciples would be one as he and his Father are one.

So there is the difference between you and me. You bring your own ideas into the text and I allow the text to interpret themselves.

And until you learn the proper method of interpretation you will continue bringing your own ideas into the text and therefore greatly err.

 

[MJFlores]

Damm but you are in one's face!
It wont help you keep on drumming forth.
We alreeady established that you hate the Trinity, and are totally immune to any debate.
All you are doing is to ensure that you are ignored and you just dont learn that pasting all these videos and stuff of you burning in Hell, dont impress anyone.
It is very irratible, and one can not concentrate on what you wrote.
You are destroying your whole message.

Please understand that I will not be able to read any of your posts if this is how you want it to appear.
Simply said, you are making a ridicule of your own message.
It is sad, but I had to tell you.
Love,
I

If my views are in error then people can see my lies
and it would be easy to point out
However, I am just showing the words written in the Bible
and not from my own opinions.

Jesus Christ was never God because of the following reasons:
1] He is the Son of God - the son of someone who is God
2] He is a Man - and by being a man, he cannot and will not be God

John 1:1 is about the LOGOS not Jesus Christ himself but the PLAN about Jesus Christ

What is the Word (John1:1)?

 

[74x12]

John 1:1 says: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Word was with God and God Himself is the Word? How does that work? Every man also has his own word and he himself is his own word. With your word you can swear, bless, curse and honour God. Your word is powerful, because through your word you can destruct yourself, but you can also save yourself through your word. Your word reflects your personality, your word is you. It is the same with God, just as we humans have a word, so God has his word.
It is also written: In the beginning was the Word, and through the Word everything is created - what does that mean?
God can do with His Word something that our Word cannot do. It can create. The Word is already mentioned in the beginning. For in Genesis 1:3 it says, "And God said, Let there be light. And it became light - "Let there be light" is his word, through his word he created everything. Through his mouth came the Word.
And this word became flesh, God made his own word to flesh. This flesh is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is His Word and God Himself is Jesus Christ.

Just as you speak with your breath. Your breath coming out of your lungs and thanks to vocal cords, tongue and lips it forms words. So to the Breath of God --which is the Spirit of God-- forms the Word of God. This is how the Word is one with God. The Word is the holy Spirit just being sent forth with intention and purpose.

The Light of Genesis 1:3 is the Word of God being manifest in the darkened world. The deep is people, nations and tribes. (Revelation 17:15, Isaiah 17:12) The darkness covers the people because the darkness is representative of the sentence of death which covers all people. (Isaiah 60:1-2, ) This is the "shadow of death" as spoken of in scriptures.

Jesus is the "Word of Life" And the "Light of Life". Jesus brings Life to the world which is under sentence of death through the resurrection from the dead. So, that is why Jesus Himself had to die. because so long as He was alive; the Word of Life remained in silence. It was only through the resurrection from the grave; that the Word of Life could speak.

Because just as His body was broken; so the silence was broken and the Word of Life was sent out. "Let there be Light" and so it was.

 

[SA Huguenot]

If my views are in error then people can see my lies
and it would be easy to point out
However, I am just showing the words written in the Bible
and not from my own opinions.

Jesus Christ was never God because of the following reasons:
1] He is the Son of God - the son of someone who is God
2] He is a Man - and by being a man, he cannot and will not be God

John 1:1 is about the LOGOS not Jesus Christ himself but the PLAN about Jesus Christ

What is the Word (John1:1)?

Wow, do you see the difference in how strong your message is transmitted now!
Now we can debate the point.
Tnx pal.
So, lets start this discussion.
You say Jesus said he was God's son.
Do you interperate it as everyone is God's children, therefore you are also the son of God?
or
Do you interperate it as Jesus is the physical son of God, as I am the son of Thommas, my Father?

 

[SA Huguenot]

Just as you speak with your breath. Your breath coming out of your lungs and thanks to vocal cords, tongue and lips it forms words. So to the Breath of God --which is the Spirit of God-- forms the Word of God. This is how the Word is one with God. The Word is the holy Spirit just being sent forth with intention and purpose.

The Light of Genesis 1:3 is the Word of God being manifest in the darkened world. The deep is people, nations and tribes. (Revelation 17:15, Isaiah 17:12) The darkness covers the people because the darkness is representative of the sentence of death which covers all people. (Isaiah 60:1-2, ) This is the "shadow of death" as spoken of in scriptures.

Jesus is the "Word of Life" And the "Light of Life". Jesus brings Life to the world which is under sentence of death through the resurrection from the dead. So, that is why Jesus Himself had to die. because so long as He was alive; the Word of Life remained in silence. It was only through the resurrection from the grave; that the Word of Life could speak.

Because just as His body was broken; so the silence was broken and the Word of Life was sent out. "Let there be Light" and so it was.

This is the spiritual interpretation, which is valuble, but which I dont always agree.
lets take Genesis 1:3.
here we have the Earth being without form (shapeless), dark deep and filled with water. And we have the Spirit of God hovering above this shapeless wet collection of matter in liquid, gasseous and solid form that will shape into a round sphere on the following day, after God speaks for the first time in Genesis.
Therefore, if the Windy vibrations of God's words are the Spirit of God, this interpretation does not work, for God still did not speak, but here we have something physical hovering above the waters, and we lateron learn that the Holy Spirit is a person that can enter creation, change people, enter prophets so they can give prophecies, and even enter into Samson to be invredibly strong.
Therefore one will have to explain how simple vibrations of wind can get Samson to wage destruction, how mary could get pregnant, and how prophets could do what they did by getting vibrations of wind.
Dont work well if we take all the quotes of the Spirit of God and not just 3 verses.
Now, If we take the literal interpretation of Genesis 1: 1 to 18, we find that after God said, let there be light, there was evening and morning, and the days started to count up to the years we know today. Therefore, this light was the Light of the Sun still shining very dim as science agrees, and thereafter the Earth seperated gas from solids mixed up in water, to create an atmosphere.
it follows up with the waters seperated from the land, creating land and sea.
The Nebular theory which was incidently described by Kant in 1755. Which science today agree that the Nebular theory is the most viable model of the origins of the Earth.

Conclusion.
Everything can be read "Spiritually", but then one must be consistant and explain waht this firmament is "Spiritually", and what the seperation of land and sea is spiritually, and the animals, and the fish, and the first human and the garden, and so on.
Nope, the Spirit that hovered above the waters was not some vibration of air, nor was he Jesus, for Jesus say that he will leave, and the Holy Ghost will come to the believers.
This was with Fire, and great signs.
Also remember that one can blaspheme against the Holy Ghost.
Blasphemy can only be done against God.

 

[Desert Snake]

It seems we don't agree on the proper method of interpretation. What you are doing is bringing your preconceived idea of Trinity into the test, whereas I allow the Scripture to interpret itself.

For example, when Jesus says he and his Father are one, you bring your trintiy god into the interpretation. But if we allow the Scripture to interpret the text you'll find that Jesus also prayed to his Father that his disciples would be one as he and his Father are one.

So there is the difference between you and me. You bring your own ideas into the text and I allow the text to interpret themselves.

And until you learn the proper method of interpretation you will continue bringing your own ideas into the text and therefore greatly err.

Romans 8:2
Matthew 15:9

Jesus is the only Lord, always was. The only way for the laws to be 'fulfilled', is by the sacrifice of Yahweh.

It's as plain as day, Jesus was the Lord before incarnation, the Lord on earth, Matthew 15:9,

The Lord of the Christians, Romans 8:2,

And the Lord in spirit form, as He incarnates via the Spirit of the Lord, ie, Him.

 

[MJFlores]

Wow, do you see the difference in how strong your message is transmitted now!
Now we can debate the point.
Tnx pal.
So, lets start this discussion.
You say Jesus said he was God's son.
Do you interperate it as everyone is God's children, therefore you are also the son of God?
or
Do you interperate it as Jesus is the physical son of God, as I am the son of Thommas, my Father?

What is recorded in the Bible, Bro.SA Huguenot?
Is Jesus Christ, the Son of God OR God the Son?

I say the Bible records Jesus as the Son of God.

Now if we won't use the Bible then people will be formulating their own theories, mistaken assumption about Jesus Christ - it would be a chaotic free for all.

Maybe one guy would be saying Jesus visited the Indians, once upon a time - even if such visit is not recorded in the Bible.

Or visited the other Indians - even if such visit is not recorded in the Bible.

So the world has their stories about Christ, the question is are these tales real?

If the story is not the teachings of God in the Bible then we should reject it because that is what the Bible says:

2 Corinthians 11:4 New International Version (NIV)
For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

And Paul even added that even an angel from above or even they themselves preach a different gospel, the curse of God should befall them.

Galatians 1:5-9 New International Version (NIV)
to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

So what can I accept as Bible Truths about Jesus Christ?

I accept Jesus Christ as the SON OF GOD:

“And when the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, heard his cry and saw how he died, he said, ‘Surely THIS MAN WAS THE SON OF GOD!’” (Mark 15:39, NIV, emphasis mine).

I accept Jesus Christ as our LORD:

“So, all the people of Israel should know this truly: GOD HAS MADE JESUS — THE MAN YOU NAILED TO THE CROSS — BOTH LORD AND CHRIST.” (Acts 2:36, New Century Version, emphasis mine)

I accept Jesus Christ as our SAVIOR:

“The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had murdered by hanging Him on a tree. GOD EXALTED THIS MAN TO HIS RIGHT HAND AS RULER AND SAVIOR, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.” (Acts 5:30-31, Holman Christian Standard Bible, emphasis mine)

I accept Jesus Christ as the MEDIATOR between the one true God and men:

“For there is one God and ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MEN, THE MAN CHRIST JESUS” (I Timothy 2:5, NIV, emphasis mine)

I also believe what the Lord Jesus Christ said about Himself that He is the ONE SENT by the
one true God:

“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” (John 17:3 NKJV)

The Bible also tells that Jesus Christ is the glorified SERVANT of the one true God:

“The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go.” (Acts 3:13 NKJV)

The One true God is indeed different from the Lord Jesus Christ who is His Son, whom He sent, and whom He glorified. The Bible explicitly said that Jesus Christ is the Servant of the one true God. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself attests that He is indeed a man in nature:

“As it is, you are determined to kill me, A MAN WHO HAS TOLD YOU THE TRUTH that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things.” (John 8:40 NIV, emphasis mine).

Thus, although Jesus is Lord, Savior, the Son of God, whom God sent, and the Servant whom God glorified, but Jesus Himself testified that He is Man in nature and He is different from God. He said, “A MAN WHO HAS TOLD YOU THE TRUTH THAT I HEARD FROM GOD.”

 

[SA Huguenot]

What is recorded in the Bible, Bro.SA Huguenot?
Is Jesus Christ, the Son of God OR God the Son?

I say the Bible records Jesus as the Son of God.

Now if we won't use the Bible then people will be formulating their own theories, mistaken assumption about Jesus Christ - it would be a chaotic free for all.

Maybe one guy would be saying Jesus visited the Indians, once upon a time - even if such visit is not recorded in the Bible.

View attachment 31849

Or visited the other Indians - even if such visit is not recorded in the Bible.

View attachment 31851

So the world has their stories about Christ, the question is are these tales real?

View attachment 31852

If the story is not the teachings of God in the Bible then we should reject it because that is what the Bible says:

2 Corinthians 11:4 New International Version (NIV)
For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

View attachment 31854

And Paul even added that even an angel from above or even they themselves preach a different gospel, the curse of God should befall them.

Galatians 1:5-9 New International Version (NIV)
to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

So what can I accept as Bible Truths about Jesus Christ?

I accept Jesus Christ as the SON OF GOD:

“And when the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, heard his cry and saw how he died, he said, ‘Surely THIS MAN WAS THE SON OF GOD!’” (Mark 15:39, NIV, emphasis mine).

I accept Jesus Christ as our LORD:

“So, all the people of Israel should know this truly: GOD HAS MADE JESUS — THE MAN YOU NAILED TO THE CROSS — BOTH LORD AND CHRIST.” (Acts 2:36, New Century Version, emphasis mine)

I accept Jesus Christ as our SAVIOR:

“The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had murdered by hanging Him on a tree. GOD EXALTED THIS MAN TO HIS RIGHT HAND AS RULER AND SAVIOR, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.” (Acts 5:30-31, Holman Christian Standard Bible, emphasis mine)

I accept Jesus Christ as the MEDIATOR between the one true God and men:

“For there is one God and ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MEN, THE MAN CHRIST JESUS” (I Timothy 2:5, NIV, emphasis mine)

I also believe what the Lord Jesus Christ said about Himself that He is the ONE SENT by the
one true God:

“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” (John 17:3 NKJV)

The Bible also tells that Jesus Christ is the glorified SERVANT of the one true God:

“The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go.” (Acts 3:13 NKJV)

The One true God is indeed different from the Lord Jesus Christ who is His Son, whom He sent, and whom He glorified. The Bible explicitly said that Jesus Christ is the Servant of the one true God. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself attests that He is indeed a man in nature:

“As it is, you are determined to kill me, A MAN WHO HAS TOLD YOU THE TRUTH that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things.” (John 8:40 NIV, emphasis mine).

Thus, although Jesus is Lord, Savior, the Son of God, whom God sent, and the Servant whom God glorified, but Jesus Himself testified that He is Man in nature and He is different from God. He said, “A MAN WHO HAS TOLD YOU THE TRUTH THAT I HEARD FROM GOD.”

Mmmm.
lets get back to John 1: 1 to 18.
jesus created everything.
Only God can create.

Wharrabout all 4 Gospels saying.
Jesus was crucified because He proclaimed to be God!

Wat about verses in the OT, such as Isaiah 48: 1 to 18 where YHWH say, YHWH and His Spirit sent him?
This person talking here is the creator!
And the Creator say YHWH and YHWH's Spirit sent him!
I know the Trinity is a huge problem to certain religions because their foundation is built upon denial about the Trinity and the Divinity of Jesus.
One just have to look at the JW's.
If they even as admit that Jesus had a Divine nature, millions of Jehovah witnesses will have to leave that organisation.
Millions of JW's will have to admit they were wrong for the greater part of their lives.

Just think what will happen to Islam, if they admit that Jesus somehow were divine.

On the other hand, think what will happen when Christianity goes and deny the Trinity.
Billions of people will have to change everything they believed in.

Now it is a fact that you will never accept what I will tell you, and vice versa.
Therefore one will have to formulate a methodology on how we will talk to each othr in a debate, so we allow each other to take information one point at a time.
Scrutinize the evidence and agfter a full investigation come to a conclusion.
But, if we venture into such a debate, there will have to be mutual understanding that one will not bullfight his opinion onto the other.

Then there should also be consequences to both parties.
Both will have to agree that all the communications will be published and can be used to show other ill informed persons on what these 2 gents discussed.

I again invite you to a full debate, where only you and I will speak too each other, but all the rest will stay on the side and viev and judge what is said.

 

[74x12]

Therefore, if the Windy vibrations of God's words are the Spirit of God, this interpretation does not work, for God still did not speak, but here we have something physical hovering above the waters, and we lateron learn that the Holy Spirit is a person that can enter creation, change people, enter prophets so they can give prophecies, and even enter into Samson to be invredibly strong.

The holy Spirit is not just a wind like you think of a wind. God is not a gas such as oxygen and nitrogen or anything like that. But Spirit in Hebrew literally does mean wind/breath. But this is God's own breath. The Spirit of God is infinite and all powerful. The Spirit of God is God.

Therefore one will have to explain how simple vibrations of wind can get Samson to wage destruction, how mary could get pregnant, and how prophets could do what they did by getting vibrations of wind.

There is nothing that the Spirit of God cannot do.

Everything can be read "Spiritually", but then one must be consistant and explain waht this firmament is "Spiritually", and what the seperation of land and sea is spiritually, and the animals, and the fish, and the first human and the garden, and so on.
Nope, the Spirit that hovered above the waters was not some vibration of air, nor was he Jesus, for Jesus say that he will leave, and the Holy Ghost will come to the believers.

Genesis is one of the most spiritual books in the Bible. But, that's not to take away from the obvious meaning either. The scriptures are multi-dimensional. You can study them for your whole life and not scratch the surface. So there are layers of truth in them. If we're led by the holy Spirit then we shouldn't be afraid of studying deeper meaning in the scriptures.

Also remember that one can blaspheme against the Holy Ghost.
Blasphemy can only be done against God.

Correct ... God is a Spirit (John 4:24). God is holy. So, the only really holy Spirit is God. How do you differentiate between air that is still and wind? Simple. Wind is air in movement. So when God moves on things such as when He hovered/fluttered over the face of the deep in Genesis 1:2 we call that the holy Spirit of God. This is God moving on something. So in my view it's symbolic that God is constantly moving on the people turning them back to Himself. As God moved on the prophets they spoke. Because no one can speak the Words of God without the breath of God in them to form those words. And God did this to turn people back to Him.

So we have God in stillness and then when God moves on anything this is His holy Spirit --such as on the day of Pentecost when they heard the sound as of a "rushing mighty wind" and the holy Spirit fell on each of them-- and when God speaks this is the same Spirit but in vibration. This is the Word of God and it is how God creates anything. Jesus was the Word of Creation itself being manifest into the world so He could make all things new.

So, in conclusion; I believe that all three are one God. Father, Word and holy Spirit. These are One and the same God. God the Father as in relation to His children and the Word as He speaks and the holy Spirit as He moves.

Of course there is more to God than just that. Again, just as in the Bible you can go on studying for lifetimes. So you can never learn enough about God.

 

[MJFlores]

jesus created everything.
Only God can create.

John 1:1-18 does not mention Jesus created everything and does not mention that he is God.
However God [the Father of Jesus] created everything THROUGH HIM and FOR HIM
John 1:1-18 speaks about the LOGOS - the plan about Jesus Christ

John 1
Moffatt(i) 1 THE Logos existed in the very beginning, the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine. 2 He was with God in the very beginning: 3 through him all existence came into being, no existence came into being apart from him. 4 In him life lay, and this life was the Light for men: 5 amid the darkness the Light shone, but the darkness did not master it.

18 Nobody has ever seen God, but God has been unfolded by the divine One, the only Son, who lies upon the Father's breast.

John 1 THE Logos existed in the very beginning, the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine.
If Jesus Christ himself is the Word as you say
if Jesus Christ was with God - then Jesus Christ isn't the only true God simply because he was with God
This is so simple that if I say "I saw a guy and he was with Mother" would that make the guy a Mother also?

This is just a simple reading comprehension.

Wat about verses in the OT, such as Isaiah 48: 1 to 18 where YHWH say, YHWH and His Spirit sent him?
This person talking here is the creator!
And the Creator say YHWH and YHWH's Spirit sent him!

It would be better to quote word for word Isaiah 48:1-18
and probably highlight your target verse
I simply did not see Jesus Christ mentioned there
but I noticed you mentioned which Jesus Christ mentioned who is greater the sender or the sent:

John 13:16 New International Version (NIV)
Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

So who is greater?
According to Jesus Christ, the sender is greater
Is Jesus Christ sent?
The Bible says he is and you also said he was - "And the Creator say YHWH and YHWH's Spirit sent him"
And if God the Father is greater than Jesus Christ
Word for word - Jesus said the Father is greater than he is

John 14:28 New International Version (NIV)
“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

THEN the co-equality of the Trinity is proven false

You see the truth just emerges naturally
You can unwittingly say it
We can read it from the pages of the Bible

John 17:17 New International Version (NIV)
Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

 

[SA Huguenot]

John 1:1-18 does not mention Jesus created everything and does not mention that he is God.
However God [the Father of Jesus] created everything THROUGH HIM and FOR HIM
John 1:1-18 speaks about the LOGOS - the plan about Jesus Christ

I am sure I did not say in John 1: 1 jesus said he created everything.
If you want the verse:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Joh 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
Joh 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
Joh 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
Joh 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

OK, In the beginning the Word was with God, and was God and made it all, and became flesh, lived amongst His creation, and they did not recognise Him, and they did not know Him.

Mmmm, Jesus was the creator and is God, who was with the Father when He created it all.
Where do you get that Jesus did not create everything?

 

[MJFlores]

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Please elaborate the phrase "the Word was with God"

 

[SA Huguenot]

It would be better to quote word for word Isaiah 48:1-18
and probably highlight your target verse
I simply did not see Jesus Christ mentioned there
but I noticed you mentioned which Jesus Christ mentioned who is greater the sender or the sent:

Well, at last.
Now we can discuss the Trinity point by point.
I accept.
here is the verse I quoted which you said we can work on.

Isa 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
Isa 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
Isa 48:14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The LORD hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans.
Isa 48:15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.
Isa 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Here we have what Zebi Nasi Hirsch Prinz (in German Heinrich Prinz), and later Rev. Christian William Henry Pauli used to convert almost 5000 Jews in Germany in the 1820's
This is also what Philo referred to!
The "I AM" (YHWH) who created everything, and never spoke in secret from before time existed, was sent by YHWH Elohim, and the Spirit of YHWH!

I will wait for your word by word disection on the above to attempt to prove the Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible!

 

[SA Huguenot]

Please elaborate the phrase "the Word was with God"

Sure, The Word of YHWH was with YHWH. Just as the Spirit of YHWH was with YHWH when Jesus was on the Earth and he had to return to YHWH so the SPIRIT of YHWH can come to the Apostles and disciples.
Again, look at Isaiah 48 as I posted, and you will see that the "I AM" is the one that spoke!
before Time even existed the I Am spoke nothing in secret!
Then Elohim YHWH and YHWH's Spirit sent the Word to the Earth to assist Israel against theis ennemies.
Trinity!

 

[LightofTruth]

This is the spiritual interpretation, which is valuble, but which I dont always agree.
lets take Genesis 1:3.
here we have the Earth being without form (shapeless), dark deep and filled with water. And we have the Spirit of God hovering above this shapeless wet collection of matter in liquid, gasseous and solid form that will shape into a round sphere on the following day, after God speaks for the first time in Genesis.
Therefore, if the Windy vibrations of God's words are the Spirit of God, this interpretation does not work, for God still did not speak, but here we have something physical hovering above the waters, and we lateron learn that the Holy Spirit is a person that can enter creation, change people, enter prophets so they can give prophecies, and even enter into Samson to be invredibly strong.
Therefore one will have to explain how simple vibrations of wind can get Samson to wage destruction, how mary could get pregnant, and how prophets could do what they did by getting vibrations of wind.
Dont work well if we take all the quotes of the Spirit of God and not just 3 verses.
Now, If we take the literal interpretation of Genesis 1: 1 to 18, we find that after God said, let there be light, there was evening and morning, and the days started to count up to the years we know today. Therefore, this light was the Light of the Sun still shining very dim as science agrees, and thereafter the Earth seperated gas from solids mixed up in water, to create an atmosphere.
it follows up with the waters seperated from the land, creating land and sea.
The Nebular theory which was incidently described by Kant in 1755. Which science today agree that the Nebular theory is the most viable model of the origins of the Earth.

Conclusion.
Everything can be read "Spiritually", but then one must be consistant and explain waht this firmament is "Spiritually", and what the seperation of land and sea is spiritually, and the animals, and the fish, and the first human and the garden, and so on.
Nope, the Spirit that hovered above the waters was not some vibration of air, nor was he Jesus, for Jesus say that he will leave, and the Holy Ghost will come to the believers.
This was with Fire, and great signs.
Also remember that one can blaspheme against the Holy Ghost.
Blasphemy can only be done against God.

Do you realize that "Ghost" is an improper translation made by Trinitarians?

 

[LightofTruth]

Please elaborate the phrase "the Word was with God"

The Word was with the Trinity? And the Word was Trinity?

The Word was with the Father, and the Word was Father?

The Word was with the Father and the Holy Spirit and the Word was Father and Holy Spirit?

 

[LightofTruth]

Well, at last.
Now we can discuss the Trinity point by point.
I accept.
here is the verse I quoted which you said we can work on.

Isa 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
Isa 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
Isa 48:14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The LORD hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans.
Isa 48:15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.
Isa 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Here we have what Zebi Nasi Hirsch Prinz (in German Heinrich Prinz), and later Rev. Christian William Henry Pauli used to convert almost 5000 Jews in Germany in the 1820's
This is also what Philo referred to!
The "I AM" (YHWH) who created everything, and never spoke in secret from before time existed, was sent by YHWH Elohim, and the Spirit of YHWH!

I will wait for your word by word disection on the above to attempt to prove the Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible!

There is NOTHING about a Trinity god there!

 

[MJFlores]

Well, at last.
Now we can discuss the Trinity point by point.
I accept.
here is the verse I quoted which you said we can work on.

Isa 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
Isa 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
Isa 48:14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The LORD hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans.
Isa 48:15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.
Isa 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Here we have what Zebi Nasi Hirsch Prinz (in German Heinrich Prinz), and later Rev. Christian William Henry Pauli used to convert almost 5000 Jews in Germany in the 1820's
This is also what Philo referred to!
The "I AM" (YHWH) who created everything, and never spoke in secret from before time existed, was sent by YHWH Elohim, and the Spirit of YHWH!

I will wait for your word by word disection on the above to attempt to prove the Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible!

What is the version of the Bible you are using?
I would be showing a more clearer version.

Isaiah 48:12-16 New International Version (NIV)
“Listen to me, Jacob,
Israel, whom I have called:
I am he;
I am the first and I am the last.
My own hand laid the foundations of the earth,
and my right hand spread out the heavens;
when I summon them,
they all stand up together.

“Come together, all of you, and listen:
Which of the idols has foretold these things?
The Lord’s chosen ally
will carry out his purpose against Babylon;
his arm will be against the Babylonians.
I, even I, have spoken;
yes, I have called him.
I will bring him,
and he will succeed in his mission.

“Come near me and listen to this:

“From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret;
at the time it happens, I am there.”

And now the Sovereign Lord has sent me,
endowed with his Spirit.

Now where is Jesus Christ here?

Is this because you made an assumption on the last verse?

And now the Sovereign Lord has sent me,
endowed with his Spirit.


So who is the Sovereign Lord?
If it is God then the one sent isn't God.

 

[MJFlores]

Sure, The Word of YHWH was with YHWH. Just as the Spirit of YHWH was with YHWH when Jesus was on the Earth and he had to return to YHWH so the SPIRIT of YHWH can come to the Apostles and disciples.
Again, look at Isaiah 48 as I posted, and you will see that the "I AM" is the one that spoke!
before Time even existed the I Am spoke nothing in secret!
Then Elohim YHWH and YHWH's Spirit sent the Word to the Earth to assist Israel against theis ennemies.
Trinity!

Where is your bible proof here?

The word was with God
How did that happen?

You will have two Gods
One God is the word
and the other one is God who is not the word

And it will run against the most important thing according to Jesus:

Mark 12:29 New International Version (NIV)
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

which Jesus repeated what is written in
Deuteronomy 6:4

How come you have 2 gods?

Oh by the way where is the HS?