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What is "woke" in 2024

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The origin of this thread is that it's common on RF that when I use the term "woke", posters want me to define what I mean.
OK. I don't generally ask anybody what they mean by woke. If the context reveals that it's a conservative poster, especially American, then I assume what it intends to do is demean empathic people by those working to maintain white, male, Christian privilege in the hope to silence or undermine them until and unless I reason to think otherwise, since that's almost always correct.

As I said, I don't see you that way, so I wonder what why you use that word that way. And if your list was meant to list what YOU feel the people you refer to as woke are like rather than what you think other people might or do mean, then, I'm surprised to read that from you.

Also, I don't know why you thought my reply contained any off-topic content. It was about what woke means to people using the word. Perhaps you thought my rebutting some of that list of qualities of wokeism as you understand it and pointing out that they describe almost nobody advocating for women, people of color, the disabled, LGBTQ+, and any other groups marginalized by the white patriarchy.

Is that what you meant by off-topic, or were you referring to something else?
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
I've been in non-fiction publishing for 20+ years. I can make good estimates of book sales based on the information provided about individual books on Amazon. Given that, I can safely say that these two authors have sold at least hundreds of thousands, and probably a few million books.

I also understand what makes a best seller, especially for new authors. After the initial marketing efforts, a book stays a best seller largely due to word of mouth. One of the books I've mentioned in this thread has about 28,000 reviews with an average of 4.5 stars. That means that most of the people who read this book liked it, or they wouldn't have given it overwhelmingly positive reviews.

At this point, the only idea I'm defending is that a lot of people believe the ideas in the OP.

Yeah, 1, 2, a lot of people. Then what???
Let us say that 2 million people believe in it. So what???
Do they only live their lives for that and vote for that?
Can you not understand that those 2 million only matter if they are organized and actually vote based on being woke. Then you must show that they also have actual political influence.
And you must show that with logic and evidence that it all is so. And not just something you believe.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Why do you never read stuff? From your own source?
The word “woke” first appeared in the lexicon of African American Vernacular English (AAVE) as a straightforward term meaning “awake” or “conscious.” However, as with many words in AAVE, “woke” carried additional connotations beyond its literal meaning. In the early 20th century, “woke” began to be used metaphorically to describe a heightened awareness of social and political issues, particularly those related to race and inequality.
Funny how that was never really a thing until several years ago.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
You don't appear to be all that involved
in the lives & livelihoods of others.
But I am.
Your posts carp endlessly & ignorantly
about the evils capitalism, but have
neither understanding nor alternative.
Sure, because only the capitalists and their apologists can understand how wonderful capitalism really is. That goes without saying ... **rolling eyes**
 

Argentbear

Well-Known Member
I haven't responded much to the DEI items on the list, but I'm going to attach (as I have in previous threads), a DEI document from California's community colleges. Again, this is just one example of how DEI has devolved, many others can be found. In particular, I would direct everyone to read the 2nd paragraph on page 2 of this document. In this case, D E I is not about those lofty goals, it's about - literally - dismantling western education:
total bull on your part
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I haven't responded much to the DEI items on the list, but I'm going to attach (as I have in previous threads), a DEI document from California's community colleges. Again, this is just one example of how DEI has devolved, many others can be found. In particular, I would direct everyone to read the 2nd paragraph on page 2 of this document. In this case, D E I is not about those lofty goals, it's about - literally - dismantling western education:
That's what you get from this? Really?

The traditional educational practices listed below, and juxtaposed with the equity principles and culturally responsive practices provided, include traditional western/Eurocentric ideologies and practices upon which North American educational systems and institutions were built. This DEI framework recognizes and acknowledges the historic omission and hindrance of students of color from education by law throughout U.S. history. Even after many forms of overt racial discrimination were outlawed, the legacy of that history is still present in seemingly race-neutral, “universal” values and practices. This framework acknowledges and challenges the structures, policies, and practices inherent in systems of higher education that maintain inequality and hinder the education and progress of marginalized students. A focus on equity principles and culturally responsive policy and practices directly counters institutionalized racism, inviting CCC educators to actively engage in dismantling that harmful legacy. This framework was created to help you actualize that work.

So you've decided that challenging structures of inequality, countering institutionalized racism, and dismantling a harmful legacy implies "dismantling western education"?
 

Argentbear

Well-Known Member
I've been in non-fiction publishing for 20+ years. I can make good estimates of book sales based on the information provided about individual books on Amazon. Given that, I can safely say that these two authors have sold at least hundreds of thousands, and probably a few million books.

I also understand what makes a best seller, especially for new authors. After the initial marketing efforts, a book stays a best seller largely due to word of mouth. One of the books I've mentioned in this thread has about 28,000 reviews with an average of 4.5 stars. That means that most of the people who read this book liked it, or they wouldn't have given it overwhelmingly positive reviews.

At this point, the only idea I'm defending is that a lot of people believe the ideas in the OP.
a claim you keep making but can't actually back up. Sales of a publication don't indicate a belief in what that publication says. Supermarket tabloids a purchased by millions but that is not evidence that anyone believes what is printed in those tabloids.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
They don't have African Americans across the pond.

African Americans in Europe

"African Americans have an extensive history and continuing presence in Europe. This reflects the artistic, cultural, and intellectual exchanges between the peoples of Europe and the peoples of Africa since antiquity. With the advent of the transatlantic slave trade and founding of the United States, these exchanges with Europe took on a distinct character as African Americans negotiated the racial and imperial complexities of the United States and modern Europe. Over the span of close to two and a half centuries, African Americans engaged Europe culturally, intellectually, and politically in advancing multiple projects for cultural flourishing, political advancement, and establishing new modes of planetary possibility. African Americans saw Europe as both refuge from the vicissitudes of the racialist and racist protocols of the United States and a haven for the exploration of the full depth and possibility of modern humanity. In Europe, African Americans encountered Africans from the continent and from across the African diaspora and forged new cultural, political, and intellectual links that gave rise to new movements and fresh expressions of human possibility and solidarity. African Americans also forged alliances with Europeans in giving rise to a distinctive African American–inflected “Afro-pean” culture. Europe’s response to African American people, culture, and ideas contained a mix of admiration, appreciation, and respect tinged by racial essentialism, racial exoticism, and racial supremacy. African American responses to European people, culture, and ideas ranged from acceptance of dominant European frameworks and categories to position African Americans as human, modern, and civilized to creative creolization of Europe in forging fresh perspectives of African American culture, identity, and history. For African Americans, Europe was not only a geographic place across the Atlantic; it also served as a powerful symbol of a space where the play of ideas and identities offered possibilities not available within the cultural, geopolitical, and intellectual confines of the United States. African Americans used Europe to define and redefine themselves as well as to fashion new dreams and myths of being and belonging in the world. In other words, the Old World of Europe served as a new world of possibility for African Americans who sought to navigate its refined cultures and stately traditions in forging new paths for African American art, culture, and expression. The history and continuing presence of African Americans in Europe represents a significant element in the ongoing exchanges between the diverse peoples and cultures of Africa and Europe for millennia..."

 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Yeah you're right. They don't exist over there at all.

There are not many people of African descent in Europe for that matter. I think it's 2 percent and about 50 percent of those people live in France.

African Americans in Europe

"African Americans have an extensive history and continuing presence in Europe. This reflects the artistic, cultural, and intellectual exchanges between the peoples of Europe and the peoples of Africa since antiquity. With the advent of the transatlantic slave trade and founding of the United States, these exchanges with Europe took on a distinct character as African Americans negotiated the racial and imperial complexities of the United States and modern Europe. Over the span of close to two and a half centuries, African Americans engaged Europe culturally, intellectually, and politically in advancing multiple projects for cultural flourishing, political advancement, and establishing new modes of planetary possibility. African Americans saw Europe as both refuge from the vicissitudes of the racialist and racist protocols of the United States and a haven for the exploration of the full depth and possibility of modern humanity. In Europe, African Americans encountered Africans from the continent and from across the African diaspora and forged new cultural, political, and intellectual links that gave rise to new movements and fresh expressions of human possibility and solidarity. African Americans also forged alliances with Europeans in giving rise to a distinctive African American–inflected “Afro-pean” culture. Europe’s response to African American people, culture, and ideas contained a mix of admiration, appreciation, and respect tinged by racial essentialism, racial exoticism, and racial supremacy. African American responses to European people, culture, and ideas ranged from acceptance of dominant European frameworks and categories to position African Americans as human, modern, and civilized to creative creolization of Europe in forging fresh perspectives of African American culture, identity, and history. For African Americans, Europe was not only a geographic place across the Atlantic; it also served as a powerful symbol of a space where the play of ideas and identities offered possibilities not available within the cultural, geopolitical, and intellectual confines of the United States. African Americans used Europe to define and redefine themselves as well as to fashion new dreams and myths of being and belonging in the world. In other words, the Old World of Europe served as a new world of possibility for African Americans who sought to navigate its refined cultures and stately traditions in forging new paths for African American art, culture, and expression. The history and continuing presence of African Americans in Europe represents a significant element in the ongoing exchanges between the diverse peoples and cultures of Africa and Europe for millennia..."

They're not African Americans. Their European, English, German, Italian, French, etc. and so on.
Woke is specifically tied to Americans of African descent.
 
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