What is "woke" in 2024

[Twilight Hue]

They're not African Americans. Their European, English, German, Italian, French, etc. and so on.
Woke is specifically tied to Americans of African descent.

With the original meaning being "aware and conscious".

 

[We Never Know]

They're not African Americans. Their European, English, German, Italian, French, etc. and so on.
Woke is specifically tied to Americans of African descent.

I guess you didn't read it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

With the original meaning being "aware and conscious".

Which you denied.

I guess you didn't read it.

Doesn't matter. Black people from Europe are not African Americans. Ergo Idris Alba and Sade aren't African-American, they're African-European/British. The initial point was in regards to a post claiming an African American term was a thing "across the pond" before it was recently a thing here.

 

[We Never Know]

Which you denied.

Doesn't matter. Black people from Europe are not African Americans. Ergo Idris Alba and Sade aren't African-American, they're African-European/British. The initial point was in regards to a post claiming an African American term was a thing "across the pond" before it was recently a thing here.

Read it and educate yourself. They left/fled the US for Europe.

 

[icehorse]

OK. I don't generally ask anybody what they mean by woke. If the context reveals that it's a conservative poster, especially American, then I assume what it intends to do is demean empathic people by those working to maintain white, male, Christian privilege in the hope to silence or undermine them until and unless I reason to think otherwise, since that's almost always correct.

As I said, I don't see you that way, so I wonder what why you use that word that way. And if your list was meant to list what YOU feel the people you refer to as woke are like rather than what you think other people might or do mean, then, I'm surprised to read that from you.

I'd say it's true that the far right use the term "woke" to describe the far left. But it's not only the far right that uses that term. Many centrists (such as myself), are concerned about the far left, and so it's common for us centrists to use the term as well. (And I'm not saying the far left is as bad as the far right.)

What I think I'm seeing on RF is a lot of left leaning folks who haven't paid much attention to the behaviors of the far/radical left. For those people ideas like diversity and equity and inclusion sound just fine. And they mostly used to be. But for example, I think we have to be aware that EQUALITY is very different from EQUITY, and the far left has pulled the old switch-a-roo and swapped equity in, instead of equality.

Another example, I'm of course very supportive of what I might call "classical diversity". People of different ethnicities and sexes and cultures and ideas can and should be able to live well together and learn from each other. Hooray. But these days the far/radical left frequently allows for no differences of opinion on key topics. So in many cases diversity of thought is forbidden.

For example our culture now includes the terms "mis-gendering" and "dead naming". These terms are used by the far left to try to squash any argument or disagreement. The hash tag #nodebate has become common.

Does this make any sense?

Also, I don't know why you thought my reply contained any off-topic content. It was about what woke means to people using the word. Perhaps you thought my rebutting some of that list of qualities of wokeism as you understand it and pointing out that they describe almost nobody advocating for women, people of color, the disabled, LGBTQ+, and any other groups marginalized by the white patriarchy.

Is that what you meant by off-topic, or were you referring to something else?

In this thread, I'm trying to avoid debating on any individual points from the OP. Each of those points are well worth their own discussions. Here I'm just trying to define "woke".

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Keep in mind the world doesn't revolve around them either.

But that was not the claim. The claim was when did the meaning of the word come around.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The real conclusion we can draw from this thread:

"Woke" is a nebulous term, originally coined to indicate awareness of racial and social injustice, that has since been co-opted by right-wingers and similarly dishonest/uninformed individuals as a slur intended to associate a series of completely imagined social positions and broadly ascribe them to individuals without any discernment or explanation or elaboration, because doing so is easier than engaging with actual arguments.

/Thread

 

[Argentbear]

With the original meaning being "aware and conscious".

to racial prejudice and discrimination.

 

[Argentbear]

I'd say it's true that the far right use the term "woke" to describe the far left. But it's not only the far right that uses that term. Many centrists (such as myself), are concerned about the far left, and so it's common for us centrists to use the term as well. (And I'm not saying the far left is as bad as the far right.)

What I think I'm seeing on RF is a lot of left leaning folks who haven't paid much attention to the behaviors of the far/radical left. For those people ideas like diversity and equity and inclusion sound just fine. And they mostly used to be. But for example, I think we have to be aware that EQUALITY is very different from EQUITY, and the far left has pulled the old switch-a-roo and swapped equity in, instead of equality.

Another example, I'm of course very supportive of what I might call "classical diversity". People of different ethnicities and sexes and cultures and ideas can and should be able to live well together and learn from each other. Hooray. But these days the far/radical left frequently allows for no differences of opinion on key topics. So in many cases diversity of thought is forbidden.

Prejudice, discrimination and attacks on minorities is not disagreement. I'm reminded of an old political cartoon where a group of people labeled the "moral majority" are busy using axes and guns to kill people labeled gay and one pauses, axe held high and says: "Please understand this has nothing to do with hate, we just disagree with you"

Disagreement is not forbidden and neither is outright hate. What you want is a freedom from the consequences of prejudice, discrimination and attacks on minorities

In this thread, I'm trying to avoid debating on any individual points from the OP. Each of those points are well worth their own discussions. Here I'm just trying to define "woke".

No, you are pushing an agenda of what YOU want woke to mean. If you were trying to figure out just what woke means you would have listed to the left leaning posters here who rejected your list and discussed how each point didn't reflect actual beliefs. Instead you spent the thread making unsupported claims about how "millions" of people beleive every point on your list.

 

[Twilight Hue]

to racial prejudice and discrimination.

Actually it's extreme activism and is more than that.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What I think I'm seeing on RF is a lot of left leaning folks who haven't paid much attention to the behaviors of the far/radical left. For those people ideas like diversity and equity and inclusion sound just fine. And they mostly used to be. But for example, I think we have to be aware that EQUALITY is very different from EQUITY, and the far left has pulled the old switch-a-roo and swapped equity in, instead of equality.

What problem could you possibly have with equity?

Another example, I'm of course very supportive of what I might call "classical diversity". People of different ethnicities and sexes and cultures and ideas can and should be able to live well together and learn from each other. Hooray. But these days the far/radical left frequently allows for no differences of opinion on key topics. So in many cases diversity of thought is forbidden.

... yet here you are, often expressing differences of opinion on those key topics.

You're still free to say what you want..All that's changed is that if you say jerkish things, you'll get called out for it.

What you're actually calling for is a silencing of debate, but for your opponents.

For example our culture now includes the terms "mis-gendering" and "dead naming". These terms are used by the far left to try to squash any argument or disagreement. The hash tag #nodebate has become common.

Again, it sounds like the thing that's really bothering you is other people's freedom of speech.

 

[Stevicus]

What I think I'm seeing on RF is a lot of left leaning folks who haven't paid much attention to the behaviors of the far/radical left. For those people ideas like diversity and equity and inclusion sound just fine. And they mostly used to be. But for example, I think we have to be aware that EQUALITY is very different from EQUITY, and the far left has pulled the old switch-a-roo and swapped equity in, instead of equality.

I've seen this illustration as the difference between equality and equity.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

For example our culture now includes the terms "mis-gendering" and "dead naming". These terms are used by the far left to try to squash any argument or disagreement. The hash tag #nodebate has become common.

I just don't see why you care about any of that, because I don't. I'd just give them what they want, because why not? Why wouldn't I?

I say would because my life doesn't intersect with this issue or with affected people. I wish it did. I have gay male and gay female acquaintances, but none that are transgendered to my knowledge.

In this thread, I'm trying to avoid debating on any individual points from the OP. Each of those points are well worth their own discussions. Here I'm just trying to define "woke".

You ask what woke is, suggest a list of characteristics, and then say discussing them is off topic. What did you want others to discuss with you?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

In this thread, I'm trying to avoid debating on any individual points from the OP. Each of those points are well worth their own discussions. Here I'm just trying to define "woke".

All right, then here's a definition:

"Woke" describes someone who is aware of systemic injustice and inequality, including the sorts of injustices that @icehorse doesn't mind so much.

 

[Argentbear]

Actually it's extreme activism and is more than that.

and someone who is woke would recognize your clams for the prejudice behind it.

 

[icehorse]

What problem could you possibly have with equity?

Give us a couple of examples of public policy solutions that attempt to achieve equity.

I support equal opportunity, I'm leery of pursuing equality of outcomes.

... yet here you are, often expressing differences of opinion on those key topics.

Yes, and I receive endless slurs for my troubles, but no actual debate.

What you're actually calling for is a silencing of debate, but for your opponents.

How so?

Again, it sounds like the thing that's really bothering you is other people's freedom of speech.

How on earth did you arrive at that?

 

[icehorse]

I've seen this illustration as the difference between equality and equity.

Yes, we've probably all seen that picture, and it sounds lovely on the surface. But what are some public policies you think do a good job of providing equity?

I fully support policies that promote equal opportunities, but I'm suspicious of those that pursue equal outcomes.

 

[icehorse]

I just don't see why you care about any of that, because I don't. I'd just give them what they want, because why not? Why wouldn't I?

I say would because my life doesn't intersect with this issue or with affected people. I wish it did. I have gay male and gay female acquaintances, but none that are transgendered to my knowledge.

Those were just examples of the far/radical left attempting to censor disagreements.

You ask what woke is, suggest a list of characteristics, and then say discussing them is off topic. What did you want others to discuss with you?

There are a collection of ideas (as enumerated in the OP), that the far/radical left tend to hold in common. And again, this is true to varying degrees, and certainly a person could be left leaning and still hold a few of these ideas.

Actually, I don't care what term we use. "Woke" is used a lot as an easy way to encapsulate those ideas, but I'm open to other terms... perhaps radical left or far left?

But as we see in this thread, mostly RFers are busy denying that these beliefs are widely held. So in this thread the idea is to establish that these ideas are widely held, that seems like the first step.

So as I've said, I'm happy to debate these ideas in other threads. If you want to debate equity vs. equality, start a thread and I respond

 

[icehorse]

All right, then here's a definition:

"Woke" describes someone who is aware of systemic injustice and inequality, including the sorts of injustices that @icehorse doesn't mind so much.

I see this dishonest slur and strawman is quite popular. I think the poster and his supporters are all helping me make my point, sigh.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Those were just examples of the far/radical left attempting to censor disagreements.




There are a collection of ideas (as enumerated in the OP), that the far/radical left tend to hold in common. And again, this is true to varying degrees, and certainly a person could be left leaning and still hold a few of these ideas.

Actually, I don't care what term we use. "Woke" is used a lot as an easy way to encapsulate those ideas, but I'm open to other terms... perhaps radical left or far left?

But as we see in this thread, mostly RFers are busy denying that these beliefs are widely held. That seems like the first step.

So as I've said, I'm happy to debate these ideas in other threads. If you want to debate equity vs. equality, start a thread and I respond

Well, 2 million out of 260 adult Americans is widely held, is that it???