What is wrong with religion?

[Mujahid Mohammed]

oh and i have a question for the "One-God" worshippers.

If there is God then why does he give us free will and created a hell at the same time and send those who doesnt believe him to hell?

Does this mean he likes to see people go to hell? Obviously he knew that some people would not believe in him if they are given free will

Before that question is answered I think it should be addressed that people are enjoying all the beneifits of this life that He gave you. He gave you life and asked that you believe now you are enjoying the food, the games, the friends you have, the food, the drink, drugs and alcohol women and fancy cars, if that your things. People are enjoying all the benefits of what the Creator created, yet do not want to do what the Benefactor of all they enjoy askes them to do. Even when He sends clear signs.

does he like seeing people go to hell? How can you ask that? Who's fault is it really. Allah has given mankind infinite blessings. He gave you your eyes, lungs, brain etc. He gave you parents that loved you and took care of you when you were young. He gave you fruits and all kinds of different things to drink. He gave you friends and people whom you find love, compassion, and mercy in. He gave you everything and all He asks is that you thank Him for what He gave you and to believe.

What kind of person are you or anyone else who denies this fact. When your mother does something for you how quick are you to thank her and praise her for what she has done for you. what about your best friend when they give you something how fast are you to thank them. Allah the Creator of all gave you those things, your mother, your friends etc. If you can do for them why can't you do for the one who gave you them in the first place.

also if I tell you not to do something because it may harm you and you do it anyways and you end up hurt who is to blame? If your father tells you not to do something and you do it and he punishes you who is at fault. Your father has certain rights. your father does alot for you in terms of your life. your father has provided for you, fed you, protected you, counseled you etc. And you would obey your father for what he has done for you. You would not want to upset him because of all that he has done for you. so why would you or anyone do that to the one who created and gave you the father that loves and honors and protects you.

does your father do more for you then Allah, He gave you your father so in essence to deny the One who gave you the people who take care of you in this life and provides everything you and everyone has is a huge injustice to Allah. for you do not do those things to your parents when they do for you and what they do compared to Allah is nothing. So why praise them and obey them and not the Creator?

 

[Quiddity]

What's wrong with religion?......It's got people in it.

That's also the best part of it. Relationships is what moves the cosmos.

Sad thing is that the bad usually trumps the good when it comes to religion in the eyes of many.

 

[rojse]

Thank you rojse, and if you would, give me a few ideas of what you mean by what questions? I'd be happy to start some threads, however, it would have to be in addition to your idea because I am content with believing in life after death, a higher power, etc. I don't feel the need to try to debate that with somebody 1). because I already know MYSELF that God exists and 2.) I already stated in my last post all that I need to say.
I honestly believe that when we die, we ALL will reach paradise, and we get to see our loved ones and those who are a part of our soul group. I can also validate the fact that my father's spirit is living and I just know this, if you ask me to prove it, I can't...but YOU can KNOW this. And if we are lucky, we get to meet our dearest ones (out of our soul group) in the flesh in this lifetime, the ones that we love so much in spirit that we don't see much in the flesh.:yes: It may sound fictional, but if you search enough, you will understant it's truth....the truth that we are all human beings here with a purpose, and many may not realise that the purpose is to realise your true self, in spirit(and this actually can be achieved within the holy texts according to SOME teachings although I worry about the impact some of the OLD T has on the psyche), and that true self is achieved with a dedication to understanding

You made an assertation about the existence of spirit, for example. You do not have to start a debate, in whether an afterlife exists or not, but perhaps you could post up one or two ideas in a thread to start a discussion about what people think will happen in the afterlife according to their beliefs. It would be interesting to compare different beliefs according to religious groups.

You shouldn't do it because I suggested it, but perhaps you might because you wish to find out other people's opinions.

 

[capslockf9]

Where are the people of no nationality, race, or religion . Look for them. The Great Spirit talks to all of us; but dogmas blind us.
As long as people believe the lies they have created ; seperateness and evil will abound.

 

[gnostic]

He gave you free will to choose either to enter to heaven or hell.

Neither of them are attractive to me. Your God is just as unattractive as Satan. I don't want to choose one tyrant over another.

What if I don't want to choose either? Surely if there is free will then people should be able to choose alternative to either of these horrible two.

I choose neither.

I'm afraid you don't have that choice.

Then there is absolutely no free-will. The free-will is nothing more than farce...or a terrible joke. That's show what a monster your god is. A much bigger monster than Satan. Who else would throw people who don't believe into hell. The whole things about loving, just and compassionate god is nothing more than a farce. So much for mercy.

 

[vandervalley]

Before that question is answered I think it should be addressed that people are enjoying all the beneifits of this life that He gave you. He gave you life and asked that you believe now you are enjoying the food, the games, the friends you have, the food, the drink, drugs and alcohol women and fancy cars, if that your things. People are enjoying all the benefits of what the Creator created, yet do not want to do what the Benefactor of all they enjoy askes them to do. Even when He sends clear signs.

well if ur God did create everything then he also created cancer, viruses and death. Why even create theses misfortunes? unless he likes to see people suffer. He might as well just take away the free will and so no one will suffer the misfortunes.

What about babies born of HIV? did ur God also created the HIV babies?

another thing is that a divine being should not have the slightest desire to kill any living being either by fire or flood or any other means.

 

[wednesday]

well if ur God did create everything then he also created cancer, viruses and death. Why even create theses misfortunes? unless he likes to see people suffer. He might as well just take away the free will and so no one will suffer the misfortunes.

What about babies born of HIV? did ur God also created the HIV babies?

another thing is that a divine being should not have the slightest desire to kill any living being either by fire or flood or any other means.

Interesting point. I compare that to the statement i hear all the time that is "god's will." How can someone say god loves us when he takes our loved ones away from us causing pain and suffering and as the 'creator' cretaed as states viruses and disease? So much for being a 'loving god'.

 

[logician]

It's much easier to conclude there is no god, that to debate whether there is a supposed god that allows limited free will within the contraints of whatever religion you're talking about.

 

[vandervalley]

Futher to my questions to "one-god" worshipper friends I'd like to point out how this universe works.

If a farmer plants rice seeds in his/her field whould he/she get apples as harvest? The answer is no; the famer will get what he/she planted; regardless whether there is a God or not. This is truly how the Universe works


The same thing applies to what you do with your life. If you do good things such as helping the poor or saving lifes by stopping sucide bombers you will be rewarded either in heaven or in your next lifes; regardless whether you believe in God/Gods or not.

On the other hand; if you kill innocent people or preach teachings that has the potential of killing the innocent people; you will suffer by the deeds you done; let it be in this life or the next or the one after. Again; regardless whether you believe in a God/Gods or not.

This Universe if fair ; you get what you put in; nothing less; nothing more.
Even those who are in heaven is subjected to this rule; if they kill or do harmful things to humans or in fact any other living beings they will get the fruit of what they did.


Now lets go back to the HIV postive babies; if there is a Universal Creator then it must be a cruel Creator for it created a seemingly innocent baby with an ever suffering life. However the Law of Universe tells us that you get what you put in; so we can conclude that the HIV positive babies must had done something terribly wrong in his/her previous lifes and is now suffering the fruitsof those deeds; Regardless whether there is a God or not.

 

[storm2020]

I dont believe in God but I am not against religion as long as it does not interfere with my life. What I don't like about religions is how people of faith use it to better themselves from everyone else.

"we can conclude that the HIV positive babies must had done something terribly wrong in his/her previous lifes"

and to justify persecution.

I also hate hypocritcal religious people who only believe the bits they want such as muslims who commit mass murder "In the name of islam" and christians who preach hate and discrimination. It just gives that rest a bad name.

 

[vandervalley]

I dont believe in God but I am not against religion as long as it does not interfere with my life. What I don't like about religions is how people of faith use it to better themselves from everyone else.

No one is using faith to better themselves here. People are just bringing up personal opinions to futher discussions in religious issues. A democratic society encourages debating using logical thinking without the use of violence and this is one of the place to do it.

we can conclude that the HIV positive babies must had done something terribly wrong in his/her previous lifes"

and to justify persecution.

No one is persecuting anyone. You can take me to court anytime you want if I break the laws

I also hate hypocritcal religious people who only believe the bits they want such as muslims who commit mass murder "In the name of islam" and christians who preach hate and discrimination. It just gives that rest a bad name.

I am sure most of people (me included) believe that majority of Muslims are good people. Maybe u should ask the media to stop negative reports on Muslims instead of hating people on this forum

 

[capslockf9]

At our earlier evolutionary stages we had less capacity to assimulate and dicipher stimuli. So we developed ideas in an attempt to to explain nature. Some concepts of are closer to the target. But most even the most influencial are way of target.
All animals recieve the same stimuli yet all dicipher it to their capacity. Sight, sense of smell, hearing, taste, touch, are sensed differently by all animals.

 

[storm2020]

I am sure most of people (me included) believe that majority of Muslims are good people. Maybe u should ask the media to stop negative reports on Muslims instead of hating people on this forum

Vandervalley! I think you were so quick to respond to my post you forgot to actually read what i had written.

I began with "I am not against religion" I was talking about religion in general not about the people debating. I was saying that i hate when people use it to better themselves which some poeple do. I know a catholic women who is an utter snob and blanks me because i am an atheist.

I also said I hate people such as muslims who commit mass murder "In the name of islam" and that these people give the rest a bad name as some people think this is what islam preaches. Somehow you read it as "I hate all muslims".

Next time you want to quote me take the time to read what i wrote first.

 

[vandervalley]

I began with "I am not against religion" I was talking about religion in general not about the people debating. I was saying that i hate when people use it to better themselves which some poeple do. I know a catholic women who is an utter snob and blanks me because i am an atheist.

I hope you are not thinking a fair and square debating in this forum as "people trying to better themselves using religions".

 

[Smoke]

I also hate hypocritcal religious people who only believe the bits they want such as muslims who commit mass murder "In the name of islam" and christians who preach hate and discrimination. It just gives that rest a bad name.

What do you think is going to happen when you teach people that they, and only they, have the eternal truth; that God is displeased with everybody else in the world but them; that God wants his people to dominate society; and that violence is okay as long as it's in a good cause? Those people aren't hypocrites; they're just taking their religion to its logical conclusion.

 

[vandervalley]

and that violence is okay as long as it's in a good cause? Those people aren't hypocrites; they're just taking their religion to its logical conclusion.

I don't agree with this sentence; violence is never ok; let it be for a religion or any other purposes

 

[Smoke]

I don't agree with this sentence; violence is never ok; let it be for a religion or any other purposes

I agree with you. Neither Muslims nor Jews nor the overwhelming majority of Christians do, though.

 

[love]

Religion=people, different religions=different people.
I have not been to church in twenty years.When I wake in the morning I know God loves me. When I sleep at night I know God loves me. When I help a stranger I know God loves me and is working through me. When a stranger helps me I know God is with us.
I have a personal relationship with God and I know He doesn't mind if one less soul is in attendance. He walks with me everywhere anyway and when I get in range I can feel the spirit of God in others. It may be just in a passing moment but the Spirit draws you together.
God lets me see His life in every direction. From the Sun and Moon and wind and rain and flowers and children and everything.
Because I see this does not blind me to the suffering in the world. Especially today when it can be accessed 24 hours a day. War, disease, hunger have always been with us. People do terrible things to each other.
The Lamb was passed from hand to hand to see who would spill His blood. He heard the crowds call for His death before that of a criminal. He foretold that even Peter The Rock would deny Him three times before the rooster crowed. The lamb was tortured, then killed alone. Flesh and death were conquered in three days. He was not forsaken.
My favorite parts of the Bible are Psalms, Proverbs, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John.
I love the Words of Christ. None can compare. None has walked through this life as He. He controlled the wind and the seas. Not once did He fail to stop the suffering of anyone He met other than Himself. There is authority in every Word He spoke yet He spoke of love and had no blood on His head but His.
The Comforter is His Spirit . Let Him walk with you.

 

[capslockf9]

All religions are egotistical Productions. A nervous activity that participates in survival tactics for the human organism has conjured religion. Fear as tactic of survival has produced many misconceptions. This same fear prevent many humans from living a full and open life. This same fear has created nationalities, race, patriotism, immenent domain, and many other prisons and / or deterents for a real and rewarding life.`

 

[vandervalley]

All religions are egotistical Productions. A nervous activity that participates in survival tactics for the human organism has conjured religion. Fear as tactic of survival has produced many misconceptions. This same fear prevent many humans from living a full and open life. This same fear has created nationalities, race, patriotism, immenent domain, and many other prisons and / or deterents for a real and rewarding life.`

However religions at least try to explain things like the following:

1) Why is it that some die of cancer while others die with a smile on their face.

2) why is it that some survives the war while others die in it?

3) why is it that some are born without a limb while others are born normal.

some of the things just can't be explained satisfactorily by science alone.