What is wrong with sharia law?

[LuisDantas]

That's because I've read more of the writings of progressive Muslims than you have, I've read more liberal Islamic exegesis and I've become more aware of the diversity of understandings and stances among the world's 1.6 billion Muslims. I haven't bought in to the homogenous orthodox narrative of Islam which many Muslims of the modern orthodoxy try to sell.

I am sure that there is a diversity of understandings.

I am far less certain of how prepared to listen to them Muslim societies are.

 

[Kirran]

I am sure that there is a diversity of understandings.

I am far less certain of how prepared to listen to them Muslim societies are.

Which Muslim societies?

It's true there is an extent to which a society listens, but it's also true that individuals within a society come at issues from different places.

 

[LuisDantas]

Which Muslim societies?

Mostly those with a greater degree of insatisfaction or plight.

It's true there is an extent to which a society listens, but it's also true that individuals within a society come at issues from different places.

Are you implying that there are no Muslim societies? I am not sure what you mean to say here.

 

[Kirran]

Mostly those with a greater degree of insatisfaction or plight.

That seems fair. There are plenty who aren't. The largely-Muslim societies of the Balkans, China, some of those in India etc are very different to those predominating in the Arabian Peninsula.

Are you implying that there are no Muslim societies? I am not sure what you mean to say here.

Not at all. But that societies are aggregates, and don't act in and of themselves.

 

[Notanumber]

According to this, the men stole Islam from the women and have been oppressing them ever since.

 

[Kirran]

According to this, the men stole Islam from the women and have been oppressing them ever since.

Patriarchy is a deeply-ingrained system, and manifests itself via religious institutions as well as elsewhere. This is no surprise.

 

[Notanumber]

Patriarchy is a deeply-ingrained system, and manifests itself via religious institutions as well as elsewhere. This is no surprise.

This is another reason why the Quran is in need of a serious update.

Treating women as second-rate citizens is very much old school now.

The Religion of Peace could lead all the other backward institutions out of the mire and become a shining example of liberalism. Then they would no longer need to use threatening behaviour to maintain their numbers.

If any Moderate Muslims are reading this, I suggest that you join this organisation and take back control.

MPV Principles

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Christianity is not a threat to our way of life.

I disagree. In American it's not Islam setting back many progressions in our government, threatening Women's Health, education, religious liberty, LGBT equality, etc.

 

[Kirran]

Treating women as second-rate citizens is very much old school now.

Optimistic. Misogyny is very deep-set in Western societies, and continues to afflict us.

 

[Notanumber]

Optimistic. Misogyny is very deep-set in Western societies, and continues to afflict us.

It is strange that you get an outspoken influential person like Madonna going on about their belief in Donald Trump’s disrespect for women, but could not care less about the way Islam treats its women.

If the Catholic Church did the same, she would be the first to write a song about it.

 

[Kirran]

It is strange that you get an outspoken influential person like Madonna going on about their belief in Donald Trump’s disrespect for women, but could not care less about the way Islam treats its women.

If the Catholic Church did the same, she would be the first to write a song about it.

'The way Islam treats its women.' This implies that Islam treats 'its women' badly. This is a statement based on erroneous assumptions. Highly misogynistic attitudes are prevalent within the vast majority of Muslim societies and in the current Islamic orthodoxies. That is accurate. But to personalise an ideology, and to count all Islam as one monolithic bloc, is inaccurate.

The Catholic Church is an organisation with a defined leadership that sets doctrine, so it is also different. Not that it's anywhere near perfect on respecting women. Or queer people and people of other religions, for that matter.

 

[Notanumber]

'The way Islam treats its women.' This implies that Islam treats 'its women' badly. This is a statement based on erroneous assumptions. Highly misogynistic attitudes are prevalent within the vast majority of Muslim societies and in the current Islamic orthodoxies. That is accurate. But to personalise an ideology, and to count all Islam as one monolithic bloc, is inaccurate.

The Catholic Church is an organisation with a defined leadership that sets doctrine, so it is also different. Not that it's anywhere near perfect on respecting women. Or queer people and people of other religions, for that matter.

Islam is very keen on submission and demands it from their women.

The husband (or his family) pays a “bride price” or "dower" (mahr, which is money or property paid to the bride) which she is entitled to keep. This “mahr” is in exchange for sexual submission (tamkin). Sexual submission is traditionally regarded as unconditional consent for the remainder of the marriage. This sounds like a form of prostitution.

• There is no specific minimum age for marriage, but most agree a woman must have reached puberty. Marriage as young as 12 or 13 is not uncommon in Muslim-majority countries. In Yemen in 2013, there was a highly publicized case of an eight-year-old girl who died of internal injuries suffered on her wedding night. According to Al Jazeera, "Nearly 14 percent of Yemeni girls [are] married before the age of 15 and 52 percent before the age of 18." The case prompted calls for Yemen to pass a law setting a minimum age for marriage, although it has not yet done so.

Muslim Feminists such as Dr. Elham Manea argue that the interpretation of sharia in the area of marriage amounts to discrimination, the type of which is prohibited under Western legal systems.

Male Guardianship

Male Guardianship applies to all women whether married or not according to strict interpretations of sharia. In the event of the deaths of male relatives, it can result in mothers being legally subservient to their sons. Under sharia:

• A woman becomes subservient to her husband and needs his permission to: "leave the house, take up employment, or to engage in fasting or forms of worship other than what is obligatory."
• An unmarried woman is under the guardianship of her nearest male relative.

Human Rights Watch has issued a 50-page report condemning the situation of women in Saudi Arabia alone.

Rights under International Law

International law currently exists in a grey area, as it is unclear to what extent states are bound by international treaties regarding various rights, and which of those rights, if any, international authorities have the power to enforce. The UN Declaration of Human Rights includes equal rights for women and calls have been made for Muslim countries to abide by these statutes.

UN supports equal rights for women and recently adopted a new campaign aimed at ending violence against women. The Muslim Brotherhood issued a statement condemning this UN declaration (for violating sharia principles).



Who Is Affected by Sharia?

Any Muslim woman who undertakes to be married under Islam is bound to a greater or lesser extent by sharia, depending on where they live. Muslim women living in Western countries are bound by the laws of the countries in which they live as well, whereas women living in countries such as Saudi Arabia are bound by sharia alone. In cases where sharia and the law of the land conflict, a woman is bound by sharia.

Women's Rights Under Sharia | Clarion Project

 

[Kirran]

Islam is very keen on submission and demands it from their women.

The husband (or his family) pays a “bride price” or "dower" (mahr, which is money or property paid to the bride) which she is entitled to keep. This “mahr” is in exchange for sexual submission (tamkin). Sexual submission is traditionally regarded as unconditional consent for the remainder of the marriage. This sounds like a form of prostitution.

• There is no specific minimum age for marriage, but most agree a woman must have reached puberty. Marriage as young as 12 or 13 is not uncommon in Muslim-majority countries. In Yemen in 2013, there was a highly publicized case of an eight-year-old girl who died of internal injuries suffered on her wedding night. According to Al Jazeera, "Nearly 14 percent of Yemeni girls [are] married before the age of 15 and 52 percent before the age of 18." The case prompted calls for Yemen to pass a law setting a minimum age for marriage, although it has not yet done so.

Muslim Feminists such as Dr. Elham Manea argue that the interpretation of sharia in the area of marriage amounts to discrimination, the type of which is prohibited under Western legal systems.

Male Guardianship

Male Guardianship applies to all women whether married or not according to strict interpretations of sharia. In the event of the deaths of male relatives, it can result in mothers being legally subservient to their sons. Under sharia:

• A woman becomes subservient to her husband and needs his permission to: "leave the house, take up employment, or to engage in fasting or forms of worship other than what is obligatory."
• An unmarried woman is under the guardianship of her nearest male relative.

Human Rights Watch has issued a 50-page report condemning the situation of women in Saudi Arabia alone.

Rights under International Law

International law currently exists in a grey area, as it is unclear to what extent states are bound by international treaties regarding various rights, and which of those rights, if any, international authorities have the power to enforce. The UN Declaration of Human Rights includes equal rights for women and calls have been made for Muslim countries to abide by these statutes.

UN supports equal rights for women and recently adopted a new campaign aimed at ending violence against women. The Muslim Brotherhood issued a statement condemning this UN declaration (for violating sharia principles).



Who Is Affected by Sharia?

Any Muslim woman who undertakes to be married under Islam is bound to a greater or lesser extent by sharia, depending on where they live. Muslim women living in Western countries are bound by the laws of the countries in which they live as well, whereas women living in countries such as Saudi Arabia are bound by sharia alone. In cases where sharia and the law of the land conflict, a woman is bound by sharia.

Women's Rights Under Sharia | Clarion Project

I feel you missed the point of my post, to be honest. I was saying that Islam is not some independent entity. It doesn't exist by itself. It is purely as it is expressed and understood by its adherents. Islam doesn't do, teach or say anything about anything. There are different understandings which currently predominate, but are not universal, within the various modern communities who identify with that group identity.

 

[Notanumber]

I feel you missed the point of my post, to be honest. I was saying that Islam is not some independent entity. It doesn't exist by itself. It is purely as it is expressed and understood by its adherents. Islam doesn't do, teach or say anything about anything. There are different understandings which currently predominate, but are not universal, within the various modern communities who identify with that group identity.

Islam is missing the point by calling itself the religion of peace.

 

[Kirran]

Islam is missing the point by calling itself the religion of peace.

Are you purposefully ignoring my point, or do you really not understand what I am saying?

How can 'Islam' call itself anything? You're personalising.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Well, technically they do the personalizing. All we ever hear is that they're the "Religion of Peace." Red Herring though it is, I do agree with notanumber on that; there's no such thing, really, as a religion of peace.

 

[Notanumber]

Who started calling it the religion of peace then?

Islam: The Politically Incorrect Truth

Who is implementing Sharia Law?

 

[Godobeyer]

You can't turn people gay. You can turn them to or from their homophobia though.

I don't get it.

I mean it's possible to turn gay/lesbien people to straight.

No, that's OK, I'll trust your word on it.

Thanks.

How do you mean law, then? Maybe you are misunderstanding the word's meaning - a law is like a rule, something you have to do or not do.

I meant if God don't care about laws,how about your prayers ?
Why you think that God like good people, for exemple ?

Well I think that a human having sex with an animal is near inevitably causing suffering, it is a violent act.

Back to your zero point ?
If there is not suffering, the animal enjoying and human enjoying, so ?

You believe that on blind faith, then.

I explained to you that I know Conservapedia, and I know it is not reliable based on previous experience. I also looked at the source you posted in detail, and looked at their source material. Based upon this, I don't trust what it says, and it contradicts evidence from better-supported sources and from my own experience.

Back to zero point again !

Not just conservapedia, also wikipedia and youtube and many other sources informed that homosexual people could turn straight.

 

[Shad]

Not just conservapedia, also wikipedia and youtube and many other sources informed that homosexual people could turn straight.

Yet not a single source from a medical journal. If you think Wiki and Youtube are reliable sources you have never been to collage or university.

 

[Kirran]

I don't get it.

I mean it's possible to turn gay/lesbien people to straight.

Incorrect, actually. Trying to 'turn people straight' causes massive mental trauma and is widely considered a human rights abuse. The United Nations firmly condemns it as such.

I meant if God don't care about laws,how about your prayers ?
Why you think that God like good people, for exemple ?

I pray out of love for God.

God loves us all equally.

Back to your zero point ?
If there is not suffering, the animal enjoying and human enjoying, so ?

Well it is a violation of the animal's right of consent, so I'd say it is intrinsically suffering.

Back to zero point again !

Not just conservapedia, also wikipedia and youtube and many other sources informed that homosexual people could turn straight.

Wikipedia? I don't think so, it tends to be well sourced.

People can put whatever the hell they want on Youtube, it's not reliable.