What is wrong with smashing the idols?

[YmirGF]

If one cannot quote a verse where Quran has commanded one to destroy the idols, then please comply at least to the request from friend @FearGod .
Regards

You don't need a verse from the Qur'an because you are saddled with the bizarre notion of your so-called "prophet" being a perfect example. In the vast majority of reportings, Muhammad himself, smashed the idols in the Kaaba and gleefully shouted his triumph upon completing the task. Not a terribly tolerant or respectful thing to do is it? If you cannot handle the direct connection between the two that is your cross to bear - pun intended.

 

[YmirGF]

I'm sorry to trouble you but I prefer if you can at list give me some sources to this belief.

Good luck on that one.

 

[FearGod]

Human beings are usually significantly better than the religious books they follow. The question here is on the quality of the values present in the religion itself, not the (incomparably greater) goodness humanity innately possess and often act upon.

What evidence you have that Islam forced Muslims to destroy the idols
while we see idols still existing in the Muslim world?

 

[FearGod]

Muslims have smashed idols in India for decades; they've defaced statues and all sorts. If they tried doing it in Egypt there would be international outcry, and I think they know this.

The idols in Egypt are there thousands years ago and Muslims during the middle ages
were the superpower that no nation can defeat, so if they wanted to destroy the idols
in Egypt no one in that era have the power to stops them.

 

[Rival]

The idols in Egypt are there thousands years ago and Muslims during the middle ages
were the superpower that no nation can defeat, so if they wanted to destroy the idols
in Egypt no one in that era have the power to stops them.

Why are you ignoring the fact that Muslims have smashed idols in other countries? Why just Egypt? Maybe they did smash idols there, and maybe the reason we don't know they did is because the idols don't exist now because they smashed them.

Seriously, Muslims not smashing idols in Egypt doesn't make up for the ones they smashed over and over again in India.

 

[FearGod]

That Muslims tend to pick & choose what parts of their religion to follow at any given moment is not non-Muslims' fault and is not something we need to justify or defend in debates. You asked Ymir to produce a hadith or Quran verse which justifies Muslim destruction of idols; Ymir gave you one.

If you're confused as to why some Muslims seem to ignore ahadith at will then I suggest you examine your own tendency to do so in an attempt to gain insight as to why they might not have obeyed this particular hadith verse.

First the hadith isn't a verse, I think you're confusing the the quran which is the holy book
that we trust each word of it and the hadith which are the stories told by people such as
saying we heard the prophet saying so and so etc....

That being said, the evidence which we should follow is the material and the realistic one,
the idols in Egypt and other parts of the world that were under the Islamic empire are still
existing and hence the hadith is contradicting the living evidence which says that Muslims
didn't care about destroying the idols, so if you want to believe the hadith and not the evidence
then it's only due to your wishful thinking because of your hate to Islam and Muslims.

 

[Rival]

Wait

Egypt: Looters ransack Egyptian antiques museum and snatch priceless artefacts | Daily Mail Online

Egypt’s famous Malawi National Museum has been ransacked, looted and smashed up by vandals in another example of the recent unrest in the country.

Photos of the damaged artefacts and empty display cases were released this afternoon as supporters of deposed President Mohamed Morsi fought a gunbattle with security forces in a Cairo mosque.

According to a statement made by the Ministry of Antiquities, the museum, in the Upper Egyptian city of Minya, was allegedly broken into and some artifacts were damaged and stolen on Thursday evening.

Are you happy now?​

 

[DanielR]

I'll never forgive them what they did to Nimrod ...

 

[FearGod]

Why are you ignoring the fact that Muslims have smashed idols in other countries? Why just Egypt? Maybe they did smash idols there, and maybe the reason we don't know they did is because the idols don't exist now because they smashed them.

Seriously, Muslims not smashing idols in Egypt doesn't make up for the ones they smashed over and over again in India.

Do you have a historical evidence that Muslims had destroyed idols in India?
Why they didn't destroy the Khajuraho temple?

View attachment 15988

 

[FearGod]

Wait

Egypt: Looters ransack Egyptian antiques museum and snatch priceless artefacts | Daily Mail Online

Egypt’s famous Malawi National Museum has been ransacked, looted and smashed up by vandals in another example of the recent unrest in the country.

Photos of the damaged artefacts and empty display cases were released this afternoon as supporters of deposed President Mohamed Morsi fought a gunbattle with security forces in a Cairo mosque.

According to a statement made by the Ministry of Antiquities, the museum, in the Upper Egyptian city of Minya, was allegedly broken into and some artifacts were damaged and stolen on Thursday evening.

Are you happy now?​

My question is why they didn't destroy these idols during the Islamic empire?
Why now?

 

[Rival]

Do you have a historical evidence that Muslims had destroyed idols in India?
Why they didn't destroy the Khajuraho temple?

View attachment 15988

Historical evidence?! It happened then and it's happening now!

https://vhsindia.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Diu List of mosques built by destroying temples.pdf

Islamic destruction of Hindu Temples: Tip of an iceberg - Sanskriti - Indian Culture

 

[Rival]

My question is why they didn't destroy these idols during the Islamic empire?
Why now?

Who cares? They are destroying them now.

 

[Rival]

And probably because by the time the Muslims entered Egypt it was a Christian stronghold. They were probably busier smashing Christian idols of the Virgin and Saints' Icons and demolishing Churches.

 

[Kirran]

To be fair, @Rival, I think the pointing he's making is that if destroying idols was intrinsic to Islam, it would have happened everywhere that Muslims attained predominance, but has not, as evident by the survival of Islam. At a simple level, this logic stands, although looking more closely reveals more nuance.

 

[Rival]

To be fair, @Rival, I think the pointing he's making is that if destroying idols was intrinsic to Islam, it would have happened everywhere that Muslims attained predominance, but has not, as evident by the survival of Islam. At a simple level, this logic stands, although looking more closely reveals more nuance.

His own prophet smashed idols and Muslims follow his sunnah. How much more does he need that Islam promotes idol smashing?

 

[Kirran]

His own prophet smashed idols and Muslim follow his sunnah. How much more does he need that Islam promotes idol smashing?

I was only addressing that single point, not the general issue.

 

[sayak83]

Do you have a historical evidence that Muslims had destroyed idols in India?
Why they didn't destroy the Khajuraho temple?

View attachment 15988

Persecution of Hindus - Wikipedia

The reach of Islamic empires did not extend into Central and South India a lot. Much of those regions were left under the rulership of Hindu governors who protected what they could. Still Khajuraho was targeted 4-5 times by Islamic armies and majority of the site has been destroyed before jungles hid the rest.
Khajuraho Group of Monuments - Wikipedia

 

[sayak83]

Persecution of Hindus - Wikipedia

The reach of Islamic empires did not extend into Central and South India a lot. Much of those regions were left under the rulership of Hindu governors who protected what they could. Still Khajuraho was targeted 4-5 times by Islamic armies and majority of the site has been destroyed before jungles hid the rest.
Khajuraho Group of Monuments - Wikipedia

Just in case there is any confusion, Christians destroyed all pagan temples and then Catholics and late Byzantines destroyed majority of Catholic art for religious reasons throughout Europe. Not to mention what the Spanish did to Native American places of worship in Mexico and Peru...
There is good evidence that emerging Jewish kingdoms of the 9th-8th century BCE did something similar within its domain. The entire thing runs in the family....

 

[Kirran]

Just in case there is any confusion, Christians destroyed all pagan temples and then Catholics and late Byzantines destroyed majority of Catholic art for religious reasons throughout Europe. Not to mention what the Spanish did to Native American places of worship in Mexico and Peru...
There is good evidence that emerging Jewish kingdoms of the 9th-8th century BCE did something similar within its domain. The entire thing runs in the family....

The Gaudiyas have their missionaries all over the place now - they'll sort it all out

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

First the hadith isn't a verse, I think you're confusing the the quran which is the holy book
that we trust each word of it and the hadith which are the stories told by people such as
saying we heard the prophet saying so and so etc....

Okay, fair enough. In my defence, the hadith appear to be annotated in a similar way to verses found in holy books like the Quran or the New Testament but your point is well made.

That being said, the evidence which we should follow is the material and the realistic one,
the idols in Egypt and other parts of the world that were under the Islamic empire are still
existing and hence the hadith is contradicting the living evidence which says that Muslims
didn't care about destroying the idols, so if you want to believe the hadith and not the evidence
then it's only due to your wishful thinking because of your hate to Islam and Muslims.

If the material evidence is more important than a hadith why did you ask for a hadith & not material evidence to begin with?

To answer your question: there is plenty of evidence of Muslims desecrating the sacred objects of other faiths. There are the pictures in this thread which show the results of Muslims vandalising Hindu temples & cult objects; there's Rival's post earlier on which lists instances of Muslims desecrating sacred objects of other faiths:

https://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/11/12/249092.html
"An Egyptian jihad leader, with self-professed links to the Taliban, called for the “destruction of the Sphinx and the Giza Pyramids in Egypt,” drawing ties between the Egyptian relics and Buddha statues, local media reported this week."

Foreigner Arrested For Smashing Statues Of Buddha At Sensoji - japanCRUSH
"2ch netizens have been shocked by the news that a Saudi Arabian man who is a graduate student at one of Japan’s most prestigious universities had been arrested for smashing Buddhist statues after he was reported to police for doing so at one of Tokyo’s major temples."

The 'Talibanization' of Pakistan: Islamists Destroy Buddhist Statue - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International
"When the Taliban destroyed two Buddhist statues in Afghanistan in the spring of 2001, there was an international outcry. But similar incidents are now occurring in northwest Pakistan, where radical Islamists recently blew up a sculpture of Buddha in broad daylight."

Italy: Muslims Destroy and Urinate on Virgin Mary Statue - Raymond Ibrahim
"The first thing they did was rip the photo from his hands.
Next they unleashed their hatred against the image of the Virgin Mary. They broke the statue to pieces and then urinated on it."

Do you want some more?

... and there's the Taliban destroying the two Buddha statues in Afghanistan in 2001. So there's your material evidence.