What is wrong with the Quran?

[Augustus]

The word " Deen" is translated as religion in many other places in Quran , so why translate it as judgement here .

It relates to law in that context.

The modern concept of 'religion' is really from Western Christianity and only appeared a few hundred years ago.

Din probably means closer to 'way of life' rather than religion: living according to the religious law. It is something that reflects the Jewish heritage of Islam, as din is Hebrew for law.

 

[whirlingmerc]

What specific points are raised?

Sorry, I couldn't watch the video because the 2 people in it were insufferable buffoons.

They were acting.... but it appears there are many problematic claims related to multiple versions, lost chapters, etc...

 

[Notanumber]

How many lizards have you killed?

How many dogs have you slaughtered?

You could not make it up!

 

[sovietchild]

How many lizards have you killed?

How many dogs have you slaughtered?

You could not make it up!

Narrated Um Sharik: Allah’s Apostle ordered that the salamander should be killed and said, “It (i.e. the salamander) blew (the fire) on Ibrahim.” (Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 579)

Are black dogs supposed to be Satan?

 

[whirlingmerc]

Even I wonder why it is translated so , some Arabic experts here could give an explanation.
The word " Deen" is translated as religion in many other places in Quran , so why translate it as judgement here .

I think one point is why different versions in history had different numbers of chapters... curious.... and references to forgotten verses... also curious... different variants on different manuscripts in some verses.... also curious

 

[whirlingmerc]

How many lizards have you killed?

How many dogs have you slaughtered?

You could not make it up!

I like David Wood, it's an example of God healing and showcasing someone from a seriously tragic atheist past

 

[Notanumber]

He gets his point across in a humorous way.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Angels don't enter houses with puppies? I'm finding that a bit unusual

I think God made all things good as Titus said. Dogs can sometimes smell cancer or strokes in their owners and help them. Lizards are a remarkable creation of God with zillions of micro suction cups for walking on walls and ceilings.

Obama has two black dogs but they are very cute.... one bit a visitor in the face who tried to pet it though...

 

[whirlingmerc]

He gets his point across in a humorous way.

I have to agree... love and niceness are not the same thing... hmm Wood has 'a way with words'
From hearing his history I am in awe of how God heals people and showcases the redeemed for His glory Jesus came to save sinners after all.

 

[arthra]

What is wrong with the Quran? When I read the Quran I feel peaceful and calm. Have you ever read the Quran?

Yes... I've read and studied the Qur'an several times in different translations and learned some of the Arabic. There's actually a lot of useful information online that I sometimes refer to and even some Apps that are available. I taught a class for some months at a nearby Baha'i Center and it was a learning experience. No there's nothing "wrong" with the Qur'an and I encourage people to learn more about it. One of the better translations that I used in the class can be found online at

Tanzil - Quran Navigator | القرآن الكريم

other useful sites are at

Al-Qur'an al-Kareem - القرآن الكريم
http://ia600308.us.archive.org/3/it...fTheQuran/AWordForWordMeaningOtTheQuran-1.pdf

One of the side benefits of learning Arabic is that you will also be learning some Hebrew along the way as they (Arabic and Hebrew) are "sister" languages!

 

[Augustus]

They were acting.... but it appears there are many problematic claims related to multiple versions, lost chapters, etc...

Yes, these stories exist in the Islamic tradition.

"throughout most of Islamic history there were open discussions about variant readings of the Qur’an. Things changed only in the early twentieth century. In 1924 a committee organized by the Egyptian ministry of education produced a text of the Qur’an for use within the country (and had competing editions sunk in the Nile River). This Egyptian text (slightly revised later in 1924, and again in 1936, the first year of King Farouk’s reign, for which reason it became known as the King Farouk Qur’an) has now become the standard Qur’an text. Today this text is so widespread it might lead one to conclude that the Qur’an has never had any variants. Yet this reflects the success of the Egyptian project, and not the history of the Qur’anic text.

Nevertheless, while the history of Qur’anic variants has long been a topic of academic discussion, it has also long been thought that at least the Qur’an’s consonantal skeleton was unchanging. Before the Sanaa palimpsest, no early manuscript was known to vary significantly in terms of that skeleton. The basic form of the Qur’anic text, in other words, was thought to have been more or less perfectly preserved. Yet the Sanaa manuscript, which is almost certainly the most ancient Qur’an manuscript known to us, contains a surprising number of variants, including completely different words, and presents the chapters (known as suras) of the Qur’an in a different order...

the Sanaa manuscript has so many variants that one might imagine it is a vestige of an ancient version that somehow survived Uthman’s burning of all versions of the Qur’an except his own. The problem with this idea is that the variants of that manuscript do not match the variants reported in medieval literature for those codices kept by companions of the Prophet. Sadeghi argues that this must have been the codex of some unknown companion. This is an interesting, although speculative, idea. For now all we know is that our most ancient manuscript of the Qur’an does not agree with the standard text read around the world today." (Variant Readings - GS Reynolds)

 

[whirlingmerc]

Augustus, some might inquire why the claim is that Jews and Christians should check their gospel and torah and see if the claims are true and they don't match. How might you answer such an inquiry? The gospel and apostles systemically claim Jesus is son of man and son of God who was rejected, suffered for sins, died and rose from the dead for example.

 

[Notanumber]

I would love to hear a response to the Wood Querishi video on A Brief History of the Koran

No wonder Muslims are confused.

The moral of the story is, do not rely on memory because it is unreliable.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

How does one know it. Please
Please give one's sources of knowledge for this claim.

Does the Quran say God wrote it?

Quran's original text is in Arabic, but it has been translated in many languages. One could study it. Please

But with translations you have to worry about translation accuracy. Plus, all languages evolve anyway. I can barely get through Old English, even though it's still "English". To act like the way we talk now is the way we talked millennia ago is just impossible.

Narrated Um Sharik: Allah’s Apostle ordered that the salamander should be killed and said, “It (i.e. the salamander) blew (the fire) on Ibrahim.” (Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 579)

A salamander isn't a pokemon with fire-breathing powers, though.

 

[YmirGF]

What? Is this really a thing or just a sovietchild thing? I mean, I've never heard of this. Can any other Muslims on this board confirm or deny how widespread this belief is?

It's a standard belief predicated on the simple fact that the vast majority of human animals do not remember their early childhood. People like me, who do, are few and far between. I remember and in the memory there was simply only gazing and wonderment. There was no thought of gods... there was no words attached to images. Thoughts had not yet begun and that is why Muhammad blew this idea from the get go. That his followers, the sheeple of Islam, likely do not remember anything from when they were very young so the idea seems possible and because the so-called "prophet" of Islam said so they have no reason to doubt it.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Some would say the best analogy is not between the Koran and the Bible, but the Koran and Jesus.
The Koran is said to be the eternal word come to earth, Jesus the word made flesh.
I believe Jesus is the eternal word of God made flesh

The pages of the New Testament literally sing that Jesus was the word of God made flesh, he suffered, died and rose from the dead and is Lord of heaven and earth but not so in the Koran and for that reason I would hold to the Bible.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Another issue I feel important, it that I don't see the same level of assurance and peace with God in the Koran as the Bible

 

[sovietchild]

@whirlingmerc Jesus and Mary walked on this earth and ate food like regular people while God does not eat.

 

[sovietchild]

Honestly, I don't even have a physical Quran book. Quran means recitation (spoken word). I have an audio book that I listen to and digital Quran to read sometimes out of my iPhone.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I used to have a Quran before we donated all my books to the library or Goodwill or whatever. Now I try to keep caught up on The Quran Reloaded youtube channel.