What is Your Disbelief?

[Nakosis]

It is a coincidence that you should post this question. Something that I read earlier here got me thinking about why I parted from Christianity.
Some years ago I looked back on that and reviewed it. Christianity as I recall has aspects which would make a good contemplative and communal faith. But then the magic show arrived, with walking on water, virgin births and resurrections and so on. So that is my "disbelief".

What a shame. They ruined something that really had potential.

It'd be interesting to see the Bible in a non-supernatural way. I think the Jefferson Bible attempts this.

 

[Nakosis]

Does this include emotional senses? Do you believe in love outside of that which is connected to lust?

I've posted the physical process of love several times. There exists enough explanation that the release of hormones in our bodies cause our emotional states. Love, hate, fear, anger, these states are encoded in our brain are triggered by physical events and trigger physical responses.

Feelings are a biochemical, physical response evolved to aid in our survival. Not really the most accurate biofeedback system but works well enough for us humans to survive so far. We don't consciously control this process so easy for us to think there is something mystical about it. However we do understand the physical processes of emotions like love.
2023: What happens in our brain and body when we’re in love? - University of Wollongong – UOW

 

[Nakosis]

So numbers don't exist? Mathematics? Philosophies? Thoughts?

These things exist as information which is physically stored. Like the information stored on you computer or phone. No one thing a computer needs a supernatural element to store this information.

 

[Nakosis]

Then in the most minimal, basic concept "God" can be proven. Interesting.

You can define God however you want. If you want to define God as a biochemical response, I see no problem with that.

 

[Nakosis]

This is a myth, which uses reductionism to define 'love'.

What would to add to the biochemical response of love to make it love. What do you think is missing?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Love can be detected on an MRI scan.

No, it can't. Love is not just a chemical process. Warm fuzzy feelings aren't even love, either. That just happens when you're around people you like and are having fun, but no relationship, no matter how deep, is always fun. It's a series of actions you take to support and care for those you are loyal to. You're not always going to have those warm fuzzy feelings in any relationship. But when you stay devoted to those you care for through the thick and thin, then that is love, regardless of how you feel emotionally at the time.

 

[Rival]

What would to add to the biochemical response of love to make it love. What do you think is missing?

The actual human experience.

The reason why your kids would be upset if you told them your love is just brain chemistry.

 

[Nakosis]

Who we are is qualia - whether generated by brain (physical) or God (unseen). God creating unseen qualia is easy to see, how the brain (physical) can generate qualia is impossible in my viewpoint. I'm the opposite, I believe physical existence by definition is impossible. All we imagine is created through qualia, even when we analyze five senses, it's qualia. The brain is more like web page while the code behind it is more complex and little to do with the web page we see. The web page is for us to interact with and so the body and brain is for us to interact in this world, but in reality, physical existence is impossible.

So you are saying you don't believe in the physical?

That's fine. Just not very practical. You need to eat, that is physical. You could attempt to prove that the physical is not real by refusing to eat this food that is unreal. There are a number of things you can do to test how physical things affect you.

Supernatural elements whether I believe in them or not have no adverse effects on me. To not believe in the truck that is about to run you over is going to have adverse effect on to. To not believe is a supernatural deity doesn't affect the physicality of your life.

Why should I believe in something that is not going to physically affect me?
However I understand it does have an effect on your emotional state. So does watching a movie, reading a book, etc...
It is just not necessary to affect you emotional state. IOW, you can live life without it without adverse effects.

Something you can't do with physical reality.

 

[Nakosis]

There's not much I actively "disbelieve" that I'm aware of. I do feel though that every idea of "god" out there is a man made story, though. Could a god or godlike being possibly exist? I suppose, but no one out there has convincing answers from what I can see

Ok, but why can't such a God be a physical entity?

 

[Spice]

You can define God however you want. If you want to define God as a biochemical response, I see no problem with that.

Just a friendly pulling your chain, my friend.

 

[crossfire]

What I don't believe exists is anything non-physical. Simply because I have no reason to believe in anything non-physical.
How I define physical is anything which can be detected by our senses or can affect something which we can detect by our senses.

Therefore anything claimed as supernatural or divine is imaginary to me. I understand other people believe in a reality which includes spiritual/non-physical elements. However in an argument or discussion these non-physical concepts have no significant meaning or explanatory value.

I don't mean this offensively, one has to choose for themselves what they are willing to accept. However this is how my mind works in discussions.

Do you believe in concepts that cannot manifest physically, such as a perfect circle? A perfect circle would have to contain no quantum elements.

 

[Nakosis]

I understand the logic behind your position, but I have come to believe mountains of paranormal evidence (including my own experiences) have disqualified your beliefs from being correct.

As you are into science you must know the vast majority of matter is not directly detectable by our three-dimensional senses and instruments (so-called Dark Matter). Point is you don't know what you don't know, and the paranormal evidence suggests it is some dramatic things.

Dark matter, whatever it is, affect gravitational fields which we can detect. Whatever it is, since it effects the physical is physical.
What you say is the paranormal, ok fine. Who is to say this is not the result of physical processes?

 

[Nakosis]

And yet your disbelief is itself non-physical. So it looks like you have quite the conundrum on your hands.

Actually it is informational. Information that is physically stored. Disbelief is physically encoded in my brain. It only becomes a conundrum because you insist on adding an unnecessary element to it.

 

[Nakosis]

Do you believe in concepts that cannot manifest physically, such as a perfect circle? A perfect circle would have to contain no quantum elements.

Again, informational. I can physical encode and store the attributes of a perfect circle on a computer and have it physically reproduced on a monitor. All of this informational processing, storage and display is done by known physical processes. Why do you think your brain needs to be any different?

 

[Nakosis]

Measuring the "real" heat coming off an engine while it's working does not negate the work that engine is doing as being "unreal"

Measuring the "real" biomechanics of a thinking brain does not negate the thoughts being produced by that brain as being "unreal". Especially when "real" and "unreal" are two of the very thoughts that you're presuming to negate, here. The logic of such a claim would be blatantly incoherent.

I'm certainly not talking about anything unreal except when it come to the supernatural. Heat can be physically felt/perceived and measured. Nothing non-physical about that.

 

[Spice]

"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him.". Louis Pasteur

 

[ChristineM]

No, it can't. Love is not just a chemical process. Warm fuzzy feelings aren't even love, either. That just happens when you're around people you like and are having fun, but no relationship, no matter how deep, is always fun. It's a series of actions you take to support and care for those you are loyal to. You're not always going to have those warm fuzzy feelings in any relationship. But when you stay devoted to those you care for through the thick and thin, then that is love, regardless of how you feel emotionally at the time.

Yes it can

Everything you think and do is the result of electro chemical actions in your brain.

 

[Nakosis]

You seem to have a physicalist view.

I guess you do not believe numbers exist.

Numbers are informational. Physically stored, physically processed, physically represented. What is non-physical about numbers?

 

[Quintessence]

Everything you think and do is the result of electro chemical actions in your brain.

Which, even if true, is irrelevant given day-to-day experiences of life and living patently do not reduce down to "brain chemicals." It is so absurd to suggest so I vehemently reject the extremist nonsense that is substance monism of any kind, physicalism or otherwise. Nobody experiences their actual lives as "brain chemicals." Sorry. Might as well say all reality reduces down to mathematics in spite of nobody actually experiencing life as a series of mathematical equations.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes it can

View attachment 90466

Everything you think and do is the result of electro chemical actions in your brain.

No, it isn't. That's just a brain scan and doesn't tell you anything about love except that brain regions activate in response to stimuli. And you didn't really respond to my post, either.