What is your opinion on internet privacy?

[Songbird]

As for sharing everything in a marriage, I think I have a right to read my mail and email before my husband just opens it and reads it. I have gotten letters and cards from my mother and my husband just rips them open and reads them and then tells me what they say. It makes me mad when he does this and he gets mad when I ask to let me read my mail first and if there is something he needs to hear about, I will let him know. I certainly have nothing to hide, I never write anything on the internet that is very private. But after 20 years, my husband ought to know that I have nothing to hide and he ought to trust me. I never open his mail or email unless he asks me to.

Wow, Christine, that's downright hurtful of him. I'm sorry.

 

[Alceste]

Yes. And I'm not talking specifically about your one situation with one dating partner - the conversation has developed into a discussion about mutually monogamous relationships - apparently your particular situation was not at that stage.

I also read these other words from you:



That's why I asked you for clarification (see my post above). Please answer THOSE questions regarding monogamous relationships in which your partner has given you REASON for suspicion, and is lying to cover up their actions (a very common scenario). Are you saying that even in those situations, it's wrong to look for evidence in order to be informed about the risks your sexual partner is taking with your health and well being?

You also said this:



Are you saying that sometimes "insecurities" are well founded and logical? Or that they are always a sign of some sort of inherent weakness?

I mean, "satisfy that curiosity by invading privacy" seems disdainful of the common scenario involving an unfaithful partner who is lying, and the partner whose life and health is at risk.



No. It also involves partners who are lying - about all sorts of very serious things - finances, sexual infidelity, poor business decisions, you name it. These "biggies" are life altering, damaging, embarrassing, and hurtful transgressions from the relationship agreement. Are you honestly saying that even in those situations, the innocent party has to just wait for some sort of proof outside of the computer to surface? Why?



Too LAZY??????

Vendetta - in my rather extensive experience, a lying partner doesn't share truthful information readily. People often know when they're being lied to - what they DON'T know (and need to ascertain) are the DETAILS and FACTS. They deserve to know these in order to be able to make informed decisions about their own life. When they don't get truthful information from their partner, they need to find the truth elsewhere.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that it's our RESPONSIBILITY to dig deeper and be fully informed. We can't risk our own health and financial stability just because our partner doesn't bother sharing their own poor decisions.

I agree with all of that.

It isn't a black and white question. We ought to be able to determine how much of ourselves we are willing to share with others, but if we are deceitful it is unreasonable to expect others to accept our lies without making any effort to discover the truth.

The way you describe it is how it was for me - I knew he was lying. What I didn't know was the truth. If I wanted to know that, I had to find it out on my own. He is a liar - there is nothing to be gleaned by talking to him. (I use the present tense because apparently he hasn't changed - he just lost his wife and child for the same reason).

 

[Mathematician]

You gotta' set up these expectations at the start of a relationship and revisit them if you think it's time to change. I would find her at fault, personally. But that's just me.

 

[Kathryn]

I agree with all of that.

It isn't a black and white question. We ought to be able to determine how much of ourselves we are willing to share with others, but if we are deceitful it is unreasonable to expect others to accept our lies without making any effort to discover the truth.

The way you describe it is how it was for me - I knew he was lying. What I didn't know was the truth. If I wanted to know that, I had to find it out on my own. He is a liar - there is nothing to be gleaned by talking to him. (I use the present tense because apparently he hasn't changed - he just lost his wife and child for the same reason).

Right on, sister.

It's just not black and white, because dynamics in relationships have so many nuances. Even though we know ourselves very well, we react differently to different people in different relationships. So I don't think we can simply say, "It's right," or "It's wrong."

What I do know is this - when people start hiding things in a relationship, this usually manifests itself in defensive behavior - and often lies. Once someone starts lying in a relationship (and lying can be evasiveness, for that matter), we have a right to know the truth, and to use what means we can to determine the truth.

I for one am not going to bury my head in the sand or sit by passively while someone hides pertinent information from me.

Now - to address another question: What if someone digs around and finds nothing? I'd say then that they should be relieved, and re assess their own attitudes and behaviors. They should objectively try to determine WHY they are so suspicious - is it rooted in them, or in the actions of the other person? Some people ARE insecure, and never at peace in ANY relationship. If so, as an adult, surely they've seen a pattern in their own life.

If not, frankly there's not much hope for the relationship. If you find yourself hooked up with someone who is suspicious, you usually also find that they are controlling. Get out. Get out now! This doesn't get any better over time!

But also know - if you guard your cell phone and your computer like a rabid dog - you should ask yourself WHY you are so afraid of someone close to you knowing who you talk to and what you discuss. What do you have to hide?

Everybody just needs to chill out and behave themselves. :beach:

 

[Vendetta]

Yes. And I'm not talking specifically about your one situation with one dating partner - the conversation has developed into a discussion about mutually monogamous relationships - apparently your particular situation was not at that stage.

I also read these other words from you:



That's why I asked you for clarification (see my post above). Please answer THOSE questions regarding monogamous relationships in which your partner has given you REASON for suspicion, and is lying to cover up their actions (a very common scenario). Are you saying that even in those situations, it's wrong to look for evidence in order to be informed about the risks your sexual partner is taking with your health and well being?

You also said this:



Are you saying that sometimes "insecurities" are well founded and logical? Or that they are always a sign of some sort of inherent weakness?

I mean, "satisfy that curiosity by invading privacy" seems disdainful of the common scenario involving an unfaithful partner who is lying, and the partner whose life and health is at risk.



No. It also involves partners who are lying - about all sorts of very serious things - finances, sexual infidelity, poor business decisions, you name it. These "biggies" are life altering, damaging, embarrassing, and hurtful transgressions from the relationship agreement. Are you honestly saying that even in those situations, the innocent party has to just wait for some sort of proof outside of the computer to surface? Why?



Too LAZY??????

Vendetta - in my rather extensive experience, a lying partner doesn't share truthful information readily. People often know when they're being lied to - what they DON'T know (and need to ascertain) are the DETAILS and FACTS. They deserve to know these in order to be able to make informed decisions about their own life. When they don't get truthful information from their partner, they need to find the truth elsewhere.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that it's our RESPONSIBILITY to dig deeper and be fully informed. We can't risk our own health and financial stability just because our partner doesn't bother sharing their own poor decisions.

Ok this whole thread was based off someone I am dating not someone I was married to. You appear to keep evaluating the situation as if we were together. STOP STOP STOP looking at t from a strictly monogamous marital point of view. Overall this girl looked through messages on my facebook which were extensions to previous phone conversations. She didn't look at the date when these messages were sent, she over reacted and notbonly didn't tell me why she was upset, but blasted my name with profanity over facebook. I take it women like to not say other women are wrong especially women who have been cheated on but in this case she was wrong point blank this is why we are discussing this now to discuss the limits of internet privacy.

I kept listing red flags kathryn but obviously it flew over your head. OVERWEIGHT WOMEN WITH LOW SELF ESTEEM ARE INCAPABLE OF SUSTAINING A RELATIONSHIP IF THEY DON'T HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THEMSELVES. It was her insecurity that lead to our downfall. As far as laziness is cocerned in my opinion if a woman chooses to not express some doubts she has to her significant partner she is in my opinion lazy, especially if her alternative is to be most in a persons personal stuff. I understand all that stuff you mentioned about suspicious partners but I am particularly talking about this girl in my case. Please turn off the women power stuff and see my side for once FFS

 

[Archer]

OVERWEIGHT WOMEN WITH LOW SELF ESTEEM ARE INCAPABLE OF SUSTAINING A RELATIONSHIP IF THEY DON'T HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THEMSELVES.

That is prejudice and you know it. So if I said:

OVERWEIGHT MEN WITH LOW SELF ESTEEM ARE INCAPABLE OF SUSTAINING A RELATIONSHIP IF THEY DON'T HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THEMSELVES.

or

OVERWEIGHT PEOPLE WITH LOW SELF ESTEEM ARE INCAPABLE OF SUSTAINING A RELATIONSHIP IF THEY DON'T HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THEMSELVES.

or how about

PEOPLE WITH LOW SELF ESTEEM ARE INCAPABLE OF SUSTAINING A RELATIONSHIP IF THEY DON'T HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THEMSELVES.

or better yet

SOME PEOPLE ARE INCAPABLE OF SUSTAINING A RELATIONSHIP IF THEY DON'T HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THEMSELVES.

The overweight and low self confidence gives it away. Evidently this one was not going to be played; player. She had enough confidence to let everyone know what you are. Oh and lets not forget the lazy comment as well.

To me you sound like a player who got found out. Constantly on the Fat (overweight) and low self confidence stuff. It sounds like you have the problem to me. Looking for women who lack self confidence so you can pump them up and get them in the bed. I have seen a lot of that crap and heard it too.

Here is an example:

Hey Joe.

What?

I am going to run up in that fat chick down the road.

Why?

Easy *** man easy ***.

How's that?

She is always down on herself and I am in between women at the moment so I may as well make her feel good and get me some relief.

Cool..........................

I have seen it and I think that is what you were doing. Good for her. Another playa busted.

I only say this because you are constantly commenting on her flaws and evidently you don't like those characteristics in a woman. I guess you have some confidence issues yourself.

You want to man up? Try getting a woman and keeping her; if you can. Hell old married guys like me get a lot more loving than kids and players chasing tail.

 

[Hypersonic]

Um, wow....

 

[Vendetta]

That is prejudice and you know it. So if I said:

OVERWEIGHT MEN WITH LOW SELF ESTEEM ARE INCAPABLE OF SUSTAINING A RELATIONSHIP IF THEY DON'T HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THEMSELVES.

or

OVERWEIGHT PEOPLE WITH LOW SELF ESTEEM ARE INCAPABLE OF SUSTAINING A RELATIONSHIP IF THEY DON'T HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THEMSELVES.

or how about

PEOPLE WITH LOW SELF ESTEEM ARE INCAPABLE OF SUSTAINING A RELATIONSHIP IF THEY DON'T HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THEMSELVES.

or better yet

SOME PEOPLE ARE INCAPABLE OF SUSTAINING A RELATIONSHIP IF THEY DON'T HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THEMSELVES.

The overweight and low self confidence gives it away. Evidently this one was not going to be played; player. She had enough confidence to let everyone know what you are. Oh and lets not forget the lazy comment as well.

To me you sound like a player who got found out. Constantly on the Fat (overweight) and low self confidence stuff. It sounds like you have the problem to me. Looking for women who lack self confidence so you can pump them up and get them in the bed. I have seen a lot of that crap and heard it too.

Here is an example:

Hey Joe.

What?

I am going to run up in that fat chick down the road.

Why?

Easy *** man easy ***.

How's that?

She is always down on herself and I am in between women at the moment so I may as well make her feel good and get me some relief.

Cool..........................

I have seen it and I think that is what you were doing. Good for her. Another playa busted.

I only say this because you are constantly commenting on her flaws and evidently you don't like those characteristics in a woman. I guess you have some confidence issues yourself.

You want to man up? Try getting a woman and keeping her; if you can. Hell old married guys like me get a lot more loving than kids and players chasing tail.

It is a prejudice example but with reason. Seeing how you and Kathryn are nitpicking and seeing how I have to continually keep going back explaining myself it has gotten frustrating for me (notice the caps).

Let me explain how the ball.rolled down hill......again....and....again and.......

During us dating and taking her out her weight was always an issue for her, never for me. Since I was constantly training (running on the beach, swimming etc) I thought "why not bring her along? Its fun, interactive and it helps both of us. She hung in there for a short while but her eating habits were problematic. I am not one to tell another adult what to do I mentioned (with caution) of tasty alternatives that are also healthy. Now where I am going isn't about workouts or types of foods but her lack in confidence. Even though we were only dating I tried my best to compliment her features and although she is an attractive woman I couldn't force her to see that. Her weight plus women I knew was a constant issue. She always was paranoid. I would be at school and she would be paranoid. Even at my graduation my female cousins who are gorgeous she thought were women I was with! I continually had to reassure someone who I am not even with over and over these were friends and family. Then much later comes the issue with facebook. Forget being overweight! Let's say low self esteem period, I believe if you suffer from low self esteem its difficult to maintain any intimate relationship because how can a person who is extremely critical on how they perceive themselves going to sustain an intimate relationship? That is my point. Her behavior was volitile especially since she had irrational paranoia!

If majority of our phone conversation is about me reassuring her how the hell would a relationship work? Simply finding my undeleted messages was icing on the cake. It has nothing to do with being a player old man but everything to do with how the other half sees themselves and their worth in the relationship. I wasn't the problem, she was old man.

 

[Alceste]

Ok, vendetta, she does sound like a mess, but in fairness the OP made it sound like you were trying to arrange a hook-up with an old flame on facebook while telling her you were just going to hang out with your friends (without her). IF things went down that way, I think the snooping was inevitable. Right or wrong doesn't factor into it, for me.

 

[Vendetta]

Ok, vendetta, she does sound like a mess, but in fairness the OP made it sound like you were trying to arrange a hook-up with an old flame on facebook while telling her you were just going to hang out with your friends (without her). IF things went down that way, I think the snooping was inevitable. Right or wrong doesn't factor into it, for me.

Alceste I am going to tell you like I told Kathryn, did you read my previous comments word for word? The message my friend read was old. Besides my ex and I are good friends and the feelings I used to have are no longer. I apologize but its a bit frustrating when I am met with girl power when I didn't even do nothing which brings me back to the whole privacy issue. When can person business be disclosed? What is the proper communicating in dating relationships that allow such disclosures?

 

[Archer]

It is a prejudice example but with reason. Seeing how you and Kathryn are nitpicking and seeing how I have to continually keep going back explaining myself it has gotten frustrating for me (notice the caps).

Let me explain how the ball.rolled down hill......again....and....again and.......

During us dating and taking her out her weight was always an issue for her, never for me. Since I was constantly training (running on the beach, swimming etc) I thought "why not bring her along? Its fun, interactive and it helps both of us. She hung in there for a short while but her eating habits were problematic. I am not one to tell another adult what to do I mentioned (with caution) of tasty alternatives that are also healthy. Now where I am going isn't about workouts or types of foods but her lack in confidence. Even though we were only dating I tried my best to compliment her features and although she is an attractive woman I couldn't force her to see that. Her weight plus women I knew was a constant issue. She always was paranoid. I would be at school and she would be paranoid. Even at my graduation my female cousins who are gorgeous she thought were women I was with! I continually had to reassure someone who I am not even with over and over these were friends and family. Then much later comes the issue with facebook. Forget being overweight! Let's say low self esteem period, I believe if you suffer from low self esteem its difficult to maintain any intimate relationship because how can a person who is extremely critical on how they perceive themselves going to sustain an intimate relationship? That is my point. Her behavior was volitile especially since she had irrational paranoia!

If majority of our phone conversation is about me reassuring her how the hell would a relationship work? Simply finding my undeleted messages was icing on the cake. It has nothing to do with being a player old man but everything to do with how the other half sees themselves and their worth in the relationship. I wasn't the problem, she was old man.

I understand you point.

 

[Vendetta]

As you can see her snooping was her chance to see my personal business and to try to "bust me." She found information she didn't like. She ran with it, only for me to let her know that the information she was going on was old. So now I had some crazy chick blowing up my facebook where all my family and friends to see!

I am going to tell you what I told her. If I was truly a player, I wouldn't be dumb enough to hand her my password to all my information. Also, facebook has features where you can hide stuff from friends and family. Her reason behind all this was the fact that she was cheated on. In my view being cheated on gives nobody any right to Snoop. If I wanted to live my life and worrying about if my mate is cheating I would have chronic stress. I know plenty of military wives who know their place to not Snoop around a man's stuff just as their husbands don't Snoop. I should've known it was not a good situation because as I remember now I gave her my email so she could email me and she went off and googled my email address to see what activities I was in.

 

[Alceste]

Alceste I am going to tell you like I told Kathryn, did you read my previous comments word for word? The message my friend read was old. Besides my ex and I are good friends and the feelings I used to have are no longer. I apologize but its a bit frustrating when I am met with girl power when I didn't even do nothing which brings me back to the whole privacy issue. When can person business be disclosed? What is the proper communicating in dating relationships that allow such disclosures?

Yeah I got the wrong impression - I missed the bit that said they were all old messages at first. I still think some amount of snooping is pretty much inevitable in most relationships, though. There is probably some formula that determines how much. Partner A's trustworthiness / Partner B's self-confidence = probability partner B is reading partner A's diary right now... something like that...

OTOH, there really is no such thing as privacy on the internet - facebook especially.

 

[Hypersonic]

Yeah I got the wrong impression - I missed the bit that said they were all old messages at first. I still think some amount of snooping is pretty much inevitable in most relationships, though. There is probably some formula that determines how much. Partner A's trustworthiness / Partner B's self-confidence = probability partner B is reading partner A's diary right now... something like that...

OTOH, there really is no such thing as privacy on the internet - facebook especially.

Are you referring to as far as the law is concerned?

 

[Alceste]

As you can see her snooping was her chance to see my personal business and to try to "bust me." She found information she didn't like. She ran with it, only for me to let her know that the information she was going on was old. So now I had some crazy chick blowing up my facebook where all my family and friends to see!

I am going to tell you what I told her. If I was truly a player, I wouldn't be dumb enough to hand her my password to all my information. Also, facebook has features where you can hide stuff from friends and family. Her reason behind all this was the fact that she was cheated on. In my view being cheated on gives nobody any right to Snoop. If I wanted to live my life and worrying about if my mate is cheating I would have chronic stress. I know plenty of military wives who know their place to not Snoop around a man's stuff just as their husbands don't Snoop. I should've known it was not a good situation because as I remember now I gave her my email so she could email me and she went off and googled my email address to see what activities I was in.

Let me tell you, as someone who has had it both ways: when my man isn't cheating I don't worry about whether or not he is cheating at all. Zero stress. When my man cheats I do worry and stress out about it - until I discover the truth - by any possible means, including snooping. When the truth comes out, the worry and stress (and the man) goes.

I realize that some people worry about infidelity more than they should due to their insecurities or neuroses, but AFAIK I have never been wrong.

 

[Alceste]

Are you referring to as far as the law is concerned?

As far as reality is concerned.

 

[Hypersonic]

I think I follow you. I am of the opinion with all the issues of spyware, hackers, and government tapping, nobody's account is safe.

 

[Mathematician]

In my experience people with major insecurity issues aren't worth it, and are the first to throw beneath the bus as soon as someone else shows interest, so no harm done.

 

[Archer]

In my experience people with major insecurity issues aren't worth it, and are the first to throw beneath the bus as soon as someone else shows interest, so no harm done.

So if a person is insecure you feel they should be used and then thrown away?

That is pathetic and I hope it happens to you often. People are not toys to be used and abused.

 

[Kathryn]

Ok this whole thread was based off someone I am dating not someone I was married to. You appear to keep evaluating the situation as if we were together. STOP STOP STOP looking at t from a strictly monogamous marital point of view.

Vendetta - subjects evolve in this forum. Your particular situation has already been addressed, by me and by others, and we've moved on to the bigger question of whether or not it is EVER acceptable to dig into any partner's private email and cell phone.

Overall this girl looked through messages on my facebook which were extensions to previous phone conversations. She didn't look at the date when these messages were sent, she over reacted and notbonly didn't tell me why she was upset, but blasted my name with profanity over facebook.

And that's inappropriate - and I and several others have already pointed that out. We agree with you. But we're now discussing other situations involving the question of whether or not "snooping" is ever appropriate.

I take it women like to not say other women are wrong especially women who have been cheated on but in this case she was wrong point blank this is why we are discussing this now to discuss the limits of internet privacy.

I'm not and have not defended her actions. I HAVE asked questions to determine what level your relationship was at - and you've answered them. I then went on to say that if your rendition of what happened is true, then it's a good thing you broke things off with her. I even said that you deserve better treatment and a better relationship than the one which was developing with her.

I kept listing red flags kathryn but obviously it flew over your head.

Well, as much as I respect what I know of you, Vendetta, I DO find it difficult at times to carry on a reasonable discussion with you, for reasons I don't fully grasp. I think it's pretty obvious that I've already addressed your particular situation and am now moving forward with a more general discussion of internet privacy. Obviously this has flown right over your head.

OVERWEIGHT WOMEN WITH LOW SELF ESTEEM ARE INCAPABLE OF SUSTAINING A RELATIONSHIP IF THEY DON'T HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THEMSELVES.

Perhaps - and men with complexes about the size of their penis may be incapable of sustaining a relationship if they don't have confidence in themselves. But is that the point of this thread? I thought the thread was about internet privacy in relationships.

As far as laziness is cocerned in my opinion if a woman chooses to not express some doubts she has to her significant partner she is in my opinion lazy, especially if her alternative is to be most in a persons personal stuff.

Thanks for the clarification.

I understand all that stuff you mentioned about suspicious partners but I am particularly talking about this girl in my case.

And I was asking about your opinion on "all the stuff I mentioned." Are you going to address those particular situations? We've already discussed your particular case. How 'bout giving the questions I asked you a go?

Please turn off the women power stuff and see my side for once.

I AM a powerful woman - it's basically impossible (and imprudent) for me to turn that mojo off.

This has nothing to do with refusing to see your side, Vendetta. I've simply gone with the flow of the thread and expanded the conversation. These things happen. On my own thread about visiting Europe, the discussion has now morphed into finding a good Asian restaurant in Texas!