-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
"What Jesus REALLY meant was ...."
- Thread starter John1.12
- Start date
None of these support your belief that a correct understanding is required in order for a person to be saved.
There is NO verse in the Bible that says such.
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Barry, the text in your Bible might say that ‘God’ came but there is nowhere in scriptures else that says ‘God came’ anywhere. God does not come into his creation... he sends his angels, in resemblance to men and sends his Spirit into the minds of others.
Jesus was ‘FILLED’ with the Holy Spirit OF GOD at his baptism... and God spoke saying that this Son (of man) was His Son in whom he was well pleased.
Howbeit that ALMIGHTY GOD should say that he was pleased with ALMIGHTY GOD?
Howbeit that Almighty God should say to almighty God: ‘You are my son, today I have become YOUR FATHER’?
Howbeit that Almighty God should raise up almighty God from the dead (!!what!!) and glorify almighty God with an immortal body when almighty God needs not a body let alone for it to be immortal seeing that almighty God CREATED the body of men ... bodies that even angels can create but cannot enliven with independent spirits.
Barry, are you weeping at the realisation of your errors? You should be....!
And have you found out what ‘Fullness’ and ‘Godhead’ mean yet?
Have you realised that it is complete nonsense to say that your almighty God-man was filled with the fullness of the godhead when fullness means the entirety and godhead means ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’, thereby making your God-man ‘Full of HIMSELF’?
You are in denial... ‘a strong delusion such that you are believing the lie!’
Jesus is a man, born of the Holy Spirit just as the first man, Adam was born of the Holy Spirit, called, therefore, ‘the last Adam’ (the last Holy Spirit enlivened man with no sin, holy snd righteous in all his ways) was created, sanctified BY GOD, anointed with the Holy Spirit to do good, tested and tempted without breach of holiness, confessed GOD as his Father and delivered the testimony of the Father, laid down his life for dispelling of the sin of Adam, raised up BY GOD, blessed with an immortal body, raised up to heaven BY GOD, seated at the right hand of God, given power and authority to rule for a period of time (Joseph / Mordeciah), the salvation of mankind and all creation, granted to judge the world, granted his own throne OVER CREATION as its king, the spiritual throne of David. Amen!
1 cor 1.15
1¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain .
3¶For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Ha ha ha... Barry, Barry, Barry... you make me laugh so much!!!!
Barry, the Father IS GOD.......
So if you say that ‘God’ came in the flesh then YOU ARE SAYING that ‘The Father came in the flesh’.
And also, you are saying that ‘The Holy Spirit came in the flesh’
Barry, Barry, Barry, you cannot DIVIDE GOD because God is not divisible. God is ONE.
If God came then ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’ came...
When ‘YOUR God’ died, all of ‘YOUR God’ died... and that makes a farce of then saying that ‘God, who is dead, raised up God from the dead’.
You know this nonsense to be true because Jesus, who you say IS GOD tells us in Revelation that:
- ‘I am he who WAS DEAD but AM NOW ALIVE ETERNALLY’
But yet, the Father, who sits on the throne, says of himself:
- ‘I am, I have been, and I always will be’
Come on Barry, do the right thing, eh!!!
Does not support your stance that a correct understanding of God is required to be saved.
Remember: LDS Christians believe that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, died for our sins and rose from the dead. Salvation is through faith in Him. There is zero conflict with 1 Corinthians 1:15. There isn't any conflict with any Bible verse. There is conflict with Creedal statements about consubstantiality <- those are actual differences. Very academic stuff about Biblical interpretation that most Christians don't even study and aren't in actual Bible itself.
And every verse on the Gospel ( after the giving of the Holy Spirit ) specifically say how salvation is appropraited and what the prerequisite is .
Take eph 1.13
12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Says zero about how correct understanding is requires for salvation. I already addressed this specific verse.
Jesus is not the father .
If I tell someone to go through the blue door to safety, when its the green door , does correct information make the difference ?
You have no Bible verse.
You don't believe 1cor 15 according to the Scriptures. Which is my entire point.
You have no bible verse that says Jesus is the brother of satan , or that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God . Nor that God was once a man . Or that salvation is by grace after all that you can do .
I'll repeat this one last time: you are the person arguing that God's truth are only stated in the Bible and that they are stated there plainly. However, there is NO verse in the Bible that says a correct understanding of God is required for salvation. Rather, such is a statement of "anti-cultists" teachers. Furthermore, the actual difference between LDS Christians and Creedal Christians on the nature of God is not about any Biblical statements (divinity of Christ, His sacrifice & resurrection, necessity of faith, etc), but over academic Creedal statements on consubstantiality that most Creedal Christians don't even study and aren't remotely required for salvation. Here is the big one that's a source of disagreement: \
"...that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person...." (the Athanasian Creed, 500 AD).
Jesus literally chastised the Jews / scribes / Pharisees on the fact they had deviated from the correct understanding of God and the scriptures. The whole OT is pointing out Israel wandering from the truth about God and the scriptures.
The whole of Rom 1 .18 0nwards is about this .
18¶For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24¶Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Tell me if this is not saying its not important to have the right understanding of God . Verse 23 and 24 especially?
These verses do not support your understanding, nor your stance that "Mormons aren't Christians" based off of theological differences that's aren't even found in scripture.
Inlight of those verses, to say a correct understanding of God doesn't matter ,is slightly bonkers, with respect .
No one said it doesn't matters. However, no where in the Bible does it say a correct understanding is essential for salvation.
And again, the theological differences are over things that aren't even found in scripture. Are you really going to argue that it's essential for salvation to believe a Creedal statement written in 500AD?
Last edited:
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24¶Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie , and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.