What Makes a Christian a Christian?

[ppp]

Actually, the doctrines of the Holy Spirit, and the Trinity predate the bible.

You say that like you are thinking that addresses my point. If that is your intent, I don't know why.

 

[Cooky]

You say that like you are thinking that addresses my point. If that is your intent, I don't know why.

You said: "All you are doing is saying that your interpretation of the Bible is the right one and that no one with different interpretation is doing it right."

...I'm telling you that the ideas of Trinity and Holy Spirit were recorded as having existed before the Bible was compiled... So it's not even about the bible.

 

[ppp]

I am only seeking to fit my opinion to the Bible, not the other way around. If you think I am twisting scripture, feel free to point it out to me, I am not trying to condemn anyone

My point is that most of you do the same - seek to fit your respective opinions to the Bible - and you all latch onto different things. And because the Bible contains ambiguous and contradictory passages, you all come up with different "correct" interpretations and explanations that are back up by your chosen texts. The Bible is the great big book of multiple choice.

 

[ppp]

...I'm telling you that the ideas of Trinity and Holy Spirit were recorded as having existed before the Bible was compiled... So it's not even about the bible.

I don't know why you think that the existence of ideas prior to the Bible would matter. The idea of gods and sacrifices and prophets existed before the Bible too. So what?

 

[Cooky]

How so?

Tertullian was born in the year 155... The New Testament was not completed until the early 300's

Tertullian's main emphasis is on the doctrine of the Trinity. He speaks extensively about the Trinity in his work against a certain Praxeas and also anticipates the classical formula of tres personae, una substantia (e.g. Adverus Praxean 13; CCL 2, 1173-76). In attempting to describe the Trinitarian mystery, Tertullian speaks not only of the autonomy of each of the different 'persons', but also of them being 'of one substance' (Kelly 1968:114-115). His ideas possibly tend to subordinate the Spirit to the other 'persons' of the Trinity, which leads one to question the extent to which the proclaimed unius substantiae of one substance') of the Spirit has an essential and eternal character (De Boer 1963-1964:364).6

Also, Irenaus speaks about the Holy Spirit prior to the Bible in his work "Against Heresies" (Adversus Haereses ).

 

[Batya]

My point is that most of you do the same - seek to fit your respective opinions to the Bible - and you all latch onto different things. And because the Bible contains ambiguous and contradictory passages, you all come up with different "correct" interpretations and explanations that are back up by your chosen texts. The Bible is the great big book of multiple choice.

I will have to respectfully absolutely disagree that the Bible is contradictory. I know that there are many opinions, but that doesn't make the Bible itself contradictory. Please give me an example of how I am trying to fit the Bible to my opinions.

 

[Cooky]

I don't know why you think that the existence of ideas prior to the Bible would matter. The idea of gods and sacrifices and prophets existed before the Bible too. So what?

This thread is called What makes a Christian a Christian... I'm telling you what the earliest recorded Christian writings were saying... The people closest to the time of Christ, who were taught by people who lived in the time of Jesus, and talked to him.

 

[Batya]

Tertullian was born in the year 155... The New Testament was not completed until the early 300's

Tertullian's main emphasis is on the doctrine of the Trinity. He speaks extensively about the Trinity in his work against a certain Praxeas and also anticipates the classical formula of tres personae, una substantia (e.g. Adverus Praxean 13; CCL 2, 1173-76). In attempting to describe the Trinitarian mystery, Tertullian speaks not only of the autonomy of each of the different 'persons', but also of them being 'of one substance' (Kelly 1968:114-115). His ideas possibly tend to subordinate the Spirit to the other 'persons' of the Trinity, which leads one to question the extent to which the proclaimed unius substantiae of one substance') of the Spirit has an essential and eternal character (De Boer 1963-1964:364).6

Also, Irenaus speaks about the Holy Spirit prior to the Bible in his work "Against Heresies" (Adversus Haereses ).

I agree that the holy spirit was in existence before the Bible was written. I'm not so sure that I am in agreement with everything Tertullian has to say in general though

 

[ppp]

will have to respectfully absolutely disagree that the Bible is contradictory. I know that there are many opinions, but that doesn't make the Bible itself contradictory. Please give me an example of how I am trying to fit the Bible to my opinions.

I know you disagree. But y'all literally argue over everything from the nature of Jesus, to the requirement for salvation to what is figurate/literal, to whether the Gospel accounts of who first saw Jesus after the resurrection conflict and why. And if you get two or more Christians/Christ-Followers/etc arguing over one of those topics, they will all quote supporting passages for their point of view.

I don't believe that I said you were trying to fit the Bible to your opinions. I said that you all latch onto different things in the Bible.

 

[ppp]

This thread is called What makes a Christian a Christian... I'm telling you what the earliest recorded Christian writings were saying... The people closest to the time of Christ, who were taught by people who lived in the time of Jesus, and talked to him.

They were possibly taught by people who had talked to Jesus. They were definitely taught by people who never met Jesus.

 

[Desert Snake]

John 3:32
Romans 5:12

Belief

 

[Heyo]

1. look at your organs and see how they perform their exact duties
2. look at the sun and how far and yet close it heats up your body
3. see how fruits and vegetables grow from liquid particles and rays from the sun
4. see how finely tuned the earth is
5. see how your heart pumps blood across your body
5. and how your eyes are more powerful then the created lenses

nothing cant come from nothing

and

6. Read the Quran and read the life of Prophet Muhammad

"Look at the trees!", rly?

That argument can be (and has been) used by any and every religion and failed to convince non believers for millennia.

It also gets debunked frequently on RF. You are new to the game. No veteran member would try that move.

 

[Muffled]

What Makes a Christian a Christian?

I understand, if one leaves the bad teachings of sinful Paul and follows the good teaching of innocent Jesus, only then a wrong Christian becomes the truthful follower of innocent Jesus Christ and hence becomes the true Christian. Right friends, please?

Regards

I believe you are wrong. This is Paul writing:

Gal 2:16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

 

[Muffled]

I believe that 98% of Christians don't actually believe in the Christian doctrines anymore but are cultural Christians. the most educated Christians cant believe the Bible to be actually from God due to the errors and they are able to read the bible for themselves, unlike the past.

I believe that is wishful thinking on you part. However there are areas of disagreement on some doctrines.

 

[Muffled]

Ok,

so the question is why don't you become a Muslim?

I know why I would never become a Muslim. I won't find salvation or eternal life in it and the laws were designed for Arabs of ancient times and it is better for me to do what Jesus wants.

 

[sojourner]

I believe that 98% of Christians don't actually believe in the Christian doctrines anymore but are cultural Christians. the most educated Christians cant believe the Bible to be actually from God due to the errors and they are able to read the bible for themselves, unlike the past.

What are the “Christian doctrines” you speak of?

 

[Moses_UK]

I am here for discussion. Not homework or pamphlets. I am not adverse to taking recommendations but only after the person has laid down a cogent and thoughtful groundwork. You have not done that,

For the sake of good will I took a look at the first few minutes of the youtube. I was disappointed, yet completely unsurprised that it was a variation of the Kalam.

I know why I would never become a Muslim. I won't find salvation or eternal life in it and the laws were designed for Arabs of ancient times and it is better for me to do what Jesus wants.

How do you know what Jesus wants? Jesus didn't write the Bible
and you claim you are doing what Jesus wants. let me ask you these questions

1. Why are the authors of the canonical gospels anonymous?
2. why where they complied and canonized 100s of years after the death of Jesus?
3. Why have lots of texts (doctrinal) been omitted and changed in the NIV in comparison to the KJV?
4. Why has the Bible got lots of contradictions?

If you want me to teach you about Christianity please ask and stop following the pagan beliefs of your forefathers.

what do you mean by salvation? are you quoting Sauls's statements?

You claim Islam is an Arab religion when Arabs consist of 20% of all Muslims worldwide.

 

[sojourner]

How can an educated man/women believe in a book that has thousands of contradictions? it's all financial. Pastors in the US get paid big bucks to sway people into blind faith. it's better to have a Christian population than a thinking population for the government.

The doctrines were later interpolations to suite the Romans leaderships.

What do you mean by “believe in?” I believe in the Bible; I’ve seen it and studied it. It really does exist! Do I believe it’s infallible? No; it’s not designed to be. Does it contain contradictions? Of course; that’s the nature of the beast. But the Christian Faith is not predicated upon the Bible, but rather the Apostles’ teaching, the prayers, and the breaking of bread.

I'm a pastor on the US. I know of hundreds of colleagues in the US. None of us are getting “big bucks.” I can only afford one car and a house that’s worth less than $150k. I can’t afford to take a nice vacation. I get paid less than the national median income. And I don’t encourage people to blind faith.

you must think that we’re all Joel Osteens or some such dog-and-pony show.

 

[Moses_UK]

What are the “Christian doctrines” you speak of?

1. No person of sound mind can believe that a man who lived 2000 years ago died for all humans
2. No person of sound mind can believe that the bible is inerrant
3. no person can believe that Jesus's real teachings were Christians practice today

the list can go onnnnnnn

 

[sojourner]

How do you know what Jesus wants? Jesus didn't write the Bible
and you claim you are doing what Jesus wants. let me ask you these questions

1. Why are the authors of the canonical gospels anonymous?
2. why where they complied and canonized 100s of years after the death of Jesus?
3. Why have lots of texts (doctrinal) been omitted and changed in the NIV in comparison to the KJV?
4. Why has the Bible got lots of contradictions?

If you want me to teach you about Christianity please ask and stop following the pagan beliefs of your forefathers.

what do you mean by salvation? are you quoting Sauls's statements?

You claim Islam is an Arab religion when Arabs consist of 20% of all Muslims worldwide.

Snark much? Someone needs a shot of bourbon ...