What Makes a Christian a Christian?

[ppp]

How do you know that most atheists come from Christian backgrounds? Is that something you can demonstrate, or is that just the third baseless claim in those two sentences?

Am certain you have a Christian background whilst at the same time state you don't have faith.

So, your answer is that you cannot demonstrate that most atheists come from Christian backgrounds, and that it was a baseless claim.

 

[Moses_UK]

So, your answer is that you cannot demonstrate that most atheists come from Christian backgrounds, and that it was a baseless claim.

Secular progressive liberal atheists come from continents ranging from south America/North America and Europe. countries such as Russia and the countries in the caucuses with high concentrations of atheists all have 1 thing in common, Christian history.

 

[sojourner]

e.g.?

Shia believe in hereditary succession; Sunni do not. And there are disputes over the content of the Koranic canon.

 

[Moses_UK]

Shia believe in hereditary succession; Sunni do not. And there are disputes over the content of the Koranic canon.

Succession is not doctrinal. Shias and Sunnis both believe in Allah, prophet Muhamed, and the Quran.

try again

 

[ppp]

Secular progressive liberal atheists come from continents ranging from south America/North America and Europe. countries such as Russia and the countries in the caucuses with high concentrations of atheists all have 1 thing in common, Christian history.

So we are throwing out "Secular progressive liberal atheists". Your claim was that there are more atheists (no qualifiers) with a Christian background than not. Please have the honor and the guts to keep to your own word.

Ok. Let me help you out here. In order to claim that X is more than Y, you have to demonstrate that you are able to obtain the count of both X and Y to a reasonable degree of accuracy. If X is the number of atheists who are former Christians, and Y is the number of atheist who are not former Christians, then you would have to provide the numbers for both in order to support your claim. As you have not done so, your claim is baseless.

 

[ppp]

Succession is not doctrinal. Shias and Sunnis both believe in Allah, prophet Muhamed, and the Quran.

try again

This is a pointless debate. Islam is founded on an undemonstrated claim. Until that claim is demonstrated, Islam is inconsistent with rational thought.

 

[sojourner]

Succession is not doctrinal. Shias and Sunnis both believe in Allah, prophet Muhamed, and the Quran.

try again

Canon is though. And all Christians believe in God, Jesus, and the Bible.

You’re throwing rocks from your glass house.

 

[Heyo]

How do you know that most atheists come from Christian backgrounds? Is that something you can demonstrate, or is that just the third baseless claim in those two sentences?

At least there are very few atheists coming from a Muslim background. At least not many who survived.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Who decides who is a Christian? Is it the authorities of the church, which is the repository and curator of the Faith, and traditionally through which one comes to faith? Or can anyone just dub her or himself “Christian?” Who holds the keys to the kingdom?

That's why I don't judge. Who am I to say?
With certain denominations and belief structures that might not hold true, but from my perspective as an outsider?
I'll take their claims at face value, mostly.

 

[Muffled]

How do you know Jesus believed and taught all these good practices? Did Jesus come to you directly? or are you taking the Bible's account?

I believe the answer is both.

 

[Muffled]

Secular progressive liberal atheists come from continents ranging from south America/North America and Europe. countries such as Russia and the countries in the caucuses with high concentrations of atheists all have 1 thing in common, Christian history.

Maybe one must believe that someone believes there is a God in order to believe there isn't one.

 

[Moses_UK]

I believe the answer is both.

Either you're hallucinating or lying. If you are lying, the lie itself should determine the validity of your faith. secondly, if you believe it's the bible then you haven't read the Bible wholely. The bible is full of contradictions and it's a historic book rather than religious.

 

[ppp]

Either you're hallucinating or lying. If you are lying, the lie itself should determine the validity of your faith. secondly, if you believe it's the bible then you haven't read the Bible wholely. The bible is full of contradictions and it's a historic book rather than religious.

Either you're hallucinating or lying. The bible is primarily a religious book. Secondarily, an cultural journal, and finally, only occasionally historical record

 

[Moses_UK]

That's why I don't judge. Who am I to say?
With certain denominations and belief structures that might not hold true, but from my perspective as an outsider?
I'll take their claims at face value, mostly.

Christianity

Either you're hallucinating or lying. The bible is primarily a religious book. Secondarily, an cultural journal, and finally, only occasionally historical record

Ok, let's put this to the test.

1. Quote me any verse which states the new testament is from God and its a religious book (if it's not in the NT then why should you determine or claim it when the NT is not)
2. Quote me any verse that clearly tells us that the early believers in Jesus (who met him) were called Christians

 

[ppp]

1. Quote me any verse which states the new testament is from God and its a religious book (if it's not in the NT then why should you determine or claim it when the NT is not)
2. Quote me any verse that clearly tells us that the early believers in Jesus (who met him) were called Christians

A book stating that is is from a god is not a criteria for determining whether it is a religious book. Hell, even if the book claims that it is from god, that would not make it a religious book. A book is a religious book when it is created or adopted by members of a religion to be their religious book.

 

[Moses_UK]

A book stating that is is from a god is not a criteria for determining whether it is a religious book.
Are you serious or just arguing for the sake of it? if I was to claim that Harry Porter is a religious book and scientifically accurate/historical accurate, would you say that's ok?

Hell, even if the book claims that it is from god, that would not make it a religious book.

why not? that's why it's important to investigate if it's from God.

A book is a religious book when it is created or adopted by members of a religion to be their religious book.

So let there be billions of religions lolll
Does that include Muslims and the Quran? (i bet you're going to argue No right?)

Listen, don't argue without using logic at least

 

[ppp]

Are you serious or just arguing for the sake of it?

You said something incorrect. I corrected you.

if I was to claim that Harry Porter is a religious book and scientifically accurate/historical accurate, would you say that's ok?

What do you mean by ok? You are certainly allowed to say it.
If you were to claim that Harry Potter is a set of religious books, I would not believe you until you could show me a group of people who have formed a religion and use those books as their religious text. I would not believe that it is scientifically or historically accurate until you could demonstrate that the claims made in that book actually occurred.

Whether or not a book is a religious text is not determined by the demonstrable truth of its claims, but by its usage. If the demonstrable truth of its claims were a factor, then there would be no religious texts at all.

why not? that's why it's important to investigate if it's from God.

If no one adopts a text from god as a text for their religion, then it is not a religious text.

So let there be billions of religions lolll

I don't know what that meaning that is supposed to convey.

Does that include Muslims and the Quran? (i bet you're going to argue No right?)

Does what include the Muslims and the Koran? Muslims are a group of people who adopted a text as their religious book. Therefore it is a religious book. The claim that there is a god is not true, but it is still a religious book.

Listen, don't argue without using logic at least

Right back atcha, toots.

 

[Moses_UK]

You said something incorrect. I corrected you.

Exactly my point. As I mentioned in my early messages, that Christianity is a cultural set of practices without factual evidence to back it up nor can Christians claim that Christianity is from God.

What does the term religion mean to you? (from Wikipedia)

Religion is a social-cultural system of designated behaviors and practices, morals, worldviews, texts, sanctified places, prophecies, ethics, or organizations, that relates humanity to supernatural, transcendental, and spiritual elements.

Read the last part "supernatural, transcendental element" Christians claim that Jesus is God which am arguing against.

What do you mean by ok? You are certainly allowed to say it.
If you were to claim that Harry Potter is a set of religious books, I would not believe you until you could show me a group of people who have formed a religion and use those books as their religious text. I would not believe that it is scientifically or historically accurate until you could demonstrate that the claims made in that book actually occurred.

Is the Bible scientifically or Historically accurate?

Whether or not a book is a religious text is not determined by the demonstrable truth of its claims, but by its usage.

Who told you this? have you published a thesis for this? It's your subjective opinion

If the demonstrable truth of its claims were a factor, then there would be no religious texts at all.


If no one adopts a text from god as a text for their religion, then it is not a religious text.

uhhh am confused?


I don't know what that meaning that is supposed to convey.


Does what include the Muslims and the Koran? Muslims are a group of people who adopted a text as their religious book. Therefore it is a religious book. The claim that there is a god is not true, but it is still a religious book.


Right back atcha, toots.

 

[ppp]

If you are going out of your way to make your post difficult to read or respond to, I can only assume that you have nothing worth reading.

 

[Moses_UK]

If you are going out of your way to make your post difficult to read or respond to, I can only assume that you have nothing worth reading.

“And on the Day of Resurrection, you will see those who lied about Allah [with] their faces blackened. Is there not in Hell a residence for the arrogant?” [Surah Al-Zumar 39:60]

“And those who disbelieved will be driven to Hell in groups until, when they reach it, its gates are opened and its keepers will say, “Did there not come to you messengers from yourselves, reciting to you the verses of your Lord and warning you of the meeting of this Day of yours?” They will say, “Yes, but the word of punishment has come into effect upon the disbelievers.” (Surah Al-Zumar 39:71)

"Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses – We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, God is ever Exalted in Might and Wise." (Surah An Nisa 4:56)