What Makes a Christian a Christian?

[Eddi]

First off, what makes a person a Christian?

I'd say a Christian is a person who has chosen to become a Christian...

I'd say that numerous things may contribute to making you turn into a Christian

For example:

• Saying the sinner's prayer
• Accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour
• Getting baptised

But what makes a person a true Christian????

I'd say a person who has done one or more fo the above and then actually practices and observes the religion!

Who change their ways, to live the Christian way

These are the baptismal promises we affirm every week at my COVID zoom church:

I say that making these promises and trying to live up to them makes one a true Christian

 

[Heyo]

First off, what makes a person a Christian?

I'd say a Christian is a person who has chosen to become a Christian...

I'd say that numerous things may contribute to making you turn into a Christian

For example:

• Saying the sinner's prayer
• Accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour
• Getting baptised

But what makes a person a true Christian????

I'd say a person who has done one or more fo the above and then actually practices and observes the religion!

Who change their ways, to live the Christian way

These are the baptismal promises we affirm every week at my COVID zoom church:
View attachment 44871
I say that making these promises and trying to live up to them makes one a true Christian

So, what are your estimates how many Christians and True™ Christians are there on earth?

 

[Eddi]

So, what are your estimates how many Christians and True™ Christians are there on earth?

How many all together?

lol, I have no idea!

And as a percentage of all Christians?

I have no idea either

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

If someone is intent on deceiving someone else about their fellowship in just about any faith, they can. Scientology or the likes may be an exception - where you literally obtain some kind of proof that you are part of their inane "club," or your name has to be "on the list." But otherwise, all someone has to do is say that they are "Christian" and display even a small knowledge of what it is Christians are expected to do (like pray, say "amen" when expected, be seen reading from a Bible, stand and kneel, stand and kneel, talk incessantly about God and how great He is etc.), and there is literally no way to tell a Christian from a non-Christian who is pretending.

With all I have observed, I could so easily pretend to be a Christian in probably any church across the entire United States. It would be so very easy. And no one would ever have cause to question me as long as I was even a little intent on keeping up the ruse.

It isn't like any real-world discipline, requiring real-world knowledge or experience to put actual skills into play. Not like that at all. Therefore there is no viable test.

 

[oldbadger]

I find this a rather strange, but recently reoccurring topic here.

Christianity is not a social club; it’s a faith. And what they [should] have in common is the personal will to follow the example of Jesus Christ, no...?

Humbly
Hermit

I have known many 'Christians' in my lifetime that followed status, class, possessions,. .money, greed, deceit etc.... apart from that they went to church sometimes and thought they were Christian.

 

[nPeace]

We know that a true Scotsman doesn't put sugar on his porridge. So we have a test for true Scotsmanship.

But what is the test for a Christian? Do we have inclusive and exclusive criteria?

According to Wikipedia there are 2.4 billion Christians on earth. What do they have in common?
What do the other 5.4 billion not have?

Would your answer significantly change that number of 2.4 billion?

I like the true Scotsman example.

Last I read the Bible, which is quite recent, it hasn't been changed. No Christian in the Bible has ever said, the Bible is not God's word. It's man's.
Rather, all the Christians said this...
(2 Timothy 3:16, 17) 16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

(2 Peter 1:20, 21) 20 For you know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. 21 For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were moved by holy spirit.

Have you ever read of any of the Christians saying the Torah is myth?
If you have, could you share those scriptures with me, please. No one has ever shown me them.
Did any of Jesus apostles - Christians - say that these accounts are stories, made up?
Stephen for example, was killed for speaking about these things in the ears of the Jews of his day, and proving that they pointed to the Messiah. He referred to the Torah as fact.
If you have a Bible which says Christians thought the Torah was a book of myths, and that the letters of the apostles were man's ideas, as opposed to God's word, then I want to see your Bible.
It would be unique.

Thus comparing the person today, who professes to be Christian, with the early Christians, we can get a clear answer to what makes a person a true Christian.

Although I like your Scotsman example, I think my illustration here will give a more complete picture, as it covers the subject more widely.

Imagine that a salesman came to your door. he claims to represent BCURS, and he wants to sell you a product.
He starts off. "This product is not very good. It probably is not the best buy. It is so full of flaws, you might be better off going to Walmart. Would you like to buy it? It's $99.99."
You probably, like me, would say to yourself. 'What?'
You could not want a better way to undermine any interest in this company, or it's products.

Imagine the manager hears what this salesman is doing. He calls him in his office, and says, "Well done, my man. You deserve a raise. I might even consider a promotion." What?
No The manager calls the guy, in the office to tell him, "Fellow. You're fired! I want you out of this building like yesterday." Applause.

Imagine that this fellow walks around month after month, telling everyone, "I am a salesman. I work for BCURS."
At this point in time you are probably scratching your head, and thinking to yourself, "Somethings wrong with this fellow's head. It's messed up."
Imagine word gets back to the manager about what this fellow is claiming. The manager would be direct. "The man does not work for us. He was fired. I personally saw to that."

Take a step back. in other words, let's step out of the cloud swirling around, and really look at the picture.
What do you see?
Here's what you should see... if the thick cloud has not moved with you, that is.
There are people walking around telling everyone, "I am Christian. I represent the congregation of God." Really?They are neither part of the congregation of God. Nor Christian. They either were never hired, or they got fired.

What? You say. Who are you to judge!
Is that cloud consuming you, or are you seeing clearly?
What test do we have?

(Matthew 7:15-20) 15 “Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.

What are we seeing?
Jesus (the manager) warns of 1) people who would claim to represent his father - and his organization, and 2) you will identify them by their fruit.
...and get this... here is what we are being told. Shut your eyes and repeat in your head what people use as an excuse - misapplying Jesus' words... "Don't judge. Don't judge. Don't judge."
Crazy right.

No. Jesus - the manager - said, "Be on the watch for them. They are dangerous. Identify them by the worthless fruit they produce."
I don't know for others,, but I am going to listen to Jesus... not blind guides. Do you agree with me, or are you in disagreement?

How do I know Stephen was a Christian - a true Christian? Like all Christians ...
1) he preached the Gospel to all, and he did so, unafraid - boldly, and zealously.
2) he stood up for truth... representing the scriptures, even though it was an unpopular message.
3) he followed Jesus teachings, and example.
4) he was part of a group who were united in teachings and love.
See the book of Acts

If anyone can show me that these people being called Christian, are indeed bearing the good fruit, and not the worthless fruit, they have my attention... I am willing to agree with them, honestly.

Right now though, people are pointing to groups of people who are undermining faith in God, and trust in his word the Bible, by claiming the Torah is myth, by claiming that the Bible is man's word, and not God's, by failing to teach the truth from God's word - which Jesus taught, by failing to live up to their claim of love of neighbor. and by being part of the world which Jesus said his followers are no part of.

See
World War I and religion
European wars of religion
Religious war

How can we tell rotten fruit if we don't know the difference between what is good, and what is rotten? That sounds like someone whom has lost all their basic senses... except perhaps hearing.

Good fruit is also seen at Romans 10:13-15 ...
13 For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”

We see then that the criterion is outlined in the same book people use to criticize Christianity, or support it.

 

[Heyo]

I like the true Scotsman example.

Last I read the Bible, which is quite recent, it hasn't been changed. No Christian in the Bible has ever said, the Bible is not God's word. It's man's.
Rather, all the Christians said this...
(2 Timothy 3:16, 17) 16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

(2 Peter 1:20, 21) 20 For you know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. 21 For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were moved by holy spirit.

Have you ever read of any of the Christians saying the Torah is myth?
If you have, could you share those scriptures with me, please. No one has ever shown me them.
Did any of Jesus apostles - Christians - say that these accounts are stories, made up?
Stephen for example, was killed for speaking about these things in the ears of the Jews of his day, and proving that they pointed to the Messiah. He referred to the Torah as fact.
If you have a Bible which says Christians thought the Torah was a book of myths, and that the letters of the apostles were man's ideas, as opposed to God's word, then I want to see your Bible.
It would be unique.

Thus comparing the person today, who professes to be Christian, with the early Christians, we can get a clear answer to what makes a person a true Christian.

Although I like your Scotsman example, I think my illustration here will give a more complete picture, as it covers the subject more widely.

Imagine that a salesman came to your door. he claims to represent BCURS, and he wants to sell you a product.
He starts off. "This product is not very good. It probably is not the best buy. It is so full of flaws, you might be better off going to Walmart. Would you like to buy it? It's $99.99."
You probably, like me, would say to yourself. 'What?'
You could not want a better way to undermine any interest in this company, or it's products.

Imagine the manager hears what this salesman is doing. He calls him in his office, and says, "Well done, my man. You deserve a raise. I might even consider a promotion." What?
No The manager calls the guy, in the office to tell him, "Fellow. You're fired! I want you out of this building like yesterday." Applause.

Imagine that this fellow walks around month after month, telling everyone, "I am a salesman. I work for BCURS."
At this point in time you are probably scratching your head, and thinking to yourself, "Somethings wrong with this fellow's head. It's messed up."
Imagine word gets back to the manager about what this fellow is claiming. The manager would be direct. "The man does not work for us. He was fired. I personally saw to that."

Take a step back. in other words, let's step out of the cloud swirling around, and really look at the picture.
What do you see?
Here's what you should see... if the thick cloud has not moved with you, that is.
There are people walking around telling everyone, "I am Christian. I represent the congregation of God." Really?They are neither part of the congregation of God. Nor Christian. They either were never hired, or they got fired.

What? You say. Who are you to judge!
Is that cloud consuming you, or are you seeing clearly?
What test do we have?

(Matthew 7:15-20) 15 “Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.

What are we seeing?
Jesus (the manager) warns of 1) people who would claim to represent his father - and his organization, and 2) you will identify them by their fruit.
...and get this... here is what we are being told. Shut your eyes and repeat in your head what people use as an excuse - misapplying Jesus' words... "Don't judge. Don't judge. Don't judge."
Crazy right.

No. Jesus - the manager - said, "Be on the watch for them. They are dangerous. Identify them by the worthless fruit they produce."
I don't know for others,, but I am going to listen to Jesus... not blind guides. Do you agree with me, or are you in disagreement?

How do I know Stephen was a Christian - a true Christian? Like all Christians ...
1) he preached the Gospel to all, and he did so, unafraid - boldly, and zealously.
2) he stood up for truth... representing the scriptures, even though it was an unpopular message.
3) he followed Jesus teachings, and example.
4) he was part of a group who were united in teachings and love.
See the book of Acts

If anyone can show me that these people being called Christian, are indeed bearing the good fruit, and not the worthless fruit, they have my attention... I am willing to agree with them, honestly.

Right now though, people are pointing to groups of people who are undermining faith in God, and trust in his word the Bible, by claiming the Torah is myth, by claiming that the Bible is man's word, and not God's, by failing to teach the truth from God's word - which Jesus taught, by failing to live up to their claim of love of neighbor. and by being part of the world which Jesus said his followers are no part of.

See
World War I and religion
European wars of religion
Religious war

How can we tell rotten fruit if we don't know the difference between what is good, and what is rotten? That sounds like someone whom has lost all their basic senses... except perhaps hearing.

Good fruit is also seen at Romans 10:13-15 ...
13 For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”

We see then that the criterion is outlined in the same book people use to criticize Christianity, or support it.

Thanks for your detailed answer. To you also the question, how many Christians do you estimate to be on earth? (Absolute or in relation to the 2.4 billion Wikipedia records.)

 

[firedragon]

We know that a true Scotsman doesn't put sugar on his porridge. So we have a test for true Scotsmanship.

But what is the test for a Christian? Do we have inclusive and exclusive criteria?

According to Wikipedia there are 2.4 billion Christians on earth. What do they have in common?
What do the other 5.4 billion not have?

Would your answer significantly change that number of 2.4 billion?

A Christian is one who calls himself a Christian, unless he is being dishonest..

This 2.4 billion is an identity statement. Its true with any religion.

 

[nPeace]

Thanks for your detailed answer. To you also the question, how many Christians do you estimate to be on earth? (Absolute or in relation to the 2.4 billion Wikipedia records.)

My pleasure.

Going by the criterion, and using the scriptures, which says...
(Matthew 7:13, 14) 13 “Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.

Just imagine in your mind's eye, a narrow gate, and a broad gate; few, and many.
What do you see?

I see something like this...

It is clear that Matthew 7 is referring to religious people, when we look at the context.
(Matthew 7:21-23) 21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

Consider some other scriptures...
(Matthew 24:9-13) 9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name. 10 Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold. 13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved.

(1 John 4:1) Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired statement, but test the inspired statements to see whether they originate with God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

If there are only few, on the right path, i.e. true Christians, we can do the math.
Right now, there are about 8 billion people on earth.
Of those 8 billion, 2.4 billion are labeled Christian.
Many of those 2.4 billion are false.
Few of those are true.
I know the exact number because using the criteria, and testing to determine what identifies a person as a Christian, the number of true Christians on earth today are less than 1% of the 2.4 billion.

I'll like to add though that that does not mean the number won't increase or decrease. I don't know, because the good news of the kingdom is still being preached.
(Matthew 24:14) . . .this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

So by the time the end comes, the number of Christians may greatly increase, or greatly decrease, but numbers do not matter with God, or his people. What matters is quality - the kind of person they are.
(2 Peter 2:5) . . .[God] did not refrain from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a flood upon a world of ungodly people.
If we picture that - 8 people out of an entire world, that amounts to perhaps 0.1% saved.
This could be the last figure for Christian when the end comes.
They will still make up the new world.

 

[Trailblazer]

Heyo said: Thanks for your detailed answer. To you also the question, how many Christians do you estimate to be on earth? (Absolute or in relation to the 2.4 billion Wikipedia records.)

nPeace said: My pleasure.

Going by the criterion, and using the scriptures, which says...
(Matthew 7:13, 14) 13 “Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.

Just imagine in your mind's eye, a narrow gate, and a broad gate; few, and many.

What do you see?

I see something like this...

It is clear that Matthew 7 is referring to religious people, when we look at the context.

(Matthew 7:21-23) 21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

Consider some other scriptures...
(Matthew 24:9-13) 9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name. 10 Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold. 13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved.

(1 John 4:1) Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired statement, but test the inspired statements to see whether they originate with God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

If there are only few, on the right path, i.e. true Christians, we can do the math.
Right now, there are about 8 billion people on earth.
Of those 8 billion, 2.4 billion are labeled Christian.
Many of those 2.4 billion are false.
Few of those are true.
I know the exact number because using the criteria, and testing to determine what identifies a person as a Christian, the number of true Christians on earth today are less than 1% of the 2.4 billion.

The hundred million dollar question is this: Who do you think you are to be determining what a true Christian is?

Who gave you the authority to judge other people? Certainly Jesus did not give you that authority:

Matthew 7:1-5 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

I have a very different interpretation of those verses.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

It says that few find the small gate and the narrow road that leads to life.
But 2.4 billion people have found Jesus because that is how many Christians there are in the world.

I believe that those verses applied to Christians of 2,000 years ago when few had found Jesus but those verses are do not apply to Christians of today. Given 29% of people in the world are Christians many have entered through that gate so it must be a wide gate and a broad road, not the narrow gate that few find.

In short, the narrow gate was Christianity thousands of years ago when Jesus uttered those words, because few had found it Jesus, but Christianity is no longer the narrow gate because Christians are not few anymore.

Christianity is the world's most practiced religion in 2019, and experts estimate that it will remain as the largest religion in the world for many years to come. Mar 21, 2020

Largest Religions in the World (2020) - Swedish Nomad

I believe that whenever a new Messenger of God appears, He is the narrow gate by which we can attain eternal life.

I believe that in every new age, the religion at the narrow gate is the new religion God wants us to find and follow, because it has the message and the teachings and laws that are pertinent to the present age.

I believe that in this new age, the narrow gate is the Baha’i Faith and it is narrow because only a few people recognize God’s new religion in the beginning. That is why the Baha’i Faith is still relatively small.

The religion at the narrow gate is the gate that leads to eternal life. But it is not that easy for most people to find this gate because most people are steeped in religious tradition or attached to what they already believe. If they do not have a religion, most people are suspicious of the new religion and the new messenger. If they are atheists they do not like the idea of Messengers of God or they think they are all phonies.

Jesus told us to enter through the narrow gate, the gate that leads to eternal life, and He said few people would find that gate...

It is narrow, so it is difficult to get through... It is difficult to get through because one has to be willing to give up all their preconceived ideas, have an open mind, and think for themselves. Most people do not normally embark upon such a journey. They go through the wide gate, the easy one to get through – their own religious tradition or their own preconceived ideas about God or no god. They follow that broad road that is easiest for them to travel. That is human nature.

 

[thomas t]

And if it isn't, when do you kick someone out?

Speaking from my experience in rather liberal evangelical churches, you more or less never get kicked out. They always try to have you in.
Sometimes people in these churches even stop believing. Yet they still go there for enyoing their social contacts. Of course they won't get kicked out.

 

[Clara Tea]

Awed by the enormity of space, the complexity of life, and birth, Christians believe that someone or some thing created all this, or at least had a hand in guiding its creation. Pope John Paul II wrote that he accepts evolution (based on DNA proof), but he feels that the hand of God could still have guided it.

Some Christians have much lower standards of proof. I walked with a Christian lad, when I was a lad, and we climbed a small pile of rocks, when he prayed to God for a sign that God exists. He found a rock on the pile of rocks and claimed that it was a sign from God that God exists.

Still other Christians talk to God, and they go to church writhe on the floor and talk in tongues (non-believers call this babbling incoherently), but believers believe that this is proof of God's existence.

Personally, I believe in ESP and predictions of the future (like Revelation in the bible correctly predicted that two demons from hell would lead the most powerful nation in the world to attack and occupy Babylon, Iraq). Since it is possible that information could be stored and retrieved from the space around us, it stands to reason that it is at least possible that an entity can live in that information storage (it would be like a brain).

I believe in ESP because of the predictions made by my very powerful psychic friends who correctly predicted world events and important events in my own life.

 

[nPeace]

The hundred million dollar question is this: Who do you think you are to be determining what a true Christian is?

You don't know what a true Christian is? That's sad.

Who gave you the authority to judge other people? Certainly Jesus did not give you that authority:

We make judgement everyday. It is important if we are to make wise decisions.
For example, a manager has to judge the character he is hiring, based on the interview carried out, otherwise he may as well just say... take any bum, thief, and arsonist, and give them the job.

Especially in the case of our physical, and spiritual lives, we must be sure to judge with righteous judgment. John 7:24.
Jesus said we need to know who are the ravenous wolves in sheep clothing. If we can't make a proper judgment in this area, we have ourselves to blame, when we fall victim to false religious teachings.
Then failing to correct that, will result in a sad end, for us. Matthew 7:23.

This is not called judging other people, is it.
It is called identifying what is, and what isn't.
Like identifying weed from wheat. You are not judging the weeds, but simply identifying them.
Calling a cat a cat, or a dog a dog, is not judging, but if you want to call it judging... certainly that is your prerogative.

By the way, it is the word of God that judges.
So Christians use the word of God, and whatever it judges, we agree with it 1000%.
So for example, when it says, fornication, adultery, homosexuality, etc. denies one entering the kingdom of God, we say that too.
When it says, people have a zeal for God, but not according to accurate knowledge, we agree, and that's what we say too.
We agree with what the Bible says. Is that judging?
Now be careful... Don't judge me.

According to Jesus ...(Luke 12:54-57) 54 Then he also said to the crowds: “When you see a cloud rising in the west, at once you say, ‘A storm is coming,’ and it happens. 55 And when you see that a south wind is blowing, you say, ‘There will be a heat wave,’ and it occurs. 56 Hypocrites, you know how to examine the appearance of earth and sky, but why do you not know how to examine this particular time? 57 Why do you not judge also for yourselves what is righteous?

Matthew 7:1-5 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

I have a very different interpretation of those verses.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

It says that few find the small gate and the narrow road that leads to life.
But 2.4 billion people have found Jesus because that is how many Christians there are in the world.

I believe that those verses applied to Christians of 2,000 years ago when few had found Jesus but those verses are do not apply to Christians of today. Given 29% of people in the world are Christians many have entered through that gate so it must be a wide gate and a broad road, not the narrow gate that few find.

In short, the narrow gate was Christianity thousands of years ago when Jesus uttered those words, because few had found it Jesus, but Christianity is no longer the narrow gate because Christians are not few anymore.

Christianity is the world's most practiced religion in 2019, and experts estimate that it will remain as the largest religion in the world for many years to come. Mar 21, 2020

Largest Religions in the World (2020) - Swedish Nomad

I believe that whenever a new Messenger of God appears, He is the narrow gate by which we can attain eternal life.

I believe that in every new age, the religion at the narrow gate is the new religion God wants us to find and follow, because it has the message and the teachings and laws that are pertinent to the present age.

I believe that in this new age, the narrow gate is the Baha’i Faith and it is narrow because only a few people recognize God’s new religion in the beginning. That is why the Baha’i Faith is still relatively small.

The religion at the narrow gate is the gate that leads to eternal life. But it is not that easy for most people to find this gate because most people are steeped in religious tradition or attached to what they already believe. If they do not have a religion, most people are suspicious of the new religion and the new messenger. If they are atheists they do not like the idea of Messengers of God or they think they are all phonies.

Jesus told us to enter through the narrow gate, the gate that leads to eternal life, and He said few people would find that gate...

It is narrow, so it is difficult to get through... It is difficult to get through because one has to be willing to give up all their preconceived ideas, have an open mind, and think for themselves. Most people do not normally embark upon such a journey. They go through the wide gate, the easy one to get through – their own religious tradition or their own preconceived ideas about God or no god. They follow that broad road that is easiest for them to travel. That is human nature.

You are free to interpret things, however you want, and in any way you want. I leave you to the judge.

 

[Trailblazer]

You don't know what a true Christian is? That's sad.

I would never pretend to know because I believe that only God knows. Also, only God knows what anyone’s end will be.

One reason why we should never judge anyone is because a sinner can change and attain the essence of faith and a devout believer can fall from grace at any time.

“He should forgive the sinful, and never despise his low estate, for none knoweth what his own end shall be. How often hath a sinner attained, at the hour of death, to the essence of faith, and, quaffing the immortal draught, hath taken his flight unto the Concourse on high! And how often hath a devout believer, at the hour of his soul’s ascension, been so changed as to fall into the nethermost fire!” Tablet of the True Seeker, p. 266

We make judgement everyday. It is important if we are to make wise decisions.
For example, a manager has to judge the character he is hiring, based on the interview carried out, otherwise he may as well just say... take any bum, thief, and arsonist, and give them the job.

Especially in the case of our physical, and spiritual lives, we must be sure to judge with righteous judgment. John 7:24.
Jesus said we need to know who are the ravenous wolves in sheep clothing. If we can't make a proper judgment in this area, we have ourselves to blame, when we fall victim to false religious teachings.
Then failing to correct that, will result in a sad end, for us. Matthew 7:23.

A manager needs to judge a person if he is considering hiring someone, but we have no need to judge other people unless they affect us in some way.

This is not called judging other people, is it.
It is called identifying what is, and what isn't.
Like identifying weed from wheat. You are not judging the weeds, but simply identifying them.
Calling a cat a cat, or a dog a dog, is not judging, but if you want to call it judging... certainly that is your prerogative.

That is not the same. We can see that a cat is a cat and a dog is a dog, but we cannot see the thoughts and feelings and motives of another person. We might be able to judge an individual person based upon their behavior, but I think it is wrong to judge entire groups of people and say they are not really Christians… What is that based upon?

By the way, it is the word of God that judges.
So Christians use the word of God, and whatever it judges, we agree with it 1000%.
So for example, when it says, fornication, adultery, homosexuality, etc. denies one entering the kingdom of God, we say that too.
When it says, people have a zeal for God, but not according to accurate knowledge, we agree, and that's what we say too.
We agree with what the Bible says. Is that judging?
Now be careful... Don't judge me.

Now you are talking about certain behaviors that are against the laws of God. I believe the behaviors are wrong, but I do not believe it is my place to judge other people. Only God should judge, and He will. That is not our job. It is clear to me that is what Jesus was saying in Matthew 7:1-5.

I have to wonder what people’s motives are for judging other people, and I believe that it is usually to elevate oneself above others. I can think of no other reason, UNLESS someone actually was unjust or treated you unfairly or cruelly. But to judge entire groups of people, I believe that is wrong, even of I sometimes do it, as in the case of Trumpsters.

 

[paarsurrey]

We know that a true Scotsman doesn't put sugar on his porridge. So we have a test for true Scotsmanship.

But what is the test for a Christian? Do we have inclusive and exclusive criteria?

According to Wikipedia there are 2.4 billion Christians on earth. What do they have in common?
What do the other 5.4 billion not have?

Would your answer significantly change that number of 2.4 billion?

Here is a litmus test of a Christian as I understand:

1. There is not a single Christian, in my knowledge, who does not believe that Jesus died a cursed death on Cross for the sinful Christians;
2. later as per the Christian faith Jesus got resurrected to life from the dead,
3. and hence he was God and he sat on the right hand of God, assuming all-power.

This is, to me, the superstitious building blocks of Christian faith which the Christians have been made to believe by Paul in Rome.

Jesus and Mary believed nothing of the above as I understand.
Right, please?

Regards
__________________
[3:56]
اِذۡ قَالَ اللّٰہُ یٰعِیۡسٰۤی اِنِّیۡ مُتَوَفِّیۡکَ وَ رَافِعُکَ اِلَیَّ وَ مُطَہِّرُکَ مِنَ الَّذِیۡنَ کَفَرُوۡا وَ جَاعِلُ الَّذِیۡنَ اتَّبَعُوۡکَ فَوۡقَ الَّذِیۡنَ کَفَرُوۡۤا اِلٰی یَوۡمِ الۡقِیٰمَۃِ ۚ ثُمَّ اِلَیَّ مَرۡجِعُکُمۡ فَاَحۡکُمُ بَیۡنَکُمۡ فِیۡمَا کُنۡتُمۡ فِیۡہِ تَخۡتَلِفُوۡنَ ﴿۵۶﴾
When Allah said, ‘O Jesus, I will cause thee to die a natural death and will exalt thee to Myself, and will clear thee from the charges of those who disbelieve, and will place those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 3: Aal-e-`Imran

 

[nPeace]

I would never pretend to know because I believe that only God knows. Also, only God knows what anyone’s end will be.

One reason why we should never judge anyone is because a sinner can change and attain the essence of faith and a devout believer can fall from grace at any time.

“He should forgive the sinful, and never despise his low estate, for none knoweth what his own end shall be. How often hath a sinner attained, at the hour of death, to the essence of faith, and, quaffing the immortal draught, hath taken his flight unto the Concourse on high! And how often hath a devout believer, at the hour of his soul’s ascension, been so changed as to fall into the nethermost fire!” Tablet of the True Seeker, p. 266

A manager needs to judge a person if he is considering hiring someone, but we have no need to judge other people unless they affect us in some way.

That is not the same. We can see that a cat is a cat and a dog is a dog, but we cannot see the thoughts and feelings and motives of another person. We might be able to judge an individual person based upon their behavior, but I think it is wrong to judge entire groups of people and say they are not really Christians… What is that based upon?

Now you are talking about certain behaviors that are against the laws of God. I believe the behaviors are wrong, but I do not believe it is my place to judge other people. Only God should judge, and He will. That is not our job. It is clear to me that is what Jesus was saying in Matthew 7:1-5.

I have to wonder what people’s motives are for judging other people, and I believe that it is usually to elevate oneself above others. I can think of no other reason, UNLESS someone actually was unjust or treated you unfairly or cruelly. But to judge entire groups of people, I believe that is wrong, even of I sometimes do it, as in the case of Trumpsters.

Is there a duck in your back yard.
I don't know, because I can't judge if it's a duck or a cat.

Is this a semantics problem, or an interpretation problem?
What is a Christian?

 

[Trailblazer]

Here is a litmus test of a Christian as I understand:

1. There is not a single Christian, in my knowledge, who does not believe that Jesus died a cursed death on Cross for the sinful Christians;
2. later as per the Christian faith Jesus got resurrected to life from the dead,
3. and hence he was God and he sat on the right hand of God, assuming all-power.

Not all Christians believe all of #s1-3 above, although most all Christians believe #1.
I do not believe that #s1-3 is the litmus test of a true Christian.

This is, to me, the superstitious building blocks of Christian faith which the Christians have been made to believe by Paul in Rome.

Jesus and Mary believed nothing of the above as I understand.
Right, please?

I agree that these are the superstitious building blocks of Christian faith which the Christians have been made to believe by Paul in Rome and that Jesus and Mary believed nothing of the above.

How Paul changed the course of Christianity

 

[Trailblazer]

Is there a duck in your back yard.
I don't know, because I can't judge if it's a duck or a cat.

Is this a semantics problem, or an interpretation problem?
What is a Christian?

A Christian is someone who believes in Jesus and that Jesus is the only way to know God.

 

[nPeace]

A Christian is someone who believes in Jesus and that Jesus is the only way to know God.

Your definition comes from where... secular, or biblical source?

 

[Trailblazer]

Your definition comes from where... secular, or biblical source?

Neither. It is my own definition.