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What Makes a Christian a Christian?

pearl

Well-Known Member
ON BEING A CHRISTIAN
Twenty Propositions


(By Hans Kung, "The Christian Challenge", pages 313-316, 1979)

A. Who is a Christian?

No one is a Christian simply because he or she tries to live in a human or in a social or even in a religious way. That person alone is a Christian who tries to live his or her human, social, and religious life in the light of Jesus Christ.

The distinctive Christian reality is Jesus Christ himself.

Being a Christian means: By following Jesus Christ, the human being in the world of today can truly humanly love, act, suffer, and die, in happiness and unhappiness, life and death, sustained by God and helpful to men.

B. Who is Christ?

The Christ is no other than the historical Jesus of Nazareth. Neither priest nor political revolutionary, neither ascetic monk nor devout moralist, he is provocative on all sides.

Jesus did not proclaim any theological theory or any new law, nor did he proclaim himself. He proclaimed the kingdom of God: God’s cause (=God’s will), which will prevail and which is identical with man’s cause (=man’s well-being).

For the sake of men’s well-being Jesus effectively relativized sacred institutions, law, and cult.

Jesus thus asserted a claim to be advocate of God and men. He provoked a final decision: not for a particular title, a dogma, or law but for his good news. But in this way, too, the question of his person was indirectly raised: heretical teacher, false prophet, blasphemer, seducer of the people or what?

In the last resort the conflict centers on God. Jesus does not invoke a new God. He invokes the God of Israel understood in a new way, as Father of the abandoned, whom he addresses quite personally as his Father.

Jesus’ violent end was the logical consequence of this approach of his to God and man. His violent passion was the reaction of the guardians of the law, justice, and morality to his nonviolent action: the crucifixion becomes the fulfillment of the curse of the law; Jesus becomes the representative of lawbreakers, of sinners. He dies forsaken by both men and God.

Jesus’ death, however, was not the end of everything. The faith of his community is: The Crucified is living forever with God, as our hope. Resurrection does not mean either a return to life in space and time or a continuation of life in space and time but the assumption into that incomprehensible and comprehensive last and first reality which we call God.

The resurrection faith, therefore, is not an appendage but a radicalizing of faith in God: of faith in God the Creator.

Without faith in the risen Christ, faith in the crucified Jesus lacks confirmation and authorization. Without faith in the cross, faith in the risen Christ lacks its distinctive character and decisiveness. The ultimate distinctive feature of Christianity is Jesus Christ as the Crucified.

The emergence of the Church can be explained only in the light of faith in Jesus raised to life: the Church of Jesus Christ as the community of those who have committed themselves to the cause of Jesus Christ and bear witness to it as hope for all men.

The essential distinction between "Catholic" and "Protestant" today no longer lies in particular doctrinal differences but in the diversity of basic attitudes which have developed since the Reformation but which can now be overcome in their one-sidedness and integrated into a true ecumenicity.

The ecumenical basis of all Christian churches is the biblical profession of faith in Jesus as the Christ, as the criterion for man’s relations with God and with his fellow men. This profession of faith must be freshly translated for each new age.

C. Who acts as a Christian?

The distinctive feature of Christian action, therefore, is the following of Christ. This Jesus Christ is in person the living, archetypal embodiment of his case: embodiment of a new attitude to life and a new way of life. As a concrete, historical person, Jesus Christ possesses an impressiveness, audibility, and realizability which is missing in an eternal idea, an abstract principle, a universal norm, a conceptual system.

Jesus then means for modern man a basic model of a view of life and practice of life to be realized in many ways. Both positively and negatively he is in person invitation ("you may"), appeal ("you should"), challenge ("you can"), for the individual and society. He makes possible in the concrete a new basic orientation and basic attitude, new motivations, dispositions, projects, a new background of meaning and a new objective.

For the Church, too, Jesus must remain the authoritative standard in all things. The Church is credible only when it follows in his way as a provisional, serving, guilty, determined Church. At all times practical consequences must be drawn from this for constant internal church reform and for ecumenical understanding.

It is particularly in coping with the negative side of life that Christian faith and non-Christian humanisms have to face their acid test. For the Christian the only appropriate way to cope with the negative is in the light of the cross. Following the cross does not mean cultic adoration, mystical absorption, or ethical imitation. It means practice in a variety of ways in accordance with the cross of Jesus, in which a person freely perceives and attempts to follow his own way of life and suffering.

Yet, despite all demands for action, looking to the crucified Jesus, the ultimately important thing for man will not be his achievements (justification by works), but his absolute trust in God, both in good and in evil, and thus in an ultimate meaning to life (justification by faith).
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
If they are not based on scripture. Christmas the subject of the post, is not found in the Bible of the Christian faith.
Just because something is not in the Bible doesn't necessarily make it worldly. If the idea behind something is to seek God, or thank God, or similar, it is not worldly, even if people invented it on their own at 3AM in the morning.
 

capumetu

Active Member
So, celebrating Jesus' birth is not found in the Bible? Maybe reread the Gospels.

No sir. The truth of the matter is there is not one mention of any of God's people celebrating a birthday. There are only 2 recorded birthday celebrations found in the Bible, both by pagan rulers. You may remember the second one as it was quite famous, John the baptist died at that celebration.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
We know that a true Scotsman doesn't put sugar on his porridge. So we have a test for true Scotsmanship.

But what is the test for a Christian? Do we have inclusive and exclusive criteria?
Here are mine:

A person is a Christian if they:

- identify as Christian, and
- are accepted as a Christian by other Christians. (Edit: and I don't mean "other Christians" as in "all Christians," but as in "some community of Christians")

I recognize that this is a bit of a circular definition, but this is how religions are defined in practice, IMO.

According to Wikipedia there are 2.4 billion Christians on earth. What do they have in common?
What do the other 5.4 billion not have?
The vast majority of them don't identify as Christian.

Would your answer significantly change that number of 2.4 billion?
No, because I'm pretty sure that my definition is implicitly behind that 2.4 billion figure.
 
Last edited:

Muffled

Jesus in me
No sir. The truth of the matter is there is not one mention of any of God's people celebrating a birthday. There are only 2 recorded birthday celebrations found in the Bible, both by pagan rulers. You may remember the second one as it was quite famous, John the baptist died at that celebration.

I like celebrating everything about God and I don't understand why people think that is bad. Maybe the Grinch is a JW?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
No sir. The truth of the matter is there is not one mention of any of God's people celebrating a birthday.
Seems that you forgot these two narratives:
Matthew 2[1]Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, saying,
[2] "Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the East, and have come to worship him."
[3] When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him;
[4] and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born.
[5] They told him, "In Bethlehem of Judea; for so it is written by the prophet:
[6] `And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for from you shall come a ruler
who will govern my people Israel.'"
[7]Then Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star appeared;
[8] and he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, "Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him bring me word, that I too may come and worship him."

[9] When they had heard the king they went their way; and lo, the star which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came to rest over the place where the child was.
[10] When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy;
[11] and going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.
[12] And being warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they departed to their own country by another way.

and

Luke 2[8]And in that region there were shepherds out in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
[9] And an angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were filled with fear.
[10] And the angel said to them, "Be not afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of a great joy which will come to all the people;
[11] for to you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
[12] And this will be a sign for you: you will find a babe wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger."
[13] And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying,
[14] "Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace among men with whom he is pleased!"
[15]When the angels went away from them into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, "Let us go over to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has made known to us."
[16] And they went with haste, and found Mary and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.
[17] And when they saw it they made known the saying which had been told them concerning this child;
[18] and all who heard it wondered at what the shepherds told them.
[19] But Mary kept all these things, pondering them in her heart.
[20] And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen, as it had been told them.


Paying respect for Jesus' birth and life is what Christmas is based on, and I would suggest there's nothing intrinsically wrong about doing this in spite what your Governing Body tells you. Much like the magi and the shepherd's celebrated it a bit differently, in today's world there are also some differences with their traditions.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
IMO, it's quite simple: two commandments, which are a belief & love of God and the love of our neighbor, with the latter word used in the utmost broadest context.

Frankly, not much.

I'm more interested in what they have.

Not at all likely.

The above are obviously short "answers", so I can expand on them if there are questions.
There are plenty of Muslims, Sikhs, Jews, etc., who love God and love their neighbour. Do you think this makes them Christian?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
There are plenty of Muslims, Sikhs, Jews, etc., who love God and love their neighbour. Do you think this makes them Christian?
No, but neither do I believe they must become Christian as I do tend to believe there are "many paths to God". Matter of fact, I have to believe that there are undoubtedly some atheists and agnostics that are more loving than some Christians or Muslim or Jews... based on some of the behaviors we've seen.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
No, but neither do I believe they must become Christian as I do tend to believe there are "many paths to God".
But you said that those were the test for whether someone is a Christian.

Matter of fact, I have to believe that there are undoubtedly some atheists and agnostics that are more loving than some Christians or Muslim or Jews... based on some of the behaviors we've seen.
Sure, but I see the question of whether someone is loving and the question of whether they're Christian (or Muslim, or Jewish) as independent from each other.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
But you said that those were the test for whether someone is a Christian.
I think you may be thinking of what someone else may have posted, unless you're taking out of context that I have posted that Christians must reflect Jesus' Two Commandments: the love of God and the love of neighbor, which also can also be found in pretty much all religions.

Sure, but I see the question of whether someone is loving and the question of whether they're Christian (or Muslim, or Jewish) as independent from each other.
As I do, as Christianity certainly does not have a monopoly on this.
 

lukethethird

unknown member
We know that a true Scotsman doesn't put sugar on his porridge. So we have a test for true Scotsmanship.

But what is the test for a Christian? Do we have inclusive and exclusive criteria?

According to Wikipedia there are 2.4 billion Christians on earth. What do they have in common?
What do the other 5.4 billion not have?

Would your answer significantly change that number of 2.4 billion?
I would think getting drunk on the blood of Jesus is a prerequisite.
 

capumetu

Active Member
Just because something is not in the Bible doesn't necessarily make it worldly. If the idea behind something is to seek God, or thank God, or similar, it is not worldly, even if people invented it on their own at 3AM in the morning.


If it is not Scriptural, then it is not originating from Scripture, therefore it originated with what the Bible calls the world.
 

capumetu

Active Member
Seems that you forgot these two narratives:
Matthew 2[1]Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, saying,
[2] "Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the East, and have come to worship him."
[3] When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him;
[4] and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born.
[5] They told him, "In Bethlehem of Judea; for so it is written by the prophet:
[6] `And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for from you shall come a ruler
who will govern my people Israel.'"
[7]Then Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star appeared;
[8] and he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, "Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him bring me word, that I too may come and worship him."
[9] When they had heard the king they went their way; and lo, the star which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came to rest over the place where the child was.
[10] When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy;
[11] and going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.
[12] And being warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they departed to their own country by another way.


and

Luke 2[8]And in that region there were shepherds out in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
[9] And an angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were filled with fear.
[10] And the angel said to them, "Be not afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of a great joy which will come to all the people;
[11] for to you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
[12] And this will be a sign for you: you will find a babe wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger."
[13] And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying,
[14] "Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace among men with whom he is pleased!"
[15]When the angels went away from them into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, "Let us go over to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has made known to us."
[16] And they went with haste, and found Mary and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.
[17] And when they saw it they made known the saying which had been told them concerning this child;
[18] and all who heard it wondered at what the shepherds told them.
[19] But Mary kept all these things, pondering them in her heart.
[20] And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen, as it had been told them.


Paying respect for Jesus' birth and life is what Christmas is based on, and I would suggest there's nothing intrinsically wrong about doing this in spite what your Governing Body tells you. Much like the magi and the shepherd's celebrated it a bit differently, in today's world there are also some differences with their traditions.


You saw it for yourself sir, there was no celebration from God's people on the birth of Jesus. However, Jehovah did see to it that Jesus birth was made known to some of His people who came and visited them. It was not continued on, therefore we Christians do not participate in that worldly holy day.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
You saw it for yourself sir, there was no celebration from God's people on the birth of Jesus.
That was a celebration of those who came to understand what was happening, so why can't you see that? You claim to believe in the Bible, but all you've done is to make it perfectly clear that the reality is that you only believe in what your Governing Body tells you to believe.

When we celebrate Christmas in Catholicism, we pray as the magi did, and it's a joyous occasion like with both them and the shepherds! Why is this so difficult for you to understand? The magi brought presents, which is what most of us Catholics do with our children. With us, Christmas is a joyous celebration of Jesus' birth, whenever that was, and yet you seem not to appreciate our joy over Christ's coming. So sad, capumetu-- so utterly sad for you to do such a thing.
 
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