What Makes a Hindu a Hindu?

[Vinayaka]

Firstly, the idea that a nomadic people could be really advanced is a bit out there. The search for food is so demanding that there is little free time to develop culture of any kind. Culture, arts, religion, etc. has generally developed with agriculture, or in the very least a reliable food source, allowing for a sedentary and stable population. This happens along rivers, and not with nomads.

Here are some other scientific refutes:
- Rg Veda 1.51.14-15cites winter solstice when the sun rises in Revati nakshatra, which is only possible at 6000 BCE
- In Gujarat, scientists did carbon dating on horse bones, dating at 2400 BC, almost 1000 years before the supposed invasion.
- NASA satellite imagery confirms the Saraswati as real, not myth
-Kunal, a new archeological dig in Haryana, supports writing and silver craftsmanship at 7000 BCE

I'm sure there is more. I urge readers to dig deeper, and be wary of any atheist agendas in the Hindu DIR. Atheists would be better off posting in the atheist subforum.

 

[Kalidas]

namaskaram Prabhu ji's :namaste




dharma is both truth and duty , it is also religion , ..ultimatly dharma is truth , but symultaniously it is duty in that it is our responcibility to act in accordance with that universal truth which is 'Rta' .....Rta is the true nature ,that under lays all phenomena , it is the natural order which governs the universe and all within it .

so our dharma is to act in accordance with that truth , and not go against its order , ... so yes any one can follow it through their own inate inteligence , any one who has a sence of ethics or morality , a christian who says love thy brother as thy self , will be fullfilling his dharma by doing so , but to be in accordance with dharma this means him also respecting all as ones brother(not just felow christians) and respecting ones distant brothers respecting their right to practice their love of god in their own way allowing them to fullfill their own dharma .
unfortunately there are some things practiced by other religions which I do not think are in accordance with Rta so simply following ones religion (doing ones perceived duty) is not nececarily in accordance with dharma as in Law . we need to carefully examine this universal law . therefore dharma as in religion , or the following of religious principles , the yamas and niyamas of hinduism , the ten comandments of chrisrtianity , the eight fold path of buddhism etc...that are there to guide us towards an understanding of that universal truth , that universal order .

likewise we should respect others which ever faith or understanding , whether they are thist or non theist , poly or mono theistic ....providing that their actions are not adharmic

Hmmm ......as for Aisan invasion , or asian migration theories ....they are just that ..'Theories' ... why are prople fighting with their brothers over it ???

I would like to know where in the yamas and niyamas it says that we must establish the facts of history ???

I have no problem agreeing to this. Dharma is more than truth but the will to act properly based on knowing the truth. It is responsibilty for your actions, I also think it is seeking out the truth. Your actions are limited on the amount of knowledge yoi have of a situation. The more you know the better you will be in making a good choice.

A good example was one time someone told me my favorite beer had beef as an ingredient in it. I could have ignored it said it was a lie abd went on (ignorance is bliss you know). I checkes it out though because I felt an obligation to find the truth, good thing it was all a rumor. The point is one CAN ignore information and new knowledge for the sake of ignorant bliss, but that is not proper either.

 

[Kalidas]

Wow. Look what happens when you sleep. Aren't you two in the same city? Maybe you could meet for tea somewhere.

As far as AIT goes, contrary to what Aupmanyav says, it has been debunked by scientists themselves. The proof that most AIT people used was simple a reference to earlier proofs. All you have to do is search on 'Aryan Invasion Myth' and you will find all sorts of papers that debunk it. I was going to make a link list and post it here, but it would take way too much effort when people can do it themselves. For those people actually interested, I would strongly suggest you do just that.

However, other than some fight over who is right and who is wrong, it serves no real spiritual purpose. How does it make a person more or less spiritual, more or less kind, giving, etc. Studying history simply doesn't do that for us.

When observing an argument, personally I try to look deeper. I'm saddened that some folks have been duped by polite language, and also by emotion. The individual who uses bigger words and writes most logically isn't necessarily the one who has the best argument.

In high school debate clubs, people get either side of an argument by a coin toss. They are knowledgeable about either side, and it's the logic and debating tactics that they use. What they actually believe on the topic is hidden.

Aup's links always come from western indologists who have a vested interest in anti-Hindu rhetoric. I don't read that stuff. It's a cancer to the mind, (it will build doubt) and I've already thoroughly studied this distortion of history. There hasn't been much new stuff published in the last 3 or 4 years, as far as I know. But so is emotion a cancer to the mind.

I encourage everyone here, if you actually to take a really close look for yourselves, and not be swayed by logically sounding language, nor by overly emotional rants.

I honestly am unhappy with myself, allowing me to get sucked into an argument that honestly I didn't want to be a part of. As far as this Aryan business, I have no clue and will not pretend like I will.

 

[Vinayaka]

I honestly am unhappy with myself, allowing me to get sucked into an argument that honestly I didn't want to be a part of. As far as this Aryan business, I have no clue and will not pretend like I will.

Totally correct, and admirable. I didn't want to enter the foray either. Have you made it back to the Kali temple yet? Soon, I hope.

 

[Kalidas]

Totally correct, and admirable. I didn't want to enter the foray either. Have you made it back to the Kali temple yet? Soon, I hope.

That's honestly why I put a certain person on ignore I have it hard to contain myself so I am better off ignoring it all together, and now I feel rude lol.

December was impossible work wouldnt allow me to ask days off. I want to try this month. I did find good news though. My friend who told me of Hinduism in the first place has a vehicle now. He also wants to visit the temple and even would give me rides every month. So a constant trip there seems possible. He's actually the ONLY Hindu friend I have in real life, he says I'm pretty closed off where I'm at. Won't lie sometimes it gets lonely lol. So going with him will be awesome and probably do me a lot of good.

 

[ratikala]

jai jai kalidas ji :namaste

I have no problem agreeing to this. Dharma is more than truth but the will to act properly based on knowing the truth. It is responsibilty for your actions, I also think it is seeking out the truth. Your actions are limited on the amount of knowledge you have of a situation. The more you know the better you will be in making a good choice.

this is the reason for the religious aspect , of course at first we canot know which is the right choice of action , so we follow a path , the yamas and niyamas ....

as we follow a strict code or law we slowly purify ourselves by our actions untill eventualy everything becomes clear , ....

 

[Kalidas]

jai jai kalidas ji :namaste



this is the reason for the religious aspect , of course at first we canot know which is the right choice of action , so we follow a path , the yamas and niyamas ....

as we follow a strict code or law we slowly purify ourselves by our actions untill eventualy everything becomes clear , ....

It reminds me of this time a Hindu friend of mine got in a minor argument with an atheist. friend of his. He was lumping all religious people together thinking they were all the same, pretty much in his head Christianity was the epitome of religion and how religious people act. So I did my best to show the difference between a religion based in Dogma and one based on Dharma. In Dogma you obey some form of a messiah and or. Holy book without question. You are spoon fed "knowledge" and asked to act in very specific ways and it is bad to question anything. In Dogma though I am my own messiah, the only one responsible for my soul is myself. The greatest Holy book is the one in my heart. Sure we read scriptures for spiritual knowledge we do not yet have, but how we live our life is our responsibility. Its freeing to think this way BUT a little scary, at the end.of the day you only have yourself to blame for the consequences you revieve being them for.ill or good.

 

[Kalidas]

Dear HK I actually want to apologise to you. I let my anger over what you had said get the better of me. I now have you unblocked. I really hope you will except my apology. I understand a little of where you are.coming from you only want what we all here want, to promote the growth of Hindu Dharma. I totally. understand your frustrations with the West honestly I don't like being here half the time. I hope that you understand (even if you disagree) I am doing my best to assimilate into this way of life as best I can. Sometimes I succed other times I fail. I will do better in the future to look past things that may anger me since I know I can actually learn from you at times. Lets be honest here you have been at this a lot.longer than I. I will never know as much about Hinduism as you do, but I would love to try.

 

[ratikala]

It reminds me of this time a Hindu friend of mine got in a minor argument with an atheist. friend of his. He was lumping all religious people together thinking they were all the same, pretty much in his head Christianity was the epitome of religion and how religious people act. So I did my best to show the difference between a religion based in Dogma and one based on Dharma. In Dogma you obey some form of a messiah and or. Holy book without question. You are spoon fed "knowledge" and asked to act in very specific ways and it is bad to question anything. In Dogma though I am my own messiah, the only one responsible for my soul is myself. The greatest Holy book is the one in my heart. Sure we read scriptures for spiritual knowledge we do not yet have, but how we live our life is our responsibility. Its freeing to think this way BUT a little scary, at the end.of the day you only have yourself to blame for the consequences you revieve being them for.ill or good.

this is where everything comes down to the inturpretation , we need to examine everything very carefully think our actions through , dogma is in ones approach , if one lacks the spirit of inquiry then one runs the risk of becoming dogmatic ....

so we come back to one of my favorites ....'aquired knowledge' V 'experiencial knowledge' , ..thus yes , ...if ''you are spoon fed knowledge'' without enquiring into its place function and aplication , then we will not be able to make it work for our own benifit or for the benifit of anyone around us .

 

[Kalidas]

this is where everything comes down to the inturpretation , we need to examine everything very carefully think our actions through , dogma is in ones approach , if one lacks the spirit of inquiry then one runs the risk of becoming dogmatic ....

so we come back to one of my favorites ....'aquired knowledge' V 'experiencial knowledge' , ..thus yes , ...if ''you are spoon fed knowledge'' without enquiring into its place function and aplication , then we will not be able to make it work for our own benifit or for the benifit of anyone around us .

The.problem I have with dogma isn't how knowledge is acquired but that questioning is frowned upon. I believe to reach the truth one must ask many questions.

 

[ratikala]

The.problem I have with dogma isn't how knowledge is acquired but that questioning is frowned upon. I believe to reach the truth one must ask many questions.

jai jai , ..exactly ...aquired knowledge is simply assumed , taken from someone else without questioning . ....knowledge which is aquired through examination and verification through practice is what I am calling experiencial knowledge ....in other words dont take my word for it examine it put it to the test , ...then as the Dalai lama says ''if you find itto be use full then you may use it'' ....

 

[Aupmanyav]

But I think we always have to be careful with anything at all presented by western indology scholars and their Christian or atheist beliefs, as the oft hidden purpose is to lessen our faith.

I am neither a European, nor a Christian. I am (at least supposedly) a descendant of writer of a RigVedic Verse, clansman of a Vedic commentator in 1,000 BC, and grandson of another passionate Hindu who wrote a 8,000 verse smriti (of course, RF was not kind enough to allow me to post some verses out of them). I am passionately a Hindu though of an atheist advaitist variety.

A great person, who too was a passionate Hindu, who established Ganesha Pooja in Maharashtra, so that now it is one of the most popular festivals in India, who gave India the slogan, 'Independence is my birth-right, and I will not rest till I get it', Hinduism♥Krishna, kindly note that he was a fellow Maharashtrian, and a mentor to Mahatma Gandhi, proposes a theory which makes Aryans immigrants to India, which I follow. I am talking of Lokmanya Pandit Bal Gangadhar Tilak.

Now, do you ascribe ulterior motives to me or to Pandit Bal Gangadhar Tilak? Kindly note that chauvinism is not scholarship.

 

[ShivaFan]

All glories to Lok Manya Pandit Bal Gangadhar Tilak!
JAI PANDIT JI KI JAI.

 

[Contemplative Cat]

A fakir said to me in a song
"Christians are fools,
Moslems are deceitful,
Buddhists chase there tail,
& Hindus Bicker.
While God laughs at them all"

 

[Contemplative Cat]

Mlecca.
You would forsake your human brothers because they are mlecca?
That's sad, only bad Hindus say that dark stuff.
Its like saying the n-word, and infidel at the same time.

If someone dehumanizes someone by calling them "outsider" then they have nothing good to teach, and will probably be reborn as a worm or something similar.

It instantly creates duality, in groups, and outgroups.
It is a dirty idea fit for rejection.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Aup like AIT lovers see the battles between gods described in puranas as a battle between Aryan and Dravidian.

Actually AIT lovers don't have any knowledge of veda or puranas . Indeed they have made a great sin by studying veda.

We hindus should unite and should fight against such attacks of pseudo hindus and Non-hindus.

Harihi Om

Aup never says that Aryans and the indigenous people ever fought. There is no record of that. Indra fought the demons of darkness, Vritra and others, in Aryan Arctic homes when the sun disappeared for two months, and brought back the sun, which was heralded by appearance of Ushas, the thirty sisters.

The only war that Mandala 10 talks about is the Dasarajna War, when the Takshashila/Islamabad/Rawalpindi Aryan king Sudas, son of Divodasa, of the Purus, fought a horde of more than ten tribes. Fortunately for him, Indra helped, and the attackers were washed away in the flood of River Ravi (Parushni).

 

[Vinayaka]

Mlecca.
You would forsake your human brothers because they are mlecca?
That's sad, only bad Hindus say that dark stuff.
Its like saying the n-word, and infidel at the same time.

If someone dehumanizes someone by calling them "outsider" then they have nothing good to teach, and will probably be reborn as a worm or something similar.

It instantly creates duality, in groups, and outgroups.
It is a dirty idea fit for rejection.

Depends on context, tone, and how it is applied. For some it has no more negative meaning than 'foreigners'.

 

[Vinayaka]

The dilution of Hinduism is a serious problem, just as the dilution of ethics is.

In this dilution, it can lose it's mysticism, into more intellectual approaches. Hence the mystical power is lost. The original meaning of jnana has already practically been totally lost

It can take on contradicting beliefs in the 'need' for harmony, which later causes nothing but confusion for people.

It allows adharma to enter, immodesty, meat-eating, booze, promiscuity, and many other detrimental effects to the soul.

So much more ... you can really see it in temples... in some cell-phones, hoodies, food, etc. makes the place seem more like a social club without the booze. Still, in traditional ones, it can remain as it once was.. a sanctified place to commune directly with God.

So yes we need to Protect, Preserve, and Promote.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Mlecca.
You would forsake your human brothers because they are mlecca?
That's sad, only bad Hindus say that dark stuff.
Its like saying the n-word, and infidel at the same time.

If someone dehumanizes someone by calling them "outsider" then they have nothing good to teach, and will probably be reborn as a worm or something similar.

It instantly creates duality, in groups, and outgroups.
It is a dirty idea fit for rejection.

Yes. Since learning what the word 'mleccha' means, I think it's an insulting term on par with the 'n word'. I shall fully agree with you there.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

The dilution of Hinduism is a serious problem, just as the dilution of ethics is.

In this dilution, it can lose it's mysticism, into more intellectual approaches. Hence the mystical power is lost. The original meaning of jnana has already practically been totally lost.

I totally agree with this too. I try and help people find it...I try and show you all what has been lost over time...it's all I can do, my friend. I think that's why I am here.