What makes religious people convienced that god(s) exist?

[Willamena]

but there isn't.

[cue spooky music] but... if there was, would "love" be objective or subjective?

(For the record, to me it's a silly question. so... I myself.)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Nature is an expression of the model working. It's not been tested, because it can't be tested. Nature exists by virtue of our belief in a particular understanding: once we see the model working, this supports our idea, and we become more certain in our belief.

Earlier you said that a God that is a superfluous piece of the model is not a god concept you believe anyone would invest in. Is nature superfluous to the model?

I can't even start trying to figure out how to answer that question without knowing what you mean by "nature".

 

[waitasec]

[cue spooky music] but... if there was, would "love" be objective or subjective?

(For the record, to me it's a silly question. so... I myself.)

ha ha...
i think it would still be subjective.

 

[Willamena]

I can't even start trying to figure out how to answer that question without knowing what you mean by "nature".

Nature. #1

 

[lunakilo]

You are describing what your body went through.

I think I described more than just what my body went through, I think I was describing the experience of the roller coaster ride, or at least that was what I was trying to describe.

A person can say that they stood up, went down the isle, got on their knees, prayed..., etc... Describe what you felt inside during a roller coaster ride or describe what you feel inside about anything and that is how you describe an experience with God. If that isn't enough for you, then I don't think that anything can be done about that.

Problem is no person has described that about an experience with God.

People have said "if's a feeling" or something like that, That is about as informative as describing a roller coster ride by saying "it's fun".

Describe how you feel when you are in love.

I have described the color blue.
I have described what a roller coster ride is like.
If you didn't get my point the first two times I don't think you will get it fi I try this one.
I get that it is hard to describe and the person you try to describe it to will never fully understand, but that doesn't mean that nothing comes across.

 

[Willamena]

ha ha...
i think it would still be subjective.

If there were only one person in the whole universe, would it matter that his feelings were subjective for them to give certainty that whatever is felt about exists?

 

[waitasec]

If there were only one person in the whole universe, would it matter that his feelings were subjective for them to give certainty that whatever is felt about exists?

yes i think so.
and i'll tell you why i think so.

if i am the only person in the universe who feels god loves me, then why am i in pain (as in physical pain)?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Is there a difference?
If I were to feel the precense of a god I think I would be quite convienced that that god actually existed.
I would call that an experience with a god.


It sounds to me like you are repeting 9-10ths_Penguin's argument from post #4 (he just put it better )

No... You haven't read my post well enough if it sounds like that.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Depends on the specifics of the claim. If the claim is of the form "God did 'X'," where 'X' is some event we know did happen, then the null hypothesis would be "God did not do 'X'."

9P/10, would you please suggest a definition of "null hypothesis"?

 

[Willamena]

yes i think so.
and i'll tell you why i think so.

if i am the only person in the universe who feels god loves me, then why am i in pain (as in physical pain)?

Now you've jumped from one foot to the other. You've based a feeling that god doesn't love you on pain.

Is pain subjective?

 

[lunakilo]

because feelings are subjective.
if the question is about a god everyone can experience objectively then basing that conviction on ones feelings is not a good indicator of his existence.

The question in the OP was not about any specific god that everyone can experience objectively. It was about what conviences people that their god(s) exist.

By the way, I get that if a person feels that something is a certain way then that is probably enough to convience that person that way. At least unless somone else can prove otherwise.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

By the way, the OP asks:

What makes religious people convienced that god(s) exist?​

I assume you recognize that not all religious people are convinced.

 

[waitasec]

Now you've jumped from one foot to the other. You've based a feeling that god doesn't love you on pain.

which is why i say as the only person in the universe i could understand god's love subjectively

 

[waitasec]

By the way, the OP asks:

What makes religious people convienced that god(s) exist?​

I assume you recognize that not all religious people are convinced.

i'm trying to wrap my head around this idea...it's not so easy.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Perhaps I'm using the term 'convinced' incorrectly or, at least, differently. I equate being convinced with certitude, and it is beyond me how anyone can be certain about such a thing.

 

[waitasec]

The question in the OP was not about any specific god that everyone can experience objectively. It was about what conviences people that their god(s) exist.

By the way, I get that if a person feels that something is a certain way then that is probably enough to convience that person that way. At least unless somone else can prove otherwise.

i equate exist with objective understanding...

the best way i can explain that is:
X is objective understanding
Y is not.
i feel X...this is a true statement.
i feel X is Y...is a subjective statement
unless Y is backed up by X

does that make sense?

 

[waitasec]

Perhaps I'm using the term 'convinced' incorrectly or, at least, differently. I equate being convinced with certitude, and it is beyond me how anyone can be certain about such a thing.

unless you take ones feelings into consideration...feelings are very powerful
but they can also cloud ones vision.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

unless you take ones feelings into consideration...feelings are very powerful but they can also cloud ones vision.

They can and do, but what does that have to do with my observation that "not all religious people are convinced"?

 

[waitasec]

They can and do, but what does that have to do with my observation that "not all religious people are convinced"?

because i don't understand how one can be convinced of something based on feelings...

perhaps we share the same POV?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

-- scarry --