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What makes religious people convienced that god(s) exist?
- Thread starter lunakilo
- Start date
Man of Faith
Well-Known Member
Have you ever told someone that you love them? If so then you are convinced based on your feelings.
waitasec
Veteran Member
i am convinced i love someone by the way i feel...
but just because i love them doesn't mean i am convinced they love me back...
It's not supposed to mean that...
waitasec
Veteran Member
what do you mean?
what convinces a person that god exists is based on how they feel about god...?
well of course....that is obvious...
if the criterion is ones feelings then heck...i'm convinced i am going to win the next big lottery...
I'm doubt that core beliefs are necessarilly based on feelings but, rather, on something more instinctual.
No, no. The claim that feeling love for god in some way makes God feel love back was not made.what do you mean?
what convinces a person that god exists is based on how they feel about god...?
well of course....that is obvious...
if the criterion is ones feelings then heck...i'm convinced i am going to win the next big lottery...
The discussion about "love" arose as an example of how to distinguish feeling love (the experience) from a description of what it feels like to be in love that would convey to someone else what it is to be in love, and perhaps convince them that "love" exists.
Does love exist?
TheKnight
Guardian of Life
To the OP, the question you ask stems from a situation that shouldn't have happened. Namely, your friend telling you that you'd burn in hell for a lack of belief. This problem is only a problem in light of a person using God as the basis for an action, usually a negative one, with/towards another person.As Tarheeler touched on in the beginning, for some of us God's existence is really a personal thing. It's not something we can explain to others nor is it something we feel the need to explain. Whether or not your believe in God is ultimately up to you.
I believe in God because it is beneficial for me to believe in Him, and until someone presents me with evidence that it more harmful than it is beneficial, there's no reason to change that belief.Like 9-10ths said, we create mental models and they are either verified or shown to be false based on our experiences. For me, my "experiences" of God are emotional ones, and as a scientist, ones that I am more than willing to accept are more probably due to the nature of my brain than to the nature of of reality. But the idea of God and belief in Him has a profoundly positive impact on my life, my way of thinking, and my behavior. Whether or not there is actually a God, while I do believe there is, isn't really relevant.
Moreover, I know many people for whom their belief in God and/or their religion is the impediment to their growth. For this reason, I think such people would be better off without the belief.
Over the past year I've begun to examine why some people believe and some do not. I know why I and other believers such as myself believe, but I am curious as to why those who don't do not. For those of us who do, those within my circle of friends anyways, it is because we've had experiences that those who don't believe would not chalk up to anything divine. For me, and others I know, there is internally a sense of there being some kind of Existence out there resembling God. For many others there isn't. In my opinion if God exists, as I believe He does, and is equally accessible to all, as I believe He is, then if I am correct on those two points everyone should be able to experience what I experience. From my studies that simply isn't the case. From what I've seen over the past year, some people do not and simply cannot believe in God or experience Him the way that I do. For me it means that my theory is incorrect. Either God doesn't exist, or isn't equally accessible. It means that ultimately my theory must change, which it has significantly since I first joined RF nearly 3 years ago.
I see God as being nothing more than a collection of phenomena my brain has interpreted as God because it is emotionally and practically beneficial for me to see it that way. Why? Probably because of how I was raised. Someone else might have the exact same experiences and come away with a completely different, if not opposite, conclusion. That's fine. Neither I nor they will go to hell. In all likelihood we'll both die and end up staying that way.
So why continue believing if I don't believe there actually is a God?
The answer to this is hard for me to explain, but in short I believe because I must. I recognize that "God" is probably something that is limited to me and my existence. This, however, does not weaken my belief. Coming to the conclusion that God probably doesn't exist beyond my brain and my experiences of Him does not change the fact that I still believe that He exists. It doesn't change the fact that everything in my existence and experience and interaction with the world around me leads my brain to conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that He exists. All I've discovered in my study is that my brain is different from others and that the brains of others, given the exact same experiences, would probably make different conclusions.
Ultimately the "truth" is irrelevant. Many people like to believe in the truth for the sake of it being the truth. This is foolish in my opinion. The truth is excellent, however I don't believe the truth value of our opinions and beliefs are relevant beyond their influence of how we behave. Moreover, I hold that when it comes to the behavior of others, to whom I cannot objectively demonstrate God's existence as I see it, it is my responsibility to prove my case and my point via means that we can all see. Realistically, we all live in different worlds. Thus, when it comes to showing one point or another, I believe it is up to us to know what in our world are the things that only we can see and what are the things that others can also see. With that knowledge, we are then obligated to only use what others/everyone can see to prove points and make cases. This is the beauty of the scientific method.
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waitasec
Veteran Member
ah yes i see that...
but as i said before...i am convinced i will win the lottery and therefore i will go into debt because i am convinced of it :woohoo:
the feeling of it most certainly does...
the only way to be convinced of loves existence has to depend on an objective understanding...for me that is.
Well, good luck with that.
So if you are the only person in the universe, love doesn't exist, but if you aren't, it does?
waitasec
Veteran Member
my point exactly....
So if you are the only person in the universe, love doesn't exist, but if you aren't, it does?
depends if i am the kind of person who is convinced i will win the lottery and go into debt or not...
Great post.
Is that a yes or a no?
X = love
In what manner would X be backed up if you were the only person in the universe?
waitasec
Veteran Member
what i am going for is it depends...
there is no way i can answer that question for obvious reasons.
lets define love....maybe that will be more helpful
Defining love with words cannot capture the experience of love.
waitasec
Veteran Member
it can't be if you are the only person in the universe...but then again
we need to define what we mean by love
we can say
X = the sun
and it's backed up by its objective existence
waitasec
Veteran Member
true..
but then what is the point of explaining how love is experienced
So what indicators tell us that "love," which has so many implications, can be interpreted in so many ways, and described by so many words--none of which capture the wholeness of the experience--has an objective existence?
And can't similar indicators point at something like God?
The same point made in expressing any other experience.
Else, we all just sit down and shut up.