What makes religious people convienced that god(s) exist?

[lunakilo]

How could he actually understand what its like to be if he's not?

Are you saying we are capable of experiencing without actually experiencing?

As I tried to explain earlier (http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3024746-post20.html) he will probably not fully understand, but maybe he will get the general picture.

And yes to som extend we are able to 'experiencing' without experincing.
Imagine someone telling you about being chased by a tiger.
Now, personally I have never been chased by a tiger so I have no idea what it is really like to be chased by a tiger. But if the person telling the story tells the story well I might understand some of what it was like. Understand how scared he was and how relieved he felt when he managed to get to safety.
I will have shares in his experience without actually having had the experience he did.

 

[Willamena]

So that's what you meant by "nature" when you said this?

If so, I can't help but wonder why you think "the phenomena of the physical world" can't be tested.

Nevermind.

 

[Willamena]

If you were the only person in the universe objective = subjective.

Right. But that's only because the terms "objective" and "subjective" have come to mean something they shouldn't, but that's another story.

That is:
<love> is objective understanding
Y is not. (but it is since subjective=objective, so this means Y is objective understanding)
i feel <love>...this is a true statement.
i feel <love> is Y...is a objective statement

or something like that

So if you are the only person in the universe why is love relevant?

Because of the other story.

 

[savagewind]

I am convinced God IS because I can't believe mindless energy caused Earth's ecosystem. It is too much interconnected. It is too much the same on this side and that side, on the tallest mountain and the lowest place in the ocean. Does anyone have an answer to why only ONE biological system evolved? Why is everything related? You will say because it all evolved from the same simple life. So why was there only one kind of early simple life?

If I was only mind w/ thinking spirit I would have to agree that my concept of God might be my imagination only. But there are so many things made (Romans 1:20) that cooperate together that it is impossible that I can deny The Deity. So I looked for God and I found HIM in Christ. I don't know God but I am in the process of knowing.

Some people are funny to think that God should make god's self known to every one. Do you know Obama? I don't. Do you know Johnny Depp? (I wish) Do you know the Pope? Nope? So?

 

[lunakilo]

I am convinced God IS because I can't believe mindless energy caused Earth's ecosystem. It is too much interconnected. It is too much the same on this side and that side, on the tallest mountain and the lowest place in the ocean. Does anyone have an answer to why only ONE biological system evolved? Why is everything related? You will say because it all evolved from the same simple life. So why was there only one kind of early simple life?

If I was only mind w/ thinking spirit I would have to agree that my concept of God might be my imagination only. But there are so many things made (Romans 1:20) that cooperate together that it is impossible that I can deny The Deity. So I looked for God and I found HIM in Christ. I don't know God but I am in the process of knowing.

Some people are funny to think that God should make god's self known to every one. Do you know Obama? I don't. Do you know Johnny Depp? (I wish) Do you know the Pope? Nope? So?

So basically you believe in God not because God made himself known to you, but because what you see when you look at the world can only make sense to you if a god exists? That makes sense to me.

You then decides to look for him and found him in Christ you say.
Could you say more about what that means and how you found Christ?

 

[savagewind]

So basically you believe in God not because God made himself known to you, but because what you see when you look at the world can only make sense to you if a god exists? That makes sense to me.

You then decides to look for him and found him in Christ you say.
Could you say more about what that means and how you found Christ?

How I found Christ for real? Or that I was TAUGHT to believe?

I was raised a church Christian.

I tend toward thinking spiritually, not materially. I feel very sorry for people who must struggle daily to stay alive. I do not know how it is possible for anyone who does not have the necessities of life to know Christ. It is not easy, like it would not be easy for me to be in the same room with an idol.

But that is off topic. Sorry!

I wanted to know what Jesus' death meant. Then I met the Jehovah's Witnesses. I came to know the Bible well. I can see that the writers of the Bible are spiritual people who have a good grasp of what it means to love God. It is a process. Many people fall out of the process of knowing. I did not. I keep at it. But I keep at it because I have the time and the means. Also sufficient health and enough wealth so that I have little worry. I have time to worry about the World. I don't recommend it, but I will recommend knowing Christ till the day I die. Whatever happens.

 

[waitasec]

If you were the only person in the universe objective = subjective.

That is:
<love> is objective understanding
Y is not. (but it is since subjective=objective, so this means Y is objective understanding)
i feel <love>...this is a true statement.
i feel <love> is Y...is a objective statement

or something like that

nope.

i feel LOVE is Y...is a subjective statement
lets talk about Y?
love is blind
love is tough
love is mercy etc... all are subjective statements

so god is Y is a subjective statement
what convinces someone that their subjective statements are true is a matter of desire for it to be so.

So if you are the only person in the universe why is love relevant?

i was thinking the same thing...

 

[savagewind]

Why is love relevant if you are the only person in the universe?

Why is sex called love?

Sex is for procreation. It is much better WITH love.

So alone in the universe means an overwhelming urge to multiply.

Isn't that what evolution is all about? You can believe survival of the fittest leads to more life unassisted but you can't imagine the FIRST ONE can do that?

 

[waitasec]

Why is love relevant if you are the only person in the universe?

Why is sex called love?

Sex is for procreation. It is much better WITH love.

So alone in the universe means an overwhelming urge to multiply.

Isn't that what evolution is all about? You can believe survival of the fittest leads to more life unassisted but you can't imagine the FIRST ONE can do that?

then you are talking about love for ones self

 

[savagewind]

then you are talking about love for ones self

God should not love god's self?

Your kidding! I know you are.

 

[waitasec]

God should not love god's self?

Your kidding! I know you are.

well of course god loves himself...
in fact he loves himself so much that those he created have to love him too in order to have a fulfilled life, right?

 

[savagewind]

well of course god loves himself...
in fact he loves himself so much that those he created have to love him too in order to have a fulfilled life, right?

Is that your final answer? In other words are you saying you are an unbeliever but are NOT experiencing a fulfilling life?

What are you saying?

 

[waitasec]

Is that your final answer?

are we playing who wants to be a millionaire?

In other words are you saying you are an unbeliever but are NOT experiencing a fulfilling life?

absolutely not

What are you saying?

god exists because we do.

 

[savagewind]

Your comment then is trollish sarcasm?

If your posting "right?" means do I believe that, then you are assuming wrong. I don't believe that. I agree with what is written Matthew 5:45

 

[waitasec]

Your comment then is trollish sarcasm?

why because i remain unconvinced?

 

[savagewind]

why because i remain unconvinced?

No. This is what I read (quote) in fact he loves himself so much that those he created have to love him too in order to have a fulfilled life

All the evidence proves otherwise. Are you unconvinced the evidence does NOT prove otherwise?

 

[waitasec]

No. This is what I read (quote) in fact he loves himself so much that those he created have to love him too in order to have a fulfilled life

All the evidence proves otherwise.

can you provide an example of this evidence?

Are you unconvinced the evidence does NOT prove otherwise?

i don't know, you need show me some evidence 1st.

 

[savagewind]

can you provide an example of this evidence?



i don't know, you need show me some evidence 1st.

OK

My husband is an atheist and he tells me often how his life is fulfilling. The proof is the many people who lead lives that are to be envied even by sons of God.
Jeremiah 12:1

 

[waitasec]

OK

My husband is an atheist and he tells me often how his life is fulfilling. The proof is the many people who lead lives that are to be envied even by sons of God.
Jeremiah 12:1

ok now i see where you are going with this...

why i said what i did was mostly in reaction to the understanding that god can only fulfill because of his love...and the idea of love comes from the idea of jesus as the way the truth and the life...
but i am afraid this will derail the thread...

 

[JohnLeo]

there has been much give and take here regarding the existence or non-extistence of God or a deity of some sort. There has been no mention of the hereafter or an afterlife. Is it reasonable to assume that a belief in God goes hand-in-hand with a belief in an afterlife? Is it reasonable to assume that a non-belief in God goes hand-in-hand with a non-belief in any sort of afterlife? The problem with God is, trying to prove his non-existence (A negative hypothesis) is not possible. The case for God is a little better but not much. The best evidence we have is the creation which lends impetus to the idea of a creator. The problem, though, is that no experiment can be done by science to prove the existence of a creator. Not so the question of an afterlife. 150 plus years of research and experimentation by leading scientists in varied fieldds such as quantum physics , neuroscience and medicine has yielded a mountain of evidence which points toward the fact that death is not the end of us. So the onus then falls on the non-believing materialists to debunk the evidence and explain why it is invalid.