What makes you think Islam is a false religion?

[kai]

I dont think they are all the same....most of my closest friends are atheists and they are not as narrowminded as some atheists. They will openly talk about religion in a nice manner and see the good points in any religion. I think that because of the post I quoted and also from what I have seen in other posts on this forum!

ok i didnt get that from the post you quoted.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

You feel free, eh? You feel like ... erm ... you have freedom of choice now? Maybe?

No? Nothing has changed in regards to my moral behavior. Why would it? Why do you keep insisting atheism and being some sort of immoral criminal have any correlation?

And freedom of choice to do what exactly? I'm not gay so you don't have to worry about me doing anything that involves that. I don't have the desire to rape or kill anyone. I don't hate anyone, nor would I ever give away any of my heart to such a feeling. I don't and never have stolen. I don't have the desire to go set someone's house on fire. So please, tell me what freedom of choice you think I possess now?

In any case, depending on self-standards might be well and good in your case but by and large self-standards are a quite low. Lack of absolute accountability would leave mankind nowhere. And lack of absolute accountability, stacey, leaves no room for morality. Which is why I have always said that in theory, Athiesm leaves no room for morality.

Lastly, your claim that you feel free? Tell me how you would feel landing in a jungle without a map. I suppose that, too, is freedom isn't it?

YMir ... nuclear please

All these statements you make are your opinion. I hope you realize that.

What's not an opinion is this: there are earthly punishments, too, for the bad things people do.

Now I usually don't even have to think about the law with regards to whether I'll do something because the moral side of me has already ruled it out on the basis that it is WRONG morally. If that filter doesn't apply then the law will be the next platform on which to judge if I'm going to carry through with something. As mentioned above, I don't have criminal tendencies :areyoucra so please tell me again how, theoretically, I'm immoral just because I'm atheist?

 

[stacey bo bacey]

Well, this old Frost giant welcomes you back to reality, Stacey bo bacey banana bana fo facey... What you did is the hardest thing to do, to decide to go it alone without an invisible friend to guide you. That takes some kind of real courage in my books. Frankly, it is a testament to your intelligence and compassion for yourself. It almost reminds me of that kid's story, "The little train that could". I wish religious folks could appreciate how liberating it is to not feel a need for god....

This thread serves as proof that Islam is many things, but nowhere near being as "true" as its followers wish to believe.

:bounce Aw, shucks! Thanks. Courage is one thing I didn't think would be a part of it. It was definitely hard to let go of the notion that I have a big guy in the sky lookin' out for me. But, as with any belief, you give some and you take some.

But regarding the OP. I don't know if I consider Islam a false religion. I really am not concerned with making a judgment call on other people's religion. I just know what's good for me and that's it.

 

[Im an Atheist]

:bounce Aw, shucks! Thanks. Courage is one thing I didn't think would be a part of it. It was definitely hard to let go of the notion that I have a big guy in the sky lookin' out for me. But, as with any belief, you give some and you take some.

Personally i think it takes courage to step out, be unique, express your values amoung society, not go with the flow in the religion.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

:bounce Aw, shucks! Thanks. Courage is one thing I didn't think would be a part of it. It was definitely hard to let go of the notion that I have a big guy in the sky lookin' out for me. But, as with any belief, you give some and you take some.

Personally i think it takes courage to step out, be unique, express your values amoung society, not go with the flow in the religion.

You know that can work the other way as well right????

 

[stacey bo bacey]

You know that can work the other way as well right????

Yes, we all know it works both ways. Don't worry.

 

[YmirGF]

YMir ... nuclear please

As you wish.

Happy now?

Why do atheists or people who not believe in Islam, Christianity etc believe that anyone who believes in a God or something supernatural are weak, with low self esteem and are not free??? and apparently not intelligent??? I can assure you I am neither of those

Given the manner you have chosen to express your sentiments would tend to negate your final assertion. Contrary to popular opinion, adding extra question marks to a question does nothing but verify a total disregard for the proper use of punctuation.

- in fact I am quite the opposite. My Mum thinks I am little bit too head strong sometimes.....

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Is it really true that I must either accept Islam or reject it? How usual is for Muslims to think along these terms?

The bottom line is that if you do not accept Islam, you are, nonetheless rejecting Islam, for whatever reason.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Yes, we all know it works both ways. Don't worry.

Just checking!

 

[Truth_Faith13]

As you wish.

Happy now?


Given the manner you have chosen to express your sentiments would tend to negate your final assertion. Contrary to popular opinion, adding extra question marks to a question does nothing but verify a total disregard for the proper use of punctuation.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

The bottom line is that if you do not accept Islam, you are, nonetheless rejecting Islam, for whatever reason.

Hehehe...I always add too many question marks, it is just something I do!

 

[tariqkhwaja]

As you wish.

Happy now?

Oooh very happy. Needless to say you sidestepped. btw how did you paste a picture. I have been trying to do that in another thread and I have been miserably failing.

The bottom line is that if you do not accept Islam, you are, nonetheless rejecting Islam, for whatever reason.

Yeps. You are either here or there. Accepting some of Islam is not enough according to Islam. You got to accept all of it.

 

[LuisDantas]

Oooh very happy. Needless to say you sidestepped. btw how did you paste a picture. I have been trying to do that in another thread and I have been miserably failing.

Try quoting Ymir's post to see how. It involves having the image hosted in some sort of web page and using (img) tags with square brackets.

Yeps. You are either here or there. Accepting some of Islam is not enough according to Islam. You got to accept all of it.

Now, this could be a problem. Is Islam willing to accept that many people simply can not and will not adopt it? Atheists, for one group.

 

[tariqkhwaja]

It didn't work but thanks anyways Luis. He might not have done that method.

Islam is willing to accept that many people will not adopt it. There are two categories in this regard.

The first is the one who don't adopt it either because they never heard of it or didn't get its true message (for example they got the version that supports Osama). For these people the Quran says:
English Translation of Ayah/Verse 2:63
[SIZE=-1]"Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." - Yusuf Ali Translation[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Note that Sabians refers to any non-Abrahamic religions.[/SIZE]

The second is the one who got the message of the Quran and did not adopt it. Islam accepts that several such people exist. Islam also states that these people are dishonest with themselves and wrong.

Note that I do not represent Islam and when saying "Islam says" it is what I believe Islam says and I might be very wrong.

 

[Storm]

The second is the one who got the message of the Quran and did not adopt it. These people are dishonest and wrong.

It's dishonest to disagree now?

 

[tariqkhwaja]

Why else would God punish anyone? Think about it ... why on Earth would God punish anyone for making a logical mistake, not getting the proper message, etc.

The only reason God would punish someone is if they were dishonest. If they put their egos and refused to accept the truth. It is dishonesty with the self. I am optimistic, however, that this is not the case with the people here.

 

[Storm]

So it's your position that if I don't accept Islam, it's because I don't understand it?

What if I understand it and just think it's mistaken?

 

[tariqkhwaja]

It is not my position ... it is my optimism that you do not understand. I might be very mistaken.

If you understand and stand to disagree then you are being dishonest with yourself.

 

[Storm]

If you understand and stand to disagree then you are being dishonest with yourself.

How? How is simple disagreement dishonest?

Put it this way, tariq: is the full reality of God comprehensible to the human mind, or is it beyond our understanding?

If you admit that it's beyond our understanding, then even Islam must be flawed. If Islam is flawed, then it is not dishonest to disagree with it.

EDIT: Even if Islam DOES represent comprehensive knowledge of God, which I believe is impossible, it is not dishonest to disagree. If one has doubts, it would be dishonest to ignore them.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

If you understand and stand to disagree then you are being dishonest with yourself.

No, no. If you disagree with something and you don't pretend to agree with it by just glossing over the details, you are being HONEST with yourself.

Once again, tariqkhwaja (what's your real name, btw?), you have to listen to what speaks to you. Allah apparently spoke to you. That's all fine and dandy, but that will not be the case for everyone. And just because that's so, does not by ANY means whatsoever mean that they are being dishonest with themselves or with the world.

Maybe you should take some sociology or psychology classes or something? You might then be able to better understand what it means that not everyone is the same.

 

[tariqkhwaja]

Firstly, Allah has never spoken to me.

Now what Storm and you have said is pretty related. So I will try to answer both of you in one go.

Humans are different yes but there is some knowledge, rules, truths, etc. that apply to all humans. Genetically we are 99.9% the same (or about that much) and surely there are truths common to us all. These common truths can only be revealed from an Absolute Vantage Point unaffected by culture, race, etc. Now assuming God exists He is the only Absolute Vantage Point who can reveal these truths to us.

Complete comprehension of God is beyond our understanding. But within our human potential there is a limit to how much we can understand God. Islam claims to be that limit. Islam claims that if you follow it you will reach that limit. And Islam says that it is the absolute truth for mankind. Islam says, basically, that for humans it is the perfect religion. Therefore, Islam must say also that additions/deletions to perfection are imperfections and therefore even partial or 99% agreement with Islam is dishonesty.

The example is like that of a student who continues arguing with his professor despite the point being clear just to nurture his/her ego. So a human who does not accept Islam once the point has been made clear is being dishonest with himself or herself.

 

[Storm]

Humans are different yes but there is some knowledge, rules, truths, etc. that apply to all humans. Genetically we are 99.9% the same (or about that much) and surely there are truths common to us all. These common truths can only be revealed from an Absolute Vantage Point unaffected by culture, race, etc. Now assuming God exists He is the only Absolute Vantage Point who can reveal these truths to us. {emphasis added}

No, that's assuming that both God exists, and further that your theory of God is correct. I agree with the first point, and emphatically disagree on the latter.

Complete comprehension of God is beyond our understanding.

Then, inescapably, Islam too is flawed. Seeing those flaws is not dishonest.

But within our human potential there is a limit to how much we can understand God. Islam claims to be that limit. Islam claims that if you follow it you will reach that limit.

But EVERY religion claims to be the best, most complete understanding. What makes your claim any more valid than their's? My view is that it's hubris all around. None of us have an accurate picture of God, only interpretation.

And Islam says that it is the absolute truth for mankind. Islam says, basically, that for humans it is the perfect religion. Therefore, Islam must say also that additions/deletions to perfection are imperfections and therefore even partial or 99% agreement with Islam is dishonesty.

Which is sheer hubris.

The example is like that of a student who continues arguing with his professor despite the point being clear just to nurture his/her ego. So a human who does not accept Islam once the point has been made clear is being dishonest with himself or herself.

Not if they honestly disagree.

For instance, I do not believe in an external God as Islam does. That, to me, is the most glaring flaw. I can understand Islam perfectly (I'm not claiming that I do, mind) and still disagree with this basic premise. Doing so is not dishonest.