What makes you think Islam is a false religion?

[Riverwolf]

Uh... guys?

Since when did Wikipedia become the source of all our historical knowledge? I'd rather view it the same way I know view the various History Channel documentaries that I would post occasionally: a starting point, but hardly an end point.

And Suraj, the human race is made of far more than just descendants of East Asian tribes and West Asian tribes. What about the Europeans before the Celts(who were from Russia originally... imagine that!) or Africans who stayed behind? Why aren't they in the picture? Or Native Americans? What about them?

I know these people all shared a common ancestor, but they split eons before Genesis Chapter One. This is a scientific fact.

If you blame your sources on your mistakes, I recommend you get new sources. It's your responsibility to research what your sources claim from other non-related ones, to confirm what they said. If all non-related sources say or claim the same thing, you can reasonably assume they're all correct. But always be on the lookout for any other source that might refute what all the others say, and research what they claim; they might turn out to be the correct one. (out of religious context, a good example is the theory that many dinosaurs are more closely related to birds than lizards; a very radical thought when it was first proposed, but one that makes far more sense to me)

And here's a bit of human nature: we want power. We want control. We want to be right. We abhor being wrong. So kings will bend historical facts to make themselves look great and their enemies look evil. Someone once said: "War doesn't decide who is right; only who is left." (anyone know who said that?) Whoever is left bends history to make them grand. I don't have to look at ancient religions to know this; I only have to look at the history of my own country("U"SA). As a child, the idea that this country was by far the greatest of all the world's countries was hammered mercilessly into my mind, filling up my brain with downright lies. Now I look at it's history, and I find a country literally running red with the blood of thousands upon thousands. If I may borrow a verse from one of my favorite metal bands,

"White men came, saw the blessed land.
We cared, you took; you fought, we lost.
Not a war, but an unfair fight,
Sceneries painted beautiful in blood..."
-Creek Mary's Blood, Nightwish

Forty thousand years and our hearts still haven't evolved much beyond the jungle...



Oh, and Lava? The Hindu gods aren't idols; idols are man-made objects that are worshiped, like the Golden Calf, or things in nature never meant to be worshiped, like the dragon in the extended story of Daniel. (or really bad singers...)

 

[Right_Path]

Suraj, I can see you are persistently making posts against Islam in this thread.

However, it surprised me that you gave no answer to a SERIES of posts I made specifically to you, starting from page 46, (including a reply to the 'fight the unbelievers' verse).

I'm still waiting.

 

[Right_Path]

He was married Aisha when she was 9 years old, and apparently even at the the age of 7 he had lust for her!

Personal...your problem is personal, you hate prophet Mohamed PBUH.

LUST...you are very ignorant...Mohamed chose to marry Aisha for other reasons than beyond your narrow-minded thoughts.

She was very smart, I mean she was special...and had an extraordinary memory, so we was chosen so that she can recall his speaches after his death, and thats what happened.

Rubbish. I have already proven that to be untrue. There was no fighting back. Mohammed attacked Mecca in cold-blood and massacred its people as revenge for them not accepting him as a prophet. I have already given you proof of authentic letters composed by Mohammed and delivered by his followers to neigbouring kingdoms which say:

First, you have proven NOTHING, absolutely nothing...you haven't even answered my replies previously.

Second, I am sorry to tell you once again, you are so ignorant...do you have any idea that the Mecca Victory (Fath Mecca) did not witness any blood shed, Mohamed PBUH entered Mecca with no battle!

CONVERT OR DIE

The Hadiths record just how brutal Mohammed was. He would have women raped, childrens limbs hacked off, and thousands beheaded if they refused to convert to his religion.

Nope the Hadiths clearly show the source of terror was Mohammed himself. Do you want me to link how many murders Mohammed commited which are recorded in the Hadiths which were done on the order of Mohammed? He did not even spare women.

What is that???????

What are your sources for this crap? everyword you said in this post is way off the truth!!

You know what, I am starting to feel you are making up stories.

 

[darkendless]

What are your sources for this crap? everyword you said in this post is way off the truth!!

You know what, I am starting to feel you are making up stories.

You do not know the truth. The Quran is the closest to truth that you have, yet how can you claim that it is truth when you have no idea. You only think it is because you're told so.

On the topic of ignoring posts i think i directed one at you about 20 pages ago that you never replied to. Are you going to pick and choose which posts you want to reply to?

 

[.lava]

No it isn't I said I have no problem with 2 billion Muslims, my problem is with the religion Islam. How is that illogical?[/font]

because we Muslims love Islam and as you mentioned somewhere else, what we believe is a part of who we are.

Well the credibility of Islam is already in question. So you cannot prove objections raised against it with what the Quran says.

My objection is the Quran is a fabricated text by Mohammed based on his own conveniance. To justify something, he just reveals another "divine" passage. For example when he commits aduletry with one of his wives and she becomes upset and chides him, he feels guilty and then suddenly he has a revelation, "You shouldn't feel guilty, she was wrong"

he never committed adultery. i would reuqest you to quote what you're talking about. if it is a verse in Qur'an, please post it.

My objection is Allah is none other than Mohammeds alter ego.

he did not have free will therefor none of his decision were made by his ego.

Again sorry this is not proof. Mohammed says it was built by Abraham, but remember my objection is his crediblity is questionable. I think he's made that up to justify the capture of Kabba. Go to the other topic, "Is it true Kabbha was a Hindu temple" there is now conclusive evidence that Kabbha was a Hindu temple and the stone is none other than the Shiva stone.

well of course i can not prove you Kaba was built by Abraham (PBUH) only for God, not idols. you can't prove otherwise either. but you insist, therefor i insist.

He was married Aisha when she was 9 years old, and apparently even at the the age of 7 he had lust for her!

lust is not welcomed in Islam because it is a vice.
Aisha (PBUH) was chosen even before she was born to be wife of Prophet. in general, when two agrees to marry, it is only about them. ut marrying the messenger of God brings heavy responsibilities. she was chosen for that duty, not because Prophets' interst for her. it was command of God. she had very strong memory. therefor most of the hadiths were told by her. if the duty was given to someone who easily forgets then we could not know thousands of advices told by messenger of God. so to speak, in a marriage with duties to serve entire humanity is not really about sexuality. when Aisha(PBUH) announced as wife of Prophet, tribes of both sides had infinite peace between. that's another reason why they got married. after marriage she satrted living in the house of Prophet. she memorized everything she heard from him. she grew up there. but that does not mean they had sexual relationship at that age. matter of fact, Aisha (PBUH) did not even have one child. so noone could say she died as a virgin. only God knows that.

Rubbish. I have already proven that to be untrue. There was no fighting back. Mohammed attacked Mecca in cold-blood and massacred its people as revenge for them not accepting him as a prophet. I have already given you proof of authentic letters composed by Mohammed and delivered by his followers to neigbouring kingdoms which say:

CONVERT OR DIE

The Hadiths record just how brutal Mohammed was. He would have women raped, childrens limbs hacked off, and thousands beheaded if they refused to convert to his religion.

hear me Suraj, please, Muslims escaped to Madina and all the attacks were made by Meccans. therefor all the wars occoured not around Macca but around Madina.

Nope the Hadiths clearly show the source of terror was Mohammed himself. Do you want me to link how many murders Mohammed commited which are recorded in the Hadiths which were done on the order of Mohammed? He did not even spare women.

some hadiths (like thousands of them) were added to hadith books by enemies of Islam. therefor Qur'an comes first. if it contradicts with verse of Qur'an, then we would not follow them. Because original text of Qur'an is unchangable.

 

[Renji]

That is what I am doing Lawrence. I cannot force anyone to believe anything. But I will leave no stone unturned to make my case in any debate. In this case: Islam is a false religion.

Well, what are you going to feel if someone says that Hinduism
is false? The same way Muslims feel when you say that their religion is false.

 

[Im an Atheist]

Isalm is not a false religion, it is a different belief with different morals and they worship a different God.

They believe in different morals, and some people you their religion asan excuse, "Suicide bombers". "muslim Extremists".

 

[Surya Deva]

Well, what are you going to feel if someone says that Hinduism
is false? The same way Muslims feel when you say that their religion is false.

Ask them to argue their case.

I have argued my case for why Islam is a false religion and have established a very good position, replete with hard evidence to support my claims. Likewise, if somebody wants to call Hinduism false, they need to do the same. Otherwise keep their silence.

 

[Surya Deva]

because we Muslims love Islam and as you mentioned somewhere else, what we believe is a part of who we are

I believe I did mention that. However I also mentioned I don't hate anybody. I think there is truth and untruth, and I support truth. I don't even hate Hitler, despite how evil he was, he was just a soul identified with untruth.

I consider Islam to be untruth. I don't there is even an iota of truth or merit in this religion. A religion that was founded by a false prophet who was a dacoit/bandit leader, who looted, plundered, raped and killed and then his religion spread by the war through genocide cannot contain even one particle of truth(The proof is now on this forum: Shocking Reveals about Mohammed)

he never committed adultery. i would reuqest you to quote what you're talking about. if it is a verse in Qur'an, please post it.

Ok let me find it.

Aisha (PBUH) was chosen even before she was born to be wife of Prophet. in general, when two agrees to marry, it is only about them. ut marrying the messenger of God brings heavy responsibilities. she was chosen for that duty, not because Prophets' interst for her. it was command of God. she had very strong memory. therefor most of the hadiths were told by her. if the duty was given to someone who easily forgets then we could not know thousands of advices told by messenger of God. so to speak, in a marriage with duties to serve entire humanity is not really about sexuality. when Aisha(PBUH) announced as wife of Prophet, tribes of both sides had infinite peace between. that's another reason why they got married. after marriage she satrted living in the house of Prophet. she memorized everything she heard from him. she grew up there. but that does not mean they had sexual relationship at that age. matter of fact, Aisha (PBUH) did not even have one child. so noone could say she died as a virgin. only God knows that.

What you are arguing is a teleology fallacy. This means that you are taking the effect and arguing the effect is the cause. For example: It reains because crops grow. No, it does not rain because crops grow, it rains because of rainclouds. The crops growing is just an effect of the rain. Basically you cannot argue that something which happened later is the cause of it. Aisha grew up to have a great memory is something which happened later, it is not the cause of Mohammed marrying her.

At the end it comes down to: Mohamed married a 9 year old child and had designs on her from the age of 7. In civilised cultures this is called peadophilla and we don't like peadophiles.

hear me Suraj, please, Muslims escaped to Madina and all the attacks were made by Meccans. therefor all the wars occoured not around Macca but around Madina.

You make it sound like Mohammed had a big following in Mecca. Actually no he was considered a lunatic by the Meccans, and his followers were little more than half a dozen people. He was ridiculed widely and humiliated in public. He claimed he was the prophet and came up with verses on Jesus and Abraham, and the Meccans knew he was stealing things from religions he knew. He stole from the Meccans their chief deity Allah, and this annoyed them more. They knew he was insane. Many times they showed him up: When Mohammed challenged them to produce verses just like him, the Meccans showed them they could make up with verses just like him and much better, Mohammed was so infuriated by this embarrasement he had that Meccan beheaded later. They invited him to debates and Mohammed was defeated horribly and refused to enter any other(revealing another verse on why he won't debate lol)

He fled to Medina and became a huge tyrant there, robbed caravans, plundered money and masscred jews. His followers increased with greed for the booty and ones who were forced to join his false religion.

some hadiths (like thousands of them) were added to hadith books by enemies of Islam. therefor Qur'an comes first. if it contradicts with verse of Qur'an, then we would not follow them. Because original text of Qur'an is unchangable.

Sorry it does not work like that. The Hadiths that contain the murders commited by Mohammed and his real history are actually authorative in Islam. You can't just arbitarily pick which part you accept and which you don't. It is fortunate these Hadiths have survived and have been preserved by Islam, otherwise we never would have know the truth about Islam and Mohammed.

 

[gnostic]

Islam is a religion, regardless if we agree with it or not. The same goes for Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. They are religions regardless if we follow such religion or not.

As to the nonsense about true Islam (or true Christianity or "true" anything) if for these theists and believers to work out for themselves.

Religion is religion. It comes in many favours, and not everyone taste is the same.

If you ask me if I believe this passage, teaching or tenet is true, then I got something to work with.

Me? I think it is just pure pointless sophistry to argue about "true" or "false" religion. I don't really care. I may like or not like a religion for specific reason, but it doesn't change the fact it is a religion.

 

[kai]

Islam is a religion, regardless if we agree with it or not. The same goes for Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. They are religions regardless if we follow such religion or not.

As to the nonsense about true Islam (or true Christianity or "true" anything) if for these theists and believers to work out for themselves.

Religion is religion. It comes in many favours, and not everyone taste is the same.

If you ask me if I believe this passage, teaching or tenet is true, then I got something to work with.

Me? I think it is just pure pointless sophistry to argue about "true" or "false" religion. I don't really care. I may like or not like a religion for specific reason, but it doesn't change the fact it is a religion.

i agree , its true if you beleive it, its false if you dont , its relative isnt it.

 

[gnostic]

i agree , its true if you beleive it, its false if you dont , its relative isnt it.

Which is why I have never bought the whole shebang of someone claiming he is "true Muslim" or "true Christian". Or if a disagree with another, he would say something like, "he is not Muslim" or "he is not a true Christian".

Christian is a Christian and a Muslim is a Muslim, regardless if we agree with their view or not.

I am certainly not going to tell a person, you're not a "Muslim" or "Christian". More than likely to get a knife in the back when I turn around. :thud:

A true Muslim would be Muhammad, and a true Christian would be Jesus. I don't think anyone could live with such high standard or expectation.

 

[kai]

I am certainly not going to tell a person, you're not a "Muslim" or "Christian". More than likely to get a knife in the back when I turn around.

not from a true Muslim or Christian surely ( he says somewhat tongue in cheekly)

 

[.lava]

Which is why I have never bought the whole shebang of someone claiming he is "true Muslim" or "true Christian". Or if a disagree with another, he would say something like, "he is not Muslim" or "he is not a true Christian".

Christian is a Christian and a Muslim is a Muslim, regardless if we agree with their view or not.

I am certainly not going to tell a person, you're not a "Muslim" or "Christian". More than likely to get a knife in the back when I turn around. :thud:

A true Muslim would be Muhammad, and a true Christian would be Jesus. I don't think anyone could live with such high standard or expectation.

i do like you for your logic and humanity. but you should know not every Muslim is real Muslim. there is not just a few verses in Qur'an, there is a entire surah that's named for them. it is titled Munafikun which means people who say and look Muslim but they are not. in on-line translations this word 'Munafiqoon' translated as hypocrites but this expression can never be used for non-Muslims.

63:1 When the hypocrites come to you, they say: We bear witness that you are most surely Allah's Messenger; and Allah knows that you are most surely His Messenger, and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars.

 

[gnostic]

but you should know not every Muslim is real Muslim. there is not just a few verses in Qur'an, there is a entire surah that's named for them. it is titled Munafikun which means people who say and look Muslim but they are not. in on-line translations this word 'Munafiqoon' translated as hypocrites but this expression can never be used for non-Muslims.

You may call them hypocrites or Munafikun, if you like.

They existed in all religions, I'd guess.

There are good Muslims and bad Muslims. They existed. And they existed in all religions. Or it could be that his or her interpretations are different to yours in some areas, but does that warranted a distinction between "true" and "false"?

If an agnostic has a different view to mine, I am not going to tell him or her, that this individual is not an agnostic. It's not my place to say so.

Unless, I know for certain he or she to be atheist, or some other non-theist groups. The line between agnosticism and atheism can be blurred at time. I get confused, sometimes, myself.

I considered myself as agnostic. I can't and won't call myself a true agnostic, because I personally don't think there is such thing.

 

[Right_Path]

You do not know the truth. The Quran is the closest to truth that you have, yet how can you claim that it is truth when you have no idea. You only think it is because you're told so.

This is because I believe the Quran 'is the truth'....at least I have a source, a HOLY source.

Anyways your comment is useless because everyone can say what you have said against the opposing notion.

On the topic of ignoring posts i think i directed one at you about 20 pages ago that you never replied to.

I am adamant I did not miss that one on purpose, and I am ready to reply if I could...plz re-state your question.

Are you going to pick and choose which posts you want to reply to?

No no no I am not YmirGF or Suraj

 

[darkendless]

This is because I believe the Quran 'is the truth'....at least I have a source, a HOLY source.

Well see thats where belief comes in. I believe the Quran is nothing but an old book of stories.

I think its agree to disagree, we both do not agree on what constitutes "the truth."

 

[Gharib]

Do you believe that any religion other than Islam is a false religion?

i am a muslim too and my answer to your question is yes
if you want proof of why i think that especially about christianity then i will answer your questions Inshallah

 

[Gharib]

And finally, sometimes if you don't receive an answer, it's because there's no one there to give one.

Allah answers every prayer and every call but because you cannot undestand it even when it is infront of you that doesn't mean Allah isn't there, because he is. Allah knows which is best for us and thus he does not answer everyones question. if you go to a doctor and you get prescribed a specific medicine why would you take it?? because the doctor knows best just as Allah knows best about whats right for its creations.

 

[islamcity]

i am a muslim too and my answer to your question is yes
if you want proof of why i think that especially about christianity then i will answer your questions Inshallah

and i will back you up brother