What Orthodox Judaism Really Believes

[Yanni]

This is an interesting point that I want to mention which I'm not sure was ever mentioned on this forum. I am an Orthodox Jew. Most people will say that their religion is the only true religion, and that anyone who doesn't join that religion is destined for eternal hell (or something of that sort). Believe it or not, Orthodox Judaism does NOT believe that. The truth is that EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING has the opportunity to earn a share in the World to Come! Although we do claim to be God's Chosen People (which God in the Torah says at least 21 times that we will ETERNALLY be so), that doesn't mean that if someone doesn't join the Jewish people, he/she will be forgotten by God. We Jews have 613 commandments to keep. 613! Some pertain to men, some pertain to women, some only are required in Israel. We believe that EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING has a requirement to keep 7 commandments, knows as the 7 Noahide Laws in English. I will even list them:

1. Prohibition of Idolatry
2. Prohibition of Murder
3. Prohibition of Theft
4. Prohibition of Sexual immorality
5. Prohibition of Blasphemy
6. Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive
7. Establishment of courts of law

Regarding sexual immorality, adultery is unfortunately very common throughout the world. Blasphemy includes not cursing God and not cursing in general.

These laws are basic to establishing a functional society under the kingship of God.

We believe that EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING who keeps these commandments, and is an all around good individual, will have a special place in the World to Come. Judaism is unique for making this claim. NO. You do NOT have to be Jewish to find favor before God. We even shun people from converting because by Jewish law, once one converts, there is no turning back. Being Jewish bears a ton of responsibility. For the already non-Jew, just keeping these 7 commandments would be enough.

My last point is that in the Torah, when describing God's Giving of the Torah on Mount Sinai, the Torah states clearly that God revealed Himself TO THE ENTIRE NATION (by tradition, all 3 million of them)! Now, most religions have based their authenticity based on the claims of ONE or a few individuals. AND EVERYONE BELIEVED THEM!? No other nation ever had such a claim, because you can't go to a whole nation of 3 million people and convince them that God spoke to one person and that his "new" religion is the true religion, and have this "claim" past down as tradition generation after generation. It's just not possible. If God ever wanted to exchange His nation for another (which, as mentioned earlier, He vowed would never happen), then why didn't He reveal Himself to the ENTIRE new nation and tell them that?! Like I said, He never did, because no one can forge such an event. "Hey, 2,000 people standing there. Let's make a claim that God spoke to us and said we're His new nation." Maybe you can fool some people. "Hey, 3 million people standing in front of me. Guess what, God spoke to ALL of you yesterday saying we're His new nation." Most will probably say, "No He didn't. Yesterday, I was fishing with my son," or some other claim. You can convince SOME people, but no one can convince 3 million people, UNLESS IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED! And the Jews pass this tradition down to every generation because that event was the foundation of our nationhood and was the singular most significant event in history: God revealed Himself in this world to an entire nation of men, women, and children at Mount Sinai and gave them an eternal Torah.

I hope this has given some of you an insight into the truth of Judaism, and how heaven and hell does NOT depend on a non-Jew becoming Jewish. For US, it does. But not for YOU.

 

[Breathe]

Regarding the Noahide laws, what would you deem as idolatry? The veneration of the icon as if it is God, or if it is being used to worship God, but not worshipped as God?

I've never understood the reason for the no-icon worship.

 

[Yanni]

You've brought up an interesting question. Let me give you a quick background on the development of idolatry, as Orthodox Judaism's tradition has it. Way back in time, during the hundreds of years following the creation of the world, mankind actually was aware of the Presence of God. However, they were mistaken in their reasoning that since God is so mighty and we humans are so insignificant next to Him, how can we possibly speak directly to Him in prayer? So, they thought that the next big things were the sun, moon, starts, planets, etc. They thought theses entities could serve as intermediaries between them and God. The problem was that God WANTS to have a close relationship with humans; He didn't want intermediaries. So maybe the problem wasn't so bad then (don't get me wrong; it was still bad). But over time, people figured out how to use black magic (which really existed back in the day) to their advantage. The whole black magic concept is very difficult to comprehend, but to make a long story short, people generally crave to have what they want (like rain for their fields, food, possessions, wealth, power, etc.) and they decided to carve "gods" for themselves that would bring about what they wanted through some kind of manipulation of nature thought this black magic. Basically, THEY made these "gods" do what they wanted them to do. So if their "gods" don't have any independent power, why would anyone serve them as gods? (Once again, this whole concept is extremely difficult to explain).
In any case, people started not to ask God for what they needed or wanted, they used these "gods" or "icons" for these gods to achieve their goals. God doesn't need icons to communicate with Him. Just standing somewhere and sincerely praying to God is enough, because God is omnipresent and hears everyone's prayers. Using icons is completely irrelevant, therefore, and since they resemble the icons used for idol worship, we are forbidden from using them.
Did this kind of answer your question?

 

[Breathe]

This answers my question to some extent.

However - I also am wondering more along the lines of people worshipping things not as though they have power, but so they have a "focal point" as opposed to entities. A lot of humans need something to concentrate on during worship, and this is how many religions such as Hindus use icons (i.e., they are not God, but they are a "telephone line" for those who need it) - would this, and the artistic use of icons but not for worship, still be considered as idolatry?

 

[Yanni]

To answer this question, let me mention a commandment in the Torah and in Halachah (Jewish law). For us Jews, it is absolutely forbidden to even have a graven image in ones home. It's not even in a worship setting, like a temple or a synagogue. It's even in one's home. Now the only reason that I know why we can't have these things (even statues of people for personal pleasure, i.e. decoration) is because these images have so long been connected with idolatry that even to own a statue would be problematic. Now, the only kind of statue we can't own is one that has FULL facial features, and if it's a full statue, all it's fingers (basically all it's limbs) as if it were a human. The reason why we don't have these things is because we are required to distance ourselves from the practices of the other religions (because like every religion, of course, we believe that we are the true religion) so that we don't resemble them or come to join them. (Please keep in mind my post above, about us NOT believing that non-Jews will all go to hell. I think we're unique in that we DON'T believe that if you're not a Jew, then you'll go to hell. That's why the Noahide laws are so special). A person shouldn't need icons to help them serve (or pray) to God. A person should be able to close his eyes and just talk to God and feel connected (even if you don't actually feel connected, which without prophecy, which doesn't exist today, can't really be achieved). What I mean is just the knowledge that God, the most Powerful Force in the Universe, is listening to you (I mean, you can't call the President of the United States whenever you want, can you?), should be enough of an "outlet" or "focal point" for you.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I also am wondering more along the lines of people worshipping things not as though they have power, but so they have a "focal point" as opposed to entities.

Like the Kotel perhaps?

 

[Yanni]

The Kotel is definitely a focal point, but not because it "aids" our prayer to Him, but because since our Holy Temple was there, and in our tradition this spot, the Temple Mount, is where heaven and earth have a direct link, the holiness of the place makes our prayer that much more meaningful. We're not using the wall to pray to Him, but His Presence is much more concentrated in that location and therefore we may feel closer to Him there than anywhere else in the world, and therefore we tend to pray with much greater fervor there.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The Kotel is definitely a focal point, but not because it "aids" our prayer to Him, but because since our Holy Temple was there, and in our tradition this spot, the Temple Mount, is where heaven and earth have a direct link, the holiness of the place makes our prayer that much more special and pleasing to God.

Given ...

Construction 19 BCE

According to the Tanakh, Solomon's Temple was built atop the Temple Mount in the 10th century BCE and destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 BCE. The Second Temple was completed and dedicated in 516 BCE. Around 19 BCE Herod the Great began a massive expansion project on the Temple Mount. In addition to renovating and enlarging the Temple, he artificially expanded the area, which resulted in an enlarged platform. Today's Western Wall formed part of the retaining perimeter wall of this platform. Herod's Temple was destroyed by the Roman Empire, along with the rest of Jerusalem, in 70 CE, during the First Jewish-Roman War. [source

... why would you expect prayer at that location to be "much more special and pleasing to God"?

 

[Breathe]

A person shouldn't need icons to help them serve (or pray) to God. A person should be able to close his eyes and just talk to God and feel connected (even if you don't actually feel connected, which without prophecy, which doesn't exist today, can't really be achieved).

I can understand what you mean here. However, what about for those who cannot do that? I have met my fair share of people who feel they have to have something to focus on. In such a case where they only feel able to connect with God if they have something to focus on, would that be their own undoing?

I am aware Judaism does not have the same kind of afterlife as Islam and Christianity, also.

Speaking of afterlife, what do you believe happens to those who do not acknowledge the Noahide laws at the end of life? Anything?

Like the Kotel perhaps?

Yes, in some ways it could possibly be said that some use icons like that, which is why I was wondering how that is seen.

 

[Yanni]

Odion, this is where the fairness of God becomes so necessary in every aspect of life. God is a true and perfect Judge. He will only judge someone to the extent that the person was either aware of what he did wrong or if he was never taught the truth. For example, those who are born Jewish (because their mothers are Jewish) but had no knowledge what so ever of what the Torah is or what Judaism represents will be judged accordingly. God will not ask them, "Why didn't you keep Kosher? Why didn't you keep the Sabbath," if they NEVER really knew about these things. But if you have someone who has been exposed to the truth, either because he was raised that way and decided to rebel, or because he was learning about the truth and decided that he needed to take it slow, will be judged exactly according to their potential. God knows that for some people, keeping certain laws may be difficult. He loves each and every one of us. But God also doesn't ask anyone to do something that is beyond his/her potential. I have never been in heaven (yet), but those people who never knew about the Noahide laws will probably be judged mostly on their deeds during their lives (how they treated their families, friends, strangers; did they live moral lives, did they give charity, etc.). Trust me, I don't think ANYONE goes to hell so fast unless he is responsible for the deaths of many people. And hell is NOT permanent (except for those kinds of people). Hell is just a way to purify someone from his spiritual blemishes SO THAT he/she can experience eternal pleasure in the World to Come, which is beyond the scope of the human mind.

 

[Yanni]

As for your question regarding how non-Jews should relate to God by focusing on something, to be honest, I really am not sure. But I am sure that there is s good answer out there.

 

[Yanni]

Jayhawker, you're absolutely right. I made a mistake. God views prayer from anywhere in the world as precious and special. Thank you for correcting me.

 

[Breathe]

And hell is NOT permanent (except for those kinds of people).

Can you elaborate by what you mean by "for those kinds of people"?

Additionally, do you expect the world to come to be a paradisal time on Earth, or more like a place souls go to for their next life?

As for your question regarding how non-Jews should relate to God by focusing on something, to be honest, I really am not sure. But I am sure that there is s good answer out there.

I am sure there is. If anyone has any ideas, or if you find anything, please let me know.

 

[Starsoul]

To answer this question, let me mention a commandment in the Torah and in Halachah (Jewish law). For us Jews, it is absolutely forbidden to even have a graven image in ones home. It's not even in a worship setting, like a temple or a synagogue. It's even in one's home. Now the only reason that I know why we can't have these things (even statues of people for personal pleasure, i.e. decoration) is because these images have so long been connected with idolatry that even to own a statue would be problematic. Now, the only kind of statue we can't own is one that has FULL facial features, and if it's a full statue, all it's fingers (basically all it's limbs) as if it were a human. The reason why we don't have these things is because we are required to distance ourselves from the practices of the other religions (because like every religion, of course, we believe that we are the true religion) so that we don't resemble them or come to join them. (Please keep in mind my post above, about us NOT believing that non-Jews will all go to hell. I think we're unique in that we DON'T believe that if you're not a Jew, then you'll go to hell. That's why the Noahide laws are so special). A person shouldn't need icons to help them serve (or pray) to God. A person should be able to close his eyes and just talk to God and feel connected (even if you don't actually feel connected, which without prophecy, which doesn't exist today, can't really be achieved). What I mean is just the knowledge that God, the most Powerful Force in the Universe, is listening to you (I mean, you can't call the President of the United States whenever you want, can you?), should be enough of an "outlet" or "focal point" for you.

Interesting post. Welcome to the forums, we haven't really had an orthodox jew here to make things about jews very clear, the rest of the factions of jews, appear to believe differently, nothing much fundamental about it ( with no offense to anyone : ). I find the orthodox judaism quite interesting, do keep posting. Are you a rabbi by any chance?

 

[Yanni]

I am not a Rabbi, Starsoul. But I grew up in a very strong religious household (not like cavemen), but we always keep to our faith because it makes so much sense, as it always has for thousands of years since the time of Abraham. Why do you think there are still Orthodox Jews around today, anyway? Throughout all the persecutions we've been through; everyone has hated our way of life because most people want to live by their own agendas. But we have been stubborn and never gave up the faith of our forefathers.

 

[Yanni]

Odion, what I meant by "those kinds of people" are people like Hitler, Osama bin Ladin, and all the tyrants and genocidal thinkers and doers of history.
And yes, we believe that a Messiah will one day reveal himself to the world, in the Name of God, and end all suffering and illness and war, and we believe that the Holy Temple will one day be rebuilt on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, which will be a House of Worship for ALL nations. One point that I don't think ANYONE knows here is that when the Holy Temple stood, the Jews would bring offerings on our holiday called Succos for EVERY SINGLE NATION in the world, and we would pray for the well being of each of those nations, and those offerings would benefit those nations. We sometimes say that if the Romans and the Babylonians would have known how much they were benefiting from the Temple, they never would have destroyed it.
The whole world, at that time, will be united under the One God, HaShem (in Hebrew, that means "The Name", referring to God), and there will be peace among everybody, and all the secrets of history will be revealed to the world (like why things that seemed to be bad happened). Eventually, we will be transported to a celestial world, but first God's Kingship will be manifest throughout the world. He Himself will reveal Himself to the world. The world will not be totally destroyed by God. God doesn't like destroying things or people. What a time it will be.

 

[Flankerl]

And hell is NOT permanent (except for those kinds of people).

Oh i just have to ask. You've been dead lately and witnessed it?


Also hell? Seriously?

 

[Yanni]

Flankerl, our (at least my) Sages teach us certain things that CANNOT be questioned. When they teach us what they have to teach us, they say it with Divine inspiration. The Written Torah AND the Oral Torah are directly from Mount Sinai, and anyone who doesn't believe that is denying one of the 13 Principles of Faith that the Rambam set forth. So I don't have to experience it to know what to expect. When the Sages said thousands of years ago that there is not a single fish in the sea that only has scales, but no fins, they said that without any scientific technology in those days to back up their statement. So how can they know? Because Moses was told that by God at Mount Sinai when He dictated the Torah to him, which he subsequently taught to the whole nation numerous times.

 

[Flankerl]

Uhm the 13 principles teach us that we should live after the torah and listen to the prophets.
Yet nowhere in the whole torah we are being told that there even is a place like "hell". The term alone stinks of christianity.


Iam sorry but the sages may have been the sages but the torah is above the sages. Way above any sage. Even Rambam or Rashi.

 

[Yanni]

Uhm the 13 principles teach us that we should live after the torah and listen to the prophets.
Yet nowhere in the whole torah we are being told that there even is a place like "hell". The term alone stinks of christianity.


Iam sorry but the sages may have been the sages but the torah is above the sages. Way above any sage. Even Rambam or Rashi.

Yes, Flankerl. But how do think we know (at least the Orthodox) what Tefillin looks like, or what honoring one's father and mother constitutes, or what the 39 Forbidden Labors on the Sabbath are? Just the Written Torah alone cannot suffice, because we wouldn't know how to determine what the Torah really means. That's why we also have the Oral Torah, which, according to tradition, was also dictated to Moses by God at Mount Sinai. Unfortunately, thousands of years ago, Rabbi Judah the Prince realized that the Jews were at a point where they had forgotten the Oral Law (as passed down orally) and he decided it was a time to act for HaShem (God) and he contracted the Mishnah, which put all the laws of the Oral Torah into a concise format and which we have until this very day. Even then, after a few generations, the Mishnah became unclear, and we needed the Talmud to explain the Mishnah (why the Mishnah comes to its conclusions, the sources for those laws, which are from the Written Torah).
So you see, BOTH the Written and Oral Torah are necessary. We cannot have one without the other.
Hell, by the way, called "Geihinom"in Hebrew, IS mentioned in many of the earliest commentators, including Rambam and Rashi, and the Ramchal, and in virtually all the Mussar (ethics) books, which were all written by very holy men who got all their information from the Torah (bot Written and Oral). In fact, in Ethics of the Fathers (which is part of the Mishnah), it mentions Gehinnom. And since the Oral Torah is directly from Mount Sinai, it was God Himself Who mentioned Gehinnom/Hell. So, technically, Judaism first mentioned "hell;" maybe not the way the Christians view hell, (Judaism's view of hell is quite different."