What Really Happened? A Coup Attempt?

[Brickjectivity]

From that link I just provided:
"
The persons arrested have home addresses in:

• 37%: DC
• 25%: MD
• 11%: VA
• 15%: from other U.S. states
• 12%: Unknown

"

Interesting. This includes all arrests for several days. Yes the percentages add to 100% I checked.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

According to him and photos he produced in his presentation certain famous figures from antifa demonstrations also appeared in the storming of the capital...such as that guy with the bull horn hat and painted face.

His name is Jake something, he has been arrested, he is a Trump supporter and apparently known as the "Qanon shaman."
Reminds me when people claimed Sandy Hook and other tragedies had "actors who were at multiple events" and using this fallacy to claim they were either false flag operations or didn't happen at all.

 

[Stevicus]

If he had managed to get Pelosi, Schumer, Pence, and a few others, that would have decapitated the government. That seems to have been his goal.

That's one possible outcome, but I'm still wondering whether he was acting on his own volition, or if he was part of a coordinated effort or operating under someone's orders. He obviously came there prepared to do more than peacefully protest, but was it just a loose collection of lone nuts operating independently or was there some kind of grand plan or conspiracy?

 

[Windwalker]

It was definitely bad, but I think it would take a great deal more than a mob attacking the US Capitol to orchestrate any kind of coup against the United States. The rest of the Federal government, along with the military and state governments were all intact and operating. I don't know if there was any kind of coordination or grand plan behind all of this, or if it was all spontaneous. For example, the guy in riot gear and zip ties - was he operating under someone's orders or was he carrying out some bizarre plan on his own?

I took that guy in the video, along with the deliberate attempts to break down that door where the cop shot into crowd killing one of them, as very intentential to get down that secured hallway to get to those Senators, where cops were lined up with drawn guns. This was not just people breaking in and smashing stuff for protest. There was intent to physically reach the Senators. They wanted to break the door to get to them.

Someone was shot dead to prevent that, which you will see occur in that video I linked to in the OP. Watching that crowd creates a very dark view of what was really going on in there.

It was probably very poorly organized.... consideringing America doesn't have these very often. That doesn't mean there weren't characters riding on the backs of the riled masses with specific intents. I place the guy with the zip ties linked to that pool. I'd be willing to believe it goes to some in Congress itself.

 

[Brickjectivity]

His name is Jake something, he has been arrested, he is a Trump supporter and apparently known as the "Qanon shaman."
Reminds me when people claimed Sandy Hook and other tragedies had "actors who were at multiple events" and using this fallacy to claim they were either false flag operations or didn't happen at all.

Well I'll be darned.

 

[SomeRandom]

I took that guy in the video, along with the deliberate attempts to break down that door where the cop shot into crowd killing one of them, as very intentential to get down that secured hallway to get to those Senators, where cops were lined up with drawn guns. This was not just people breaking in and smashing stuff for protest. There was intent to physically reach the Senators. They wanted to break the door to get to them. Someone was shot dead to prevent that.

It was probably very poorly organized.... consideringing America doesn't have these very often. That doesn't mean there weren't character riding on the backs of the riled masses with specific intents. I'd be will to believe it goes to some in Congress itself.

I think there was (or is) a website called “Trump dot win.”
I’ll see if I can track down the source (a lot of pro trump sites have since been “purged” apparently) but there were posts detailing specific politicians and their details. And thinly veiled “instructions” for people attending the insurrection thing.
So I mean I think there were some who wanted to take hostages. I can’t be certain, though. Maybe they were trolling. Hope they were trolling more like. Sheesh!

 

[Windwalker]

Let's say that they were role playing, didn't really intend
to execute the politicians, & were just pretending.
As Kurt Vonnegut said....
“We are what we pretend to be, so we must
be careful about what we pretend to be.”

That's an interesting suggestion. Watching the guy in the video, that was some serious acting skills there for a role player. The Great Horned Idiot (the new symbol of the Trumpian party), looks like a role player. Not so much some of the others. Killers amongst the clowns, seems more the mix of what all was there.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

However, whatever they might have managed to do, the U.S. military would not have supported it. So there is no possible coup attempt that could ever succeeded. None. It's simply not possible at this time in our history.

I agree, but I also think we do not want to put that theory to the test. If that happens things have gone much too far.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's an interesting suggestion. Watching the guy in the video, that was some serious acting skills there for a role player. The Great Horned Idiot (the new symbol of the Trumpian party), looks like a role player. Not so much some of the others. Killers amongst the clowns, seems more the mix of what all was there.

Their intent is irrelevant.
Violent sedition is what they
do, & defines who they are.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I don't think any of these people had the remotest idea what they were doing, or any kind of plan. All they did when they succeeded - to their surprise - in breaking in, was to sit in people's chairs, pinch bits of furniture and take selfies to show back home. I think they were (are) essentially weak-minded fantasists with no idea how you take over a government.

So I see it as a sort of rather directionless sub-coup attempt. I have no doubt at all that if it had been really organised, there would have been a great deal more damage, perhaps the lynching of representatives, the pre-planned co-opting of like-minded police (of whom there seem to have been a number), probably speeches to the media about what they were doing and why, etc. Just look at any real coup attempt to see the sort of thing that is done.

Yes and no. Some clearly had plans to storm the building - and do what after that, who knows. Part of the reason they didn’t know what they would do is simply because they didn’t know what Mike Pence would do. So it appears largely leaderless (not surprising since Trump is no brilliant planner) but it was by no means spontaneous either. It was planned for weeks and they showed up in combat gear.

The tens of thousands of ordinary Karens who cheered on the crazies may not have had a plan, but they were whipped up enough to enable and support those who did. They were play-acting at revolution and were exalted when the pretend became real.

Regarding those meandering around taking selfies ... is that because they had no intention of doing anything? Or is that because, finding the House and Senate chambers and Pelosi’s office empty of Senators and Representatives to handcuff and hang, there was nothing left to do?

I am confident American democracy will win. But as I keep saying: do not underestimate these people or we will have more tragedies.

 

[sun rise]

Their intent is irrelevant.
Violent sedition is what they
do, & defines who they are.

Except in a court of law.

I'll leave the specific crimes to the legal profession. Riot? Insurrection? I really don't care. What I care about is the bad actors in the GOP who are even now lying, censuring honorable Republicans and doing more and more damage.

 

[Revoltingest]

Except in a court of law.

Intent might or might matter in court.
Sometimes the behavior determines all.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It was definitely bad, but I think it would take a great deal more than a mob attacking the US Capitol to orchestrate any kind of coup against the United States. The rest of the Federal government, along with the military and state governments were all intact and operating. I don't know if there was any kind of coordination or grand plan behind all of this, or if it was all spontaneous. For example, the guy in riot gear and zip ties - was he operating under someone's orders or was he carrying out some bizarre plan on his own?

Its just mob rule and not a real coup. That would be far too complementary. Lunatic fringe in other words is much more suitable.

To pull off a coup effectively, one would require a great deal of logistics, planning, and a proper command and structure. Something only an organized army or government backed group would be able to accomplish.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'd call it a "coup lite".

 

[Windwalker]

Their intent is irrelevant.
Violent sedition is what they
do, & defines who they are.

Their intent is relevant if amongst them there were there those with a specific intent for assasination. That as opposed to just violent mob mentality. I think that's the deeper question, and what the video, and other material I have been reading is exposing us to. If their intent was murder, that ratchets up the charges a level higher, I would suppose.

 

[SomeRandom]

Their intent is relevant if amongst them there were there those with a specific intent for assasination. That as opposed to just violent mob mentality. I think that's the deeper question, and what the video, and other material I have been reading is exposing us to. If their intent was murder, that ratchets up the charges a level higher, I would suppose.

You know, these jackasses live streamed this whole thing. I guess so they have something to show the judges, I dunno.
You could probably find unaltered footage (or at least people reacting to the footage) on twitch. Though I only watched it in bits because damn some of those streams were like over 6 hours long.

 

[Father Heathen]

Well I'll be darned.

It turned out it be exactly what it looked like. What a shock.

 

[fantome profane]

Its just mob rule and not a real coup. That would be far too complementary. Lunatic fringe in other words is much more suitable.

To pull off a coup effectively, one would require a great deal of logistics, planning, and a proper command and structure. Something only an organized army or government backed group would be able to accomplish.

I'd call it a "coup lite".

A failed coup is still a coup. Don’t dismiss the seriousness of this just because some of those involved looked like idiots. What would have happened if they actually caught a Senator or Representative, or a Vice President? Would they have been taken hostage or executed? That very nearly happened.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Its just mob rule and not a real coup. That would be far too complementary. Lunatic fringe in other words is much more suitable.

To pull off a coup effectively, one would require a great deal of logistics, planning, and a proper command and structure. Something only an organized army or government backed group would be able to accomplish.

I'd call it a "coup lite".

A failed coup is still a coup. Don’t dismiss the seriousness of this just because some of those involved looked like idiots. What would have happened if they actually caught a Senator or Representative, or a Vice President? Would they have been taken hostage or executed? That very nearly happened.

The problem is that the ordinary words we use to describe despicable acts usually imply a high degree of intelligence was behind them.

Words like “crime”, and “corruption”, and “coup”, or even “Russian plant”.

It’s hard to imagine Donald Trump being behind any of these things until you realize, stupid people can do them, too.

This was a Donald Trump coup in the same way that there was a Donald Trump university. It was real. It was comical. It also seriously hurt people.

 

[fantome profane]

The problem is that the ordinary words we use to describe despicable acts usually imply a high degree of intelligence was behind them.

Words like “crime”, and “corruption”, and “coup”, or even “Russian plant”.

It’s hard to imagine Donald Trump being behind any of these things until you realize, stupid people can do them, too.

This was a Donald Trump coup in the same way that there was a Donald Trump university. It was real. It was comical. It also seriously hurt people.

the banality of evil.