What say the scriptures?

[e.r.m.]

1"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. "

This verse mentions baptism, but like the Acts 19:5 reverse I cited earlier, it does not state a purpose.

 

[e.r.m.]

Mark 1:8, John said, 'I indeed have baptized you with water: but he [Christ] shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit.'

There is no purpose stated here, and it does not make reference to baptism in Jesus's name, which is in water acts 10:47-48.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This might be a difficult question to answer:

What do the written scriptures say is the (or a) purpose of baptism in Jesus's name? Specifically, what do the texts say?

Baptism is a symbol as Spirit, water and fire are mentioned.

By “spirit” is meant divine grace, by “water” is meant knowledge and life and by “fire” is meant the love of God.

The outward practice was started by John to prepare people for Christ. Jesus approved the practice for that dispensation. The importance is the the spiritual meaning practiced, the material practice does not mean one has partaken of the spiritual.

Regards Tony

 

[leov]

This verse mentions baptism, but like the Acts 19:5 reverse I cited earlier, it does not state a purpose.

mikva is a form of baptism, then submerging under water of John is different as common submerging now days and submerging in fire is metaphoric, is not it? Paul addressed it as elementary, i.e. 'milk' of the word and suggested to move on.

 

[74x12]

U 9
Would you mind stating the verse and thank you in advance.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. "

Right, Hebrews was written to those who were baptized already and they needed to learn more and grow more. It's not written to sinners or new converts. They still need to do it. That's elementary teachings of Jesus Christ. Such as in John 3:3-5. You must be born again.

 

[e.r.m.]

Baptism is a symbol as Spirit, water and fire are mentioned.

By “spirit” is meant divine grace, by “water” is meant knowledge and life and by “fire” is meant the love of God.

The outward practice was started by John to prepare people for Christ. Jesus approved the practice for that dispensation. The importance is the the spiritual meaning practiced, the material practice does not mean one has partaken of the spiritual.

Regards Tony

Thank you. What about baptism in Jesus's name which began after Jesus's resurrection, and was a different baptism than John's? What is the scripturally stated purpose for that?

 

[e.r.m.]

mikva is a form of baptism, then submerging under water of John is different as common submerging now days and submerging in fire is metaphoric, is not it? Paul addressed it as elementary, i.e. 'milk' of the word and suggested to move on.

That's a lot of good information on baptism but it doesn't provide a "get baptized for the purpose of..." .

 

[e.r.m.]

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Right, Hebrews was written to those who were baptized already and they needed to learn more and grow more. It's not written to sinners or new converts. They still need to do it. That's elementary teachings of Jesus Christ. Such as in John 3:3-5. You must be born again.

Thank you, The Acts 2 passage does state a purpose. So, so far we have Romans 6:3-4 and Acts 2:38 as stated purposes. Any more?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Thank you. What about baptism in Jesus's name which began after Jesus's resurrection, and was a different baptism than John's? What is the scripturally stated purpose for that?

I see Jesus, by submitting to that Baptism by John also confirmed that practice would continue as long as Christianity remained the current Covenant of God.

Regards Tony

 

[leov]

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Right, Hebrews was written to those who were baptized already and they needed to learn more and grow more. It's not written to sinners or new converts. They still need to do it. That's elementary teachings of Jesus Christ. Such as in John 3:3-5. You must be born again.

Repent in Greek, is not exactly the same as in English, 'metanola' means stop doing it wrong way, start doing it right and do not come back to old way, no guilt is involved, just change to correct way.

 

[Redemptionsong]

There is no purpose stated here, and it does not make reference to baptism in Jesus's name, which is in water acts 10:47-48.

What you have overlooked is Acts 11:15-18 - Peter's recollection of the events of 10:47-48.

In this second passage, Peter recalls the purpose of the baptism of Jesus, which is to bestow 'Christ in you' [the Holy Spirit] as a result of believing on the Lord Jesus.

 

[e.r.m.]

What you have overlooked is Acts 11:15-18 - Peter's recollection of the events of 10:47-48.

In this second passage, Peter recalls the purpose of the baptism of Jesus, which is to bestow 'Christ in you' [the Holy Spirit] as a result of believing on the Lord Jesus.

Thank you.
Acts 11:15-18 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. [16] Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. [17] Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? [18] When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Are you saying baptism with the Holy Spirit bestows the Holy Spirit on people? Because the Baptism with the Holy Spirit done by Jesus is not baptism in Jesus's name done in water Acts 10:47-48.

 

[e.r.m.]

I see Jesus, by submitting to that Baptism by John also confirmed that practice would continue as long as Christianity remained the current Covenant of God.

Regards Tony

Nope.
Acts 18:24-26 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. [25] This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. [26] And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

Acts 19:2-5
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. [3] And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. [4] Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. [5] When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

It's not the same.

 

[exchemist]

This might be a difficult question to answer:

What do the written scriptures say is the (or a) purpose of baptism in Jesus's name? Specifically, what do the texts say?

Well there is Matthew 28:19

Christ commands the disciples to make disciples of all nations, by baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy spirit, and by teaching them his commands. So that seems, fairly clearly, to be the purpose of it, though the exact function of the ritual is not made explicit.

 

[e.r.m.]

Well there is Matthew 28:19

Christ commands the disciples to make disciples of all nations, by baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy spirit, and by teaching them his commands. So that seems, fairly clearly, to be the purpose of it, though the exact function of the ritual is not made explicit.

Are you saying the baptizing makes them into disciples/learners?

 

[exchemist]

Are you saying the baptizing makes them into disciples/learners?

No. I'm just answering your question to the best of my ability. You can make what you like out of this verse.

 

[e.r.m.]

No. I'm just answering your question to the best of my ability. You can make what you like out of this verse.

Thank you for answering my question to the best of your ability. I did not mean my question as a cross examining, just as a clarification. But I will say I do not get the purpose that you are alluding to, sorry.

 

[leov]

That's a lot of good information on baptism but it doesn't provide a "get baptized for the purpose of..." .

Nope.
Acts 18:24-26 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. [25] This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. [26] And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

Acts 19:2-5
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. [3] And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. [4] Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. [5] When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

It's not the same.

21"Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heavens were opened, 22and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son;c with you I am well pleased.”
16"And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son,d with whom I am well pleased.” Baptism of John was inducing NDE by slu16And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him,c and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son,d with whom I am well pleased.” slightly delaying letting up from the water. Kind of momentary visiting spirit world. Sin means not knowing the right way (see Strong's), by NDE sin - ignorance of spirit world was removed, which misconstrued into remission of sins.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Nope.
Acts 18:24-26 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. [25] This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. [26] And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

Acts 19:2-5
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. [3] And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. [4] Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. [5] When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

It's not the same.

That confirms what was offered.

I see you brought preconceived understanding to the discussion.

You did not ask clarification, the glass is full.

Regards Tony

 

[74x12]

Thank you, The Acts 2 passage does state a purpose. So, so far we have Romans 6:3-4 and Acts 2:38 as stated purposes. Any more?

It's about doing away with sins. For example in 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 we find that the children of Israel going through the Red Sea was a type of baptism. So that means Pharaoh and his army are a type of sin or guilt coming to capture and drag people back to Egypt which is their former sinful lives. (Which is why God says not to return to Egypt.)

But baptism is supposed to do away with that guilt as the Red Sea did away with Pharaoh and the army of Egypt. Also we know even the color red is associated with sin in Isaiah 1:18. So it's fitting it was the Red Sea.

This is why Peter makes it clear that baptism isn't about washing the body but the conscience. And he compares baptism to when Noah and his family were saved in the ark.

1 Peter 3:20-21
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Then as pointed out with the passage from Romans; even Jesus must be talking about water baptism when He says "born of the water" in John 3:3-5. This means when people come out of the water it is like being born anew from the water and shows they plan to live a life as if free from their old sins.

And so freeing people from sin and giving them a heart that is repentant; water baptism prepares people for the baptism that only Jesus can give which is the baptism of the holy Spirit.