What the Heck is Going on in France with the Burkini??

[George-ananda]

This picture and article just floored me.

Birkini Illegal


I don't see how France can consider themselves one of the 'free' countries of the world (maybe they don't want to be anymore). They allow scores of Muslims to legally immigrate to their country and then they deny them the freedom of dress that infringes on no one else!?

I am very interested to hear from anyone that agrees with this policy.

Coincidentally, last night I happened to read about actress Brigitte Bardot having been charged with an 'inciting hate' crime for saying things regarding Muslims that would just be within the normal range of free speech debate in the USA.

 

[jonathan180iq]

I am very interested to hear from anyone that agrees with this policy.

Religious conviction or not, they are taking aim at what their society deems to be an oppressed view of women. They have the right to do so, as it is their country, after all.

They have created the government and implemented the value system that they think best represents them. Making women cover their bodies because of ideologies that existed 1400 years ago is not part of that value system.

More power to them. Part of the joy of going to the beach is seeing female flesh, am I right?

I didn't have a problem respecting the moderate dress culture of Saudi Arabia when I was there. They shouldn't have a problem respecting the liberal dress culture of a nation that's hosting them.

(Arresting people for wearing too much clothing is a bit absurd, I agree. But I'm playing Devil's advocate here.)

Also:

Remember when this was risque for women to wear in America?

 

[George-ananda]

(Arresting people for wearing too much clothing is a bit absurd, I agree. But I'm playing Devil's advocate here.)

Well I am going to play the Devil's advocate to your Devil's advocate. In a free country, the government does not determine social convention and force compliance in regards to dress.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I don't see how France can consider themselves one of the 'free' countries of the world (maybe they don't want to be anymore). They allow scores of Muslims to legally immigrate to their country and then they deny them the freedom of dress that infringes on no one else!?

I am very interested to hear from anyone that agrees with this policy.

Coincidentally, last night I happened to read about actress Brigitte Bardot having been charged with an 'inciting hate' crime for saying things regarding Muslims that would just be within the normal range of free speech debate in the USA.

I'm partial to Bill Warner's view of the situation. He's very convincing. Islam is not strictly a religion but is more like a political system with a religious aspect. It opposes the French politic and captures land in France. Blocking the burkini is a political decision to keep France French. In other words the political arm of Islam has pushed and the French are pushing back. Notice that in Australia its now illegal to criticize people based on their religion? Notice how in the UK there are areas where non-Muslims can't go yet that are paid for by taxes? Well the French don't want their beaches to become like that. Apparently they are concerned about it.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Well I am going to play the Devil's advocate to your Devil's advocate. In a free country, the government does not determine social convention and force compliance in regards to dress.

Technically, that's exactly what a free government does. A democratic society is exactly what you say it isn't, determining shared social conventions and forcing compliance in regards to all kinds of things, public decency (or lack thereof) included.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This picture and article just floored me.

Birkini Illegal


I don't see how France can consider themselves one of the 'free' countries of the world (maybe they don't want to be anymore). They allow scores of Muslims to legally immigrate to their country and then they deny them the freedom of dress that infringes on no one else!?

I am very interested to hear from anyone that agrees with this policy.

Coincidentally, last night I happened to read about actress Brigitte Bardot having been charged with an 'inciting hate' crime for saying things regarding Muslims that would just be within the normal range of free speech debate in the USA.

I think it's pretty clear what's going on: to stop themselves from becoming a country where the government tells people what to believe and women how to dress, they've decided to tell people what to believe and women how to dress.

 

[Jumi]

The ban started with a couple of events like this:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37077837

Apparently families of women in burkinis objected to tourists taking pictures on a beach and attempted to attack them with axes and harpoons. Things escalated from there.

 

[columbus]

The ban started with a couple of events like this:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37077837

Apparently families of women in burkinis objected to tourists taking pictures on a beach and attempted to attack them with axes and harpoons. Things escalated from there.

This cannot possibly be true. Islam is the religion of Peace.
Tom

 

[George-ananda]

I'm partial to Bill Warner's view of the situation. He's very convincing. Islam is not strictly a religion but is more like a political system with a religious aspect. It opposes the French politic and captures land in France. Blocking the burkini is a political decision to keep France French. In other words the political arm of Islam has pushed and the French are pushing back. Notice that in Australia its now illegal to criticize people based on their religion? Notice how in the UK there are areas where non-Muslims can't go yet that are paid for by taxes? Well the French don't want their beaches to become like that. Apparently they are concerned about it.

Do you agree with the Burkini law?

 

[George-ananda]

Technically, that's exactly what a free government does. A democratic society is exactly what you say it isn't, determining shared social conventions and forcing compliance in regards to all kinds of things, public decency (or lack thereof) included.

What do you think of the Burkini law specifically?

 

[George-ananda]

The ban started with a couple of events like this:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37077837

Apparently families of women in burkinis objected to tourists taking pictures on a beach and attempted to attack them with axes and harpoons. Things escalated from there.

Well that is a separate issue and doesn't justify banning the burkini..

 

[Skwim]

"Aug 13, 2016
The court said the ban was legal under a law which prohibits people neglecting common rules on "relations between public authorities and private individuals" on the basis of religion.

The judge noted the ban came "in the context of the state of emergency and recent Islamist attacks, notably in Nice a month ago".

France is on high alert following a series of incidents including July's truck attack in nearby Nice.

Anyone caught breaking the new rule could face a fine of €38 (£33)[$42.80]. They will first be asked to change into another swimming costume or leave the beach.

Nobody has been apprehended for wearing a burkini in Cannes since the edict came into force at the end of July."
source
​

Personally, I find the burkini and insult to all other "kinis."

Showing lots of skin is what wearing a "kini" is all about. Showing next to no skin simply doesn't qualify, and denigrates all those who wear their "kini" with pride.

Burkini's should not only be banned from all beaches everywhere, but the named consigned to the Urinal Hot Drink Trash Bin of Exceedingly Badly Named Products.

.​

 

[jonathan180iq]

What do you think of the Burkini law specifically?

Personally, it's a little heavy handed. I should be able to wear whatever I want wherever I want, like a boss.

Culturally, though, I don't have a problem with it. That whole religious principle is a vestige of an ancient ideology that needs to go the way of the dodo bird.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Do you agree with the Burkini law?

I probably would agree if I were French. That is close enough.

 

[George-ananda]

Personally, it's a little heavy handed.

So if you were to vote Yes/No on the law you would vote 'No'? If so, then we are in agreement.

I should be able to wear whatever I want wherever I want, like a boss.

Well we should be boss over our own swimwear.

Culturally, though, I don't have a problem with it. That whole religious principle is a vestige of an ancient ideology that needs to go the way of the dodo bird.

Oh but that is not a multi-culturist attitude. Perhaps the better policy might be not allowing immigration to people of cultures considered incompatible with French culture. Don't get me wrong. I am not a fan of Islamic culture.

 

[George-ananda]

I probably would agree if I were French. That is close enough.

OK, you are one of the supporters of the law I was hoping to hear from.

What gives people the right to tell that woman how much flesh needs to be revealed to be legal on a beach? Do you believe in freedom in France? At least Saudi Arabia and Iran acknowledge they are Islamic countries and thereby restrict certain freedoms.

 

[Scott C.]

This picture and article just floored me.

Birkini Illegal


I don't see how France can consider themselves one of the 'free' countries of the world (maybe they don't want to be anymore). They allow scores of Muslims to legally immigrate to their country and then they deny them the freedom of dress that infringes on no one else!?

I am very interested to hear from anyone that agrees with this policy.

Coincidentally, last night I happened to read about actress Brigitte Bardot having been charged with an 'inciting hate' crime for saying things regarding Muslims that would just be within the normal range of free speech debate in the USA.

It's ridiculous that they will not let women dress according to their faith. I don't know if they think they're doing the women a favor by "liberating" them from a restrictive religion. In any case, it is a bizarre law and shows disregard for freedom of religion.

 

[McBell]

This picture and article just floored me.

Birkini Illegal


I don't see how France can consider themselves one of the 'free' countries of the world (maybe they don't want to be anymore). They allow scores of Muslims to legally immigrate to their country and then they deny them the freedom of dress that infringes on no one else!?

I am very interested to hear from anyone that agrees with this policy.

Coincidentally, last night I happened to read about actress Brigitte Bardot having been charged with an 'inciting hate' crime for saying things regarding Muslims that would just be within the normal range of free speech debate in the USA.

I cannot help but wonder why it is so difficult to get a copy of the actual law/bill/amendment/whatever.....

 

[McBell]

What do you think of the Burkini law specifically?

Do you agree with the Burkini law?

No idea.
I have not been able to read the law.
All I can find are news articles making claim after claim of the law.

 

[Flankerl]

The city of Nice made it illegal to dress in a Burkini at their beach. Quite simple actually.

You have the same kind of rules at Nudist beaches where its generally not allowed to wear bathing suits. You also get in problems with the Police if you don't abide with the rules there.

Also she was probably given two choices: Leave the beach or abide by the rules.