What the Heck is Going on in France with the Burkini??

[Nyingjé Tso]

Vanakkam

I am against what is happening and VERY ashamed as a French about it.
We are giving the terrorists aaaaall the excuses and propanganda they need to recruit more with those kind of far right stupidity.

It's absolutely, utterly shameful.

Maybe I should try going to the beach completely naked with a piece of cloth covering my hair, just to see

(And also to **** the cops ans rascists idiots)

Aum Namah Shivaya

 

[Twilight Hue]

I had to look up burkini and, it's not from what I see, anything all that intimidating or oppressive. Its actually looks like a comfortable, tasteful, and colorful article of clothing. Not to mention a good protection for sunburn.

I know France has legitimate issues but I don't get it in this particular regard and local.

 

[Revoltingest]

That happened, and Jews wore them. You have a problem with yellow stars?

I prefer plaid stars.

What about when French children are forced to love their country and language? Why aren't you crying out against that oppression?

I have only so much resistance to oppression within me.
I'm at my empathy limit already today.

 

[Skwim]

She looks like a person just wearing clothing on a beach. I think it's outrageous that 1) She's not allowed to wear whatever she is comfortable in (which turns out to just be a head scarf, leggings and a tunic) and 2) They made her strip some of her clothes off.

As the ban reads, she had the option of not removing her burkini and receiving a citation or leaving. The option is like, "Move your car from the Emergency Vehicle Only parking zone or you'll get a ticket and we'll move it for you." And while I feel the stated reason for the ban is ridiculous, a lot of bans and laws are.

And I don't see how this is all that different from forcing a woman to wear a hijab or a burka, or anything at all, really.

I guess that would fall under the class of religious requirements. Don't want to follow a religion's dress codes then maybe you should pick a different religion. Unless, that is, you're talking about places like Saudi Arabia where all women, regardless of their religion, are, as I understand it, required to wear an abaya.


Truthfully, I believe the ban was created because it offended the French sensibility of allure. French beaches are impromptu scenes for cheerfully, sometimes even enthusiastically, bared flesh, and if you want to join in the action don't wear anything that will spoil the picture. I think the French regard anyone in a burkini on a beach like a pimple on the face of a beauty contestant. Either pop the pimple or get off the stage.



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[columbus]

I know France has legitimate issues but I don't get it in this particular regard and local.

I am not French, but this doesn't seem that complex to me.
French culture is under assault. Muslims want to benefit from it, when it suits them. Change, confront, even violently oppose it when it doesn't.

This law is the cultural equivalent of passive aggression. Rather like putting pork in school lunches.

Pretending that the problem is the French is to invite the passive aggression to morph into active aggression.

Tom

 

[George-ananda]

I do not agree with the policy. Were I a lawmaker in France, I would presumably not vote for it.

But it is the law, and it is a respectable law.

I am going to say something that a lot of people who are European want to say but usually feel that they cannot say: You do not get to dictate what Europeans do,and you do not get to make Europeans bad for standing up for European values. This is France, not Saudi Arabia. France gets to demand a certain minimum standard of public decency, even if that does not comport with Islamist norms, which are among the most indecent in the world.

European values are better than Islamic values. Yup, you heard that right. At a minimum, Europeans feel that they are. And I agree: They're worth defending. We should not apologize for it any more. And I'm not going to, and I hope others don't. If Muslims want to have an Islamist pride parade, they can do it in Mecca.

I guess as an American I was stunned that France could or would do that! We know how they love to bash America every chance they get. Now I'm bashing them back. It seems personal freedoms are not protected nearly as well in France as in the U.S..

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

Vanakkam:

Just to add a précision, it is not a national law that applies everywhere. I don't know the équivalent un english for the word, but basically it's local to the PACA région (cannes, Nice...) ans those are (generally) temporary laws that are voted by the local authorities ( like mayor of the city, council etc...) ans are applied in the area of a city or a locality.

Doesn't excuse anything at all, just adding a précision as it is not a law and it's only applied un some areas

Aum Namah Shivaya

 

[Vinayaka]

Personally, I think its silly, and far more likely to rile the bees even more. There are plenty of beaches on this planet where you can see all conditions of dress. In Mauritius, which has a high French (and other European) tourist industry as well as a 17% Muslim population, you saw all kinds of swimsuits on the beaches, burkinis included. Everyone just ignored everyone else and their choices. Most beaches on this planet are like that.

 

[McBell]

Must be terrible for a scuba diver in France too.

It is not the wet suit that makes a diver "scuba"...
Just saying.

 

[psychoslice]

If you got it, show it, if you haven't, then hide it.

 

[Jumi]

Wow! I think the citation is probably legal, but I think these police may be sued if it is proven that they didn't give these women the choice to leave the beach. If they are giving them the choice to leave that is one thing, and if they are making them strip regardless that is another. Its not clear in the video.

I think this is a case of overzealous police, it's being investigated already.

 

[Skwim]

Gotta wonder if one would be allowed to wear a bikini on the beaches of Saudi Arabia.

Checking five beach resorts in the country through Google Images,

Mövenpick Beach Resort Al Khobar Saudi Arabia

Makarem Annakheel Villa Saudi Arabia

Durrah Beach Resort Saudi Arabia

Sunset Beach Resort Saudi Arabia

Silver Sand Beach Saudi Arabia
​

not only did any of them fail to show a woman in a bikini, none of them showed even a single woman at the beach. It's as if women don't exist in Saudi Arabia.


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​

 

[Spiderman]

I'm partial to Bill Warner's view of the situation. He's very convincing. Islam is not strictly a religion but is more like a political system with a religious aspect. It opposes the French politic and captures land in France. Blocking the burkini is a political decision to keep France French. In other words the political arm of Islam has pushed and the French are pushing back. Notice that in Australia its now illegal to criticize people based on their religion? Notice how in the UK there are areas where non-Muslims can't go yet that are paid for by taxes? Well the French don't want their beaches to become like that. Apparently they are concerned about it.

Well said

 

[Oculus]

If the Muslims don't like it they can get the hell out of Europe and return to their countries of origin, which is unlikely since they came to Europe to milk the socialist t*t.

If they had an ounce of class they'd clean up their own countries instead of feeding off the largesse of countries who have made the effort to improve themselves.

 

[SkylarHunter]

As a French resident there are tons of other things I'm a lot more worried about. If people want to go to the beach all covered I find it ridiculous but it's their choice. I think this story is being blown out of proportion and being used to distract people from the things that really matter.

 

[Akivah]

They're similar to Saudi Arabia, one forcing to wear and the other forcing to take off.

Wow! Mark this on your calendars. I actually agree with FearGod. France is displaying such a bizarre twist on "freedom". They are forcing women to show more skin??! Will they also apply this law against a woman wearing a long dress like a muumuu?

I think skin should only be forced when there is a security reason, like getting a face picture for identification or some such.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I had to look up burkini and, it's not from what I see, anything all that intimidating or oppressive. Its actually looks like a comfortable, tasteful, and colorful article of clothing. Not to mention a good protection for sunburn.

I know France has legitimate issues but I don't get it in this particular regard and local.

It looks kind of like a wet suit to me.

 

[Skwim]

I'm partial to Bill Warner's view of the situation. He's very convincing. Islam is not strictly a religion but is more like a political system with a religious aspect. It opposes the French politic and captures land in France. Blocking the burkini is a political decision to keep France French. In other words the political arm of Islam has pushed and the French are pushing back. Notice that in Australia its now illegal to criticize people based on their religion? Notice how in the UK there are areas where non-Muslims can't go yet that are paid for by taxes? Well the French don't want their beaches to become like that. Apparently they are concerned about it.

Excellent point. A country doesn't have to become something it doesn't want to be simply because some people want it that way, or at least by their actions would push it that way. This isn't to say that burkini wearing women at French beaches are consciously trying to turn France into a Muslimish country, but any acceptance of their customs would tend to change the cultural and perhaps political nature of France. If the French wish to keep the culture of the country free of Muslim influence I believe they have every right to do so.

Perhaps this is not politically correct, after all, the broad cultural nature of the USA has been formed by many diverse foreign elements---the melting pot phenomenon--- which makes it rather unique in the world. However, most all other countries have very old, well established, singular cultural identities, and I can understand them wanting to keep it that way.


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[FearGod]

Wow! Mark this on your calendars. I actually agree with FearGod. France is displaying such a bizarre twist on "freedom". They are forcing women to show more skin??! Will they also apply this law against a woman wearing a long dress like a muumuu?

I think skin should only be forced when there is a security reason, like getting a face picture for identification or some such.

This should be banned in France as well.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

What a lot of posturing USians! The French have a tradition of laïcité which they value very highly. The fact that you don't share it or understand it is unlikely to upset them. You, on the other hand, are obsessed with freedom of speech to an extent that mystifies French and Britons. But ask a USian whether he agrees with making racist abuse in public illegal, as it is in most of Europe, and the result may vary with their race.

Wearing so-called Islamic dress is making a statement, rejecting the culture in which one lives (and from which one profits). If these people don't agree with French traditions, why are they there? And to any USians who want to preach the virtues of multiculturalism, I suggest they look at the US "culture wars", not to mention the level of racism in the USA.