What tools or mediums does God use to create the universe?

[dybmh]

I hope I'm getting this!

Yes, I think you're gettting it.

The articulation seems to be where the action is that gives existence actuality. An infinite pool of potentialities til will makes them actualities.

Yes, that's the last phase and is where the "will of God" in the form of "natural laws" or "forces of nature" are happening.

Although, there is no "until". From a temporal perspective, a human perspective, future events are considered potential until they become actual. But, that model doesn't work for a god which is eternal. And eternal is a consequence of being absolutely literally infinite. And this launches into a discussion of free-will, and how that works, but, I'd rather not get distracted with that.

So, again, "will" is disconnected from the creative process in all ways other than the binary, create or not. There is also an uncreation process, but that is more complicated and I don't want to get distracted with that either.

This formless state contains information of form unexpressed until the disconnected will activates it in the on position of recalling to express it thus giving it form in actuality?

The two problems here, imo, are the words "until" and postulating anything prior to the will to create. If God is absolutely infinite, and is the only creator of evverything else, then, the amorphous formless "lexicon" of absolutely every form is possessed by it in some manner. And it can be considered a recall. But, I don't think it can be said whether "will" is activating the recall. All that can be said is there a choice to create, but anything before that, is on the other side of a veil.

The lexicon is representative of the forms and is amorphous until expressed? Or are we talking about the formation of actual words being amorphous in the mind?

It's amorphous, because the "lexicon" is itself infinite. As the number of entries is approaching infinity, the the differences between each of the entries becomes less and less significant. It's like zooming out and the details become washed out. Once infinity is acheived all the details are completely washed out. And, because it' infinite, it's growing in all directions. That produces a lexicon, or a "memory" that is a formless, growing, blob. A conglomerate. But, when an individual entry is recalled, then the infinite quanity of the conglomerate is "broken", for lack of a better word. And the process is reversing. The details start out as virtually insignificant, it's a general idea, and then the idea gets developed. That's the creative process.

Why do you choose the word crown?

I didn't choose that. That's traditionally how it is described in Hebrew. It's easy, I think, to see why that would be desirable for a god that is a divine law giving executive, aka, a monarch.

 

[dybmh]

The infinite pool is then key. The simultaneity and constant on/off expressions give it existence and actuality. On is expressed form, and off is non expressed form and the infinite pool is the endless available information of form.

One of the reasons, I think you've balked at the idea of "will" imagined as a a crown, is that you have advanced into the metaphor further than I described. Hopefully you'll recall in the lengthy description, I mentioned that this happens. It just keeps going. The metaphor, honestly never ends. But, it does repeat. But not in a circle, more like a spiral. But there is a part of it that is looping, but more like a pendulum at the end. Anyways.

For the description you brought that is flipping on and off and that is producing the forms. Just to be clear, that's not "will". Or at least, that's not exactly how I would describe it, but, I think it can be described that way dependiing the point of view. If one zooms way way out, big picture, creation is an ongoing expression of God's will. That's it. But, there is no "off" button. There is no oscillation, no flipping on and off. It is just pure on-going expression of "will". And, there's also "will" which is simultaneously not being expressed that is happening behind the scenes. That's the completely zooomed out bird's eye perspective. Not very exciting. God's will is on-going, if it did flip to the "off" postion, it's "lights out" for everyone and everything except for God.

OK, so hold that in your mind as a necessary condtion: God's will doesn't flip to off. However, one can zoom in on the creative process, IF, it is slowed down and broken out into a sequence. Doing so, there is a chain of "wills" each one refining creation, more and more and more. Each of these "wills" can act as a toggle, making a choice, create or not. And that might look like what you've described. Maybe. And the forms are becoming more and more refined with each consecutive "will" in the chain.

And the chain is being linked together with a version of will which takes on a quality of outer-inner, outer-inner, outer-inner, because it's like links in a chain, with an outer link and an inner link, or a spiral which is curling inward. But this inner-outer dynamic of links is broken and disconnected at the very top of the chain. It stops at the "will" to create. This is why I wrote at the top of this reply, that the articulation, which is the last stage in the creative process, is in fact "The will of God" in the form of "the natural laws" and "forces of nature". The last stage in the creative process is a reflection of the first stage in the creative process. It's another pairing, but it's top-to-bottom pairing instead of binary on/off. I'll highlight this again further down.

So, there is a chain of will after will after will, which is articualting, articulating, articulating, I think it's important to remember that while it is spiraling, and refining, and it IS a version of "will" more and more and more, simultaneously, at the top of the chain, at the beginning of this process, it's still just one continous stream of "God's will" which is on-going and never flips to off.

Now, here's how I would describe instead of using "will" for the "flipping on and off" you described.

When one zooms in on the process, there's more than just "will", a lot more. I described this in terms of a "brain-storm", in my lengthy description. In this brain-storm, there is a lighting striking, in a cloud, and these strikes bounce back and and forth and back and forth. That. That, I think, is what you're observing in your own mind which is toggling on/off, on/off, on/off, which is producing the form. And. That. You are correct, is not a crown. The pairing of lightning striking and a cloud are two inner intellectual functions, aparatus. They have diifferent names, definitely not a crown, even though they are cerebral. But the names aren't too important. What's more important is what they represent and how they operate.

So, if one considers the metaphor, from the beginning, it's divine speech. What happens if the speaker doesn't want to speak? Does the inner-dialogue cease? No. But the words never descend. The diaphram is never engaged, there is no inhalation of breath. The pallete is not raised or lowered. The jaw? no motion. The tongue is silent, the lips are, in general, closed. But there is something happening internally. The formation of the words is happeing, even when the toggle, "will", is off. That's the model. That's why "will" is considered disconnected. And when the articualtion is happening, the articulation is the will in the form of the articulated syllables, words, sentences, story. The will above which is disconnected is reflected below in a form of articulation. It is, as you said, where all the action is.

OK, so, I'll go ahead and type out the rest of the process in detail.

After the "will" to create, There is a pairing, Ive already mentioned it several times, a lightning striking in a cloud. The lighting strike is a like a focused point, the cloud is a dispersion. They're opposites. The idea is "recalled" from the lexicon as a concentrated point, or a key, that fits into a specific lock. The lightining striking is a nice metaphor, because that's the way an epiphany feels, and also because, no two lighting bolts are the same. That's also true for a key. Ignoring skeleton keys, and master keys, each key has a specific lock or door that it opens. It's the same with words and ideas. The word or idea fits into the overall desired message. It's even better for syllables, because words do have different meanings in different contexts. But each syllable has one and only one application to which it specifically fits. It's another pairing.

Once the lightining strikes, and the word or idea is recalled from "memory", the "lexicon", it gets passed to the "cloud". The cloud surrounds it. Envelopes it. The key is being turned arround and around and around to see what it's made of. What are its peaks and valleys that make it unique, what are its teeth? As the key, or lightining strikes within the cloud, another strike is triggered. That is the cloud, basically, comparing the key to other keys. So, another "key" is recalled from "memory" the "lexicon", basically, for comparisson. When they're compared, it's as if the "key" is being deconstructed. As it is being developed. It's difficult to imagine this simultaneaity. But, the details are being isolated in the cloud. And it si being compared to another idea form the lexicon, where it's details are being isolated in the cloud. This act of isolating the details, is like deconstructing the idea. Eventually ( but actually instantaneously ) what's produced is a developed idea, along with a whole whost of others which are "not it".

This is like I described earlier. The distinctions of the idea on recall are insignificant, because they're coming from an amorphous blob. But then the distinctions are steadily gaining significance. This is because more and a more words are being recalled from the lexicon for comparison in the "cloud". The amorphous blob is becoming less and less infinite. Put simply, the idea is being developed. This development, strangely is occuring by simultaneous building and deconstructing the idea.

While this process is happening, the idea is still completely unformed. This is because it's being deconstructed, and it's hidden in a cloud. It's just an epiphany. Eureka! The individual knows they are having an idea. But it's not congealed yet. Something is "stirring" in the recesses of the mind. In the real world, these repeated lightning strikes are all happening simultaneously. So, an epiphany for us, feels like one singular lightning strike. But, when the process is slowed way-way down, there's many-many-many of these lightning strikes happening in the cloud. The lightning is actually striking and returning, striking and returning, over and and over and over until the exact right idea has been delivered, and then it leaves the cloud, and the most basic general principles of the idea have been formed.

Now. All of this happened lacking the "will to speak". All of it. It's all internal. See what I mean? Will is not involved at all in forming the idea, when the process is examined like this. "will" is different, simple, distant, disconnected from this. Now, if the idea is bad, after the "clouds" are lifted and the idea has taken the most basic of basic forms? Yeah, "will" might flush it. But, that is a human "will". That would not be "God's" will. God... has it all figured out. There's no waste, no mistakes, it's all pre-planned. Just like reciting the pledge of allegiance and the words just flow. Just like singing a song that one knows by heart and has sung it hundreds of times. It just happens.

And that's why the process begins with the simple binary choice, to create or not, to speak or not. If God has it all planned out, "will" would not interrupt it in the same way as it would for a human mind.

OK. After it decends from the cloud, the idea gets refined further and further taking more definite form. First its fed and developed, and details are added to it.. then its gets trimmed back. This happens for a while, bouncing back and forth and more is added, then extra is trimmed away, eventually a balance is achieved. Not too much, not too little, but if there's any doubt, it trends towards having a little extra. Then the idea is put to the test to see if it can stand up to being challenged, it's like a stress test. Then it's left to sit for a bit all alone to see what it does in isolation. Then it's linked up with all the other ideas that are connected to it and they are determined if they work together as a team, finally, the idea has reached the end of the process and the last stage is packaging it in either verbal pronounciation or symbolism.

That's one complete cycle.

1. lightning & cloud
2. adding & trimming & balancing
3. stress-test & isolation-test
4. coherence
5. packaging

This cycle repeats, almost infinitely, in a sort of spiral pattern. The last part is where the the word gets it final form. The creation is complete, and it is released. But it's still connected to the source like a mountain fed stream.

What can be said of this mysterious source?

Absolutely literally infinte, completely alone prior to creation, and, some people at this point attribute a version of omni-benevolence to it, but I don't think that's appropriate that this stage.

The natural physiological processes would they be forms expressed as well?

Yes. Everything is a form, with only one exception. God is absolutley formless, and nothing else is. Even the amorphous blog is a sort of form. But since it's possessed by God, it's a questionable status

The sausage factory is the process of effortless activation of forms?

I wouldn't call it activation. But, yes, the sausage factory is what takes a pre-determined creation which is already planned out and manifests a material world from it. That material world is constructed of forms which are invested, filled with God's own essence in a verry small scale concentrated scale described as a spark commonly called a soul. Everything is body+soul, or form+spark, with only one exception.

 

[The Hammer]

Math, Physics, Chemistry and Biology.

 

[1213]

Are you putting fallible human limits on how God possibly Creates if God exists?

No, I just showing the correct definition for the word create, it is not the same as build, form, or make. I don't think for example that humans truly create anything, humans only build, or construct from what they already have.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

he used energy and the quantum uncertainty principle.
The duration of existence of mankind is just a flicker along the infinite flow of space time.
it neither started with us nor will end with us. we are insignificant to the history of the universe.

 

[osgart]

One of the reasons, I think you've balked at the idea of "will" imagined as a a crown, is that you have advanced into the metaphor further than I described. Hopefully you'll recall in the lengthy description, I mentioned that this happens. It just keeps going. The metaphor, honestly never ends. But, it does repeat. But not in a circle, more like a spiral. But there is a part of it that is looping, but more like a pendulum at the end. Anyways.

For the description you brought that is flipping on and off and that is producing the forms. Just to be clear, that's not "will". Or at least, that's not exactly how I would describe it, but, I think it can be described that way dependiing the point of view. If one zooms way way out, big picture, creation is an ongoing expression of God's will. That's it. But, there is no "off" button. There is no oscillation, no flipping on and off. It is just pure on-going expression of "will". And, there's also "will" which is simultaneously not being expressed that is happening behind the scenes. That's the completely zooomed out bird's eye perspective. Not very exciting. God's will is on-going, if it did flip to the "off" postion, it's "lights out" for everyone and everything except for God.

OK, so hold that in your mind as a necessary condtion: God's will doesn't flip to off. However, one can zoom in on the creative process, IF, it is slowed down and broken out into a sequence. Doing so, there is a chain of "wills" each one refining creation, more and more and more. Each of these "wills" can act as a toggle, making a choice, create or not. And that might look like what you've described. Maybe. And the forms are becoming more and more refined with each consecutive "will" in the chain.

And the chain is being linked together with a version of will which takes on a quality of outer-inner, outer-inner, outer-inner, because it's like links in a chain, with an outer link and an inner link, or a spiral which is curling inward. But this inner-outer dynamic of links is broken and disconnected at the very top of the chain. It stops at the "will" to create. This is why I wrote at the top of this reply, that the articulation, which is the last stage in the creative process, is in fact "The will of God" in the form of "the natural laws" and "forces of nature". The last stage in the creative process is a reflection of the first stage in the creative process. It's another pairing, but it's top-to-bottom pairing instead of binary on/off. I'll highlight this again further down.

So, there is a chain of will after will after will, which is articualting, articulating, articulating, I think it's important to remember that while it is spiraling, and refining, and it IS a version of "will" more and more and more, simultaneously, at the top of the chain, at the beginning of this process, it's still just one continous stream of "God's will" which is on-going and never flips to off.

Now, here's how I would describe instead of using "will" for the "flipping on and off" you described.

When one zooms in on the process, there's more than just "will", a lot more. I described this in terms of a "brain-storm", in my lengthy description. In this brain-storm, there is a lighting striking, in a cloud, and these strikes bounce back and and forth and back and forth. That. That, I think, is what you're observing in your own mind which is toggling on/off, on/off, on/off, which is producing the form. And. That. You are correct, is not a crown. The pairing of lightning striking and a cloud are two inner intellectual functions, aparatus. They have diifferent names, definitely not a crown, even though they are cerebral. But the names aren't too important. What's more important is what they represent and how they operate.

So, if one considers the metaphor, from the beginning, it's divine speech. What happens if the speaker doesn't want to speak? Does the inner-dialogue cease? No. But the words never descend. The diaphram is never engaged, there is no inhalation of breath. The pallete is not raised or lowered. The jaw? no motion. The tongue is silent, the lips are, in general, closed. But there is something happening internally. The formation of the words is happeing, even when the toggle, "will", is off. That's the model. That's why "will" is considered disconnected. And when the articualtion is happening, the articulation is the will in the form of the articulated syllables, words, sentences, story. The will above which is disconnected is reflected below in a form of articulation. It is, as you said, where all the action is.

OK, so, I'll go ahead and type out the rest of the process in detail.

After the "will" to create, There is a pairing, Ive already mentioned it several times, a lightning striking in a cloud. The lighting strike is a like a focused point, the cloud is a dispersion. There opposites. The idea is "recalled" from the lexicon as a concentrated point, or a key, that fits into a specific lock. The lightining striking is a nice metaphor, because that's the way an epiphany feels, and also because, no two lighting bolts are the same. That's also true for a key. Ignoring skeleton keys, and master keys, each key has a specific lock or door that it opens. It's the same with words and ideas. The word or idea fits into the overall desired message. It's even better for syllables, because words do have different meanings in different contexts. But each syllable has one and only one application to which it specifically fits. It's another pairing.

Once the lightining strikes, and the word or idea is recalled from "memory", the "lexicon", it gets passed to the "cloud". The cloud surrounds it. Envelopes it. The key is being turned arround and around and around to see what it's made of. What are its peaks and valleys that make it unique, what are its teeth? As the key, or lightining strikes within the cloud, another strike is triggered. That is the cloud, basically, comparing the key to other keys. So, another "key" is recalled from "memory" the "lexicon", basically, for comparisson. When they're compared, it's as if the "key" is being deconstructed. As it is being developed. It's difficult to imagine this simultaneaity. But, the details are being isolated in the cloud. And it si being compared to another idea form the lexicon, where it's details are being isolated in the cloud. This act of isolating the details, is like deconstructing the idea. Eventually ( but actually instantaneously ) what's produced is a developed idea, along with a whole whost of others which are "not it".

This is like I described earlier. The distinctions of the idea on recall are insignificant, because they're coming from an amorphous blob. But then the distinctions are steadily gaining significance. This is because more and a more words are being recalled from the lexicon for comparison in the "cloud". The amorphous blob is becoming less and less infinite. Put simply, the is being developed. This development, strangley is occuring by simultaneous building and decoonstructing the idea.

While this process is happening, the idea is still completely unformed. This is because it's being deconstructed, and it's hidden in a cloud. It's just an epiphany. Eureka! The individual knows they are having an idea. But it's not congealed yet. Something is "stirring" in the recesses of the mind. In the real world, these repeated lightning strikes are all happening simultaneously. So, an epiphany for us, feels like one singular lightning strike. But, when the process is slowed way-way down, there's many-many-many of these lightning strikes happening in the cloud. The lightning is actually striking and returning, striking and returning, over and and over and over until the exact right idea has been delivered, and then it leaves the cloud, and the most basic general principles of the idea have been formed.

Now. All of this happened lacking the "will to speak". All of it. It's all internal. See what I mean? Will is not involved at all in forming the idea, when the process is examined like this. "will" is different, simple, distant, disconnected from this. Now, if the idea is bad, after the "clouds" are lifted and the idea has taken the most basic of basic forms? Yeah, "will" might flush it. But, that is a human "will". That would not be "God's" will. God... has it all figured out. There's no waste, no mistakes, it's all pre-planned. Just like reciting the pledge of allegiance and the words just flow. Just like singing a song that one knows by heart and has sung it hundreds of times. It just happens.

And that's why the process begins with the simple binary choice, to create or not, to speak or not. If God has it all planned out, "will" would not interrupt it in the same way as it would for a human mind.

OK. After it decends from the cloud, the idea gets refined further and further taking more definite form. First its fed and developed, and details are added to it.. then its gets trimmed back. This happens for a while, bouncing back and forth and more is added, then extra is trimmed away, eventually a balance is achieved. Not too much, not too little, but if there's any doubt, it trends towards having a little extra. Then the idea is put to the test to see if it can stand up to being challenged, it's like a stress test. Then it's left to sit for a bit all alone to see if it what it does in isolation. Then it's linked up with all the other ideas that are connected to it and they are determined if they work together as a team, finally, the idea has reached the end of the process and the last stage is packaging it in either verbal pronounciation or symbolism.

That's one complete cycle.

1. lightning & cloud
2. adding & trimming & balancing
3. stress-test & isolation-test
4. coherence
5. packaging

This cycle repeats, almost infinitely, in a sort of spiral pattern. The last part is where the the word gets it final form. The creation is complete, and it is released. But it's still connected to the source like a mountain fed stream.



Absolutely literally infinte, completely alone prior to creation, and, some people at this point attribute a version of omni-benevolence to it, but I don't think that's appropriate that this stage.



Yes. Everything is a form, with only one exception. God is absolutley formless, and nothing else is. Even the amorphous blog is a sort of form. But since it's possessed by God, it's a questionable status



I wouldn't call it activation. But, yes, the sausage factory is what takes a pre-determined creation which is already planned out and manifests a material world from it. That material world is constructed of forms which are invested, filled with God's own essence in a verry small scale concentrated scale described as a spark commonly called a soul. Everything is body+soul, or form+spark, with only one exception.

Steps 1 through 4 are the preparation stages. Step 5 is the delivery into actuality where the will engages. This all happens instantaneously in continuous flow with simultaneity.

The lightning that strikes and returns is the epiphany or an idea or revelation that goes to the cloud that functions as a comparator, and perhaps makes sure the sequence is balanced by adding, trimming, and balancing. Then each idea undergoes stress and isolation tests til coherence is achieved, and then finally the articulation from will. This all happens instantaneously in a continuous flow of will in simultaneity.

 

[osgart]

Steps 1 through 4 are the preparation stages. Step 5 is the delivery into actuality where the will engages. This all happens instantaneously in continuous flow with simultaneity.

The lightning that strikes and returns is the epiphany or an idea or revelation that goes to the cloud that functions as a comparator, and perhaps makes sure the sequence is balanced by adding, trimming, and balancing. Then each idea undergoes stress and isolation tests til coherence is achieved, and then finally the articulation from will. This all happens instantaneously in a continuous flow of will in simultaneity.

Attn: @dybmh

As the cycle continues and repeats things are continuously becoming more refined.

The will to create is disconnected and distant with steps 1 through 4. Step 5 the will engages.

The many, many repetitions of cycles comes after a pre planned grander scheme?

The cycles operate like a spiral pendulum, not a circle as they are a continuous flow.

Perhaps when I thought of the on/off analogy I was thinking of a more detailed created system actualized in existence. Like the flow of water, and weather cycles; Or perhaps gravity, or the expansion rate of space. I should mind that we are talking in a more general sense.

I was thinking about information in a natural system and got carried away with the binary in
that way.

 

[dybmh]

Steps 1 through 4 are the preparation stages. Step 5 is the delivery into actuality where the will engages. This all happens instantaneously in continuous flow with simultaneity.

The lightning that strikes and returns is the epiphany or an idea or revelation that goes to the cloud that functions as a comparator, and perhaps makes sure the sequence is balanced by adding, trimming, and balancing. Then each idea undergoes stress and isolation tests til coherence is achieved, and then finally the articulation from will. This all happens instantaneously in a continuous flow of will in simultaneity.

Yup, that's basically it. A few notes:

The adding, trimming, balancing, stress, isolation, coherence, and articulation are all happening out of the cloud. What's happening in the cloud is considered intellectual, what happens outside the cloud is considered emotive. Head over heart. The lesson taught here is, the human brain actually has power over the emotions. It can command them, and rule over them. This is not always the case, but it's an important lesson for everyone, I think, that one is not actually "ruled" by their emotions, by their "heart". The heart is very powerful on its own. But it's much better to have a partnership, head-and-heart, with a slight preference for the head, the brain, to be "in charge".

The articulation is a reflection of "will". It is "will in the form of..."

And it's happening in an infinite chain. The cycle repeats over and over... using a storytelling-word... it is "rendering" it. But "rendering" is also a "concentrating" process. There is no waste, there is no "discard". When the idea is "trimmed" those trimmings are still part of the idea, but they're in a negated state which is still connected to the idea. Technically all of those negations, the trimmings, are surrounding it on all sides along with all the other concepts which were broken down and reassimilated in the "cloud". This is a "darkness" that surrounds everything that exists, with one exception. And that is how depression, pessimisim, frustration, domination, wrath, ... all manner of negative "creations" are conceived and how people get trapped in them. We're literally surrounded by negativity, but when the mind is healthy and things are going according to plan, as intended, the mind "skips over" all of that negativity and focuses on the "good stuff" that is happening.

I'll lastly mention, when the model is discussed traditionally it's broken out into 10 steps. But that isn't important for understanding the divine-speech metaphor.

 

[osgart]

How humans create, or build things?
1. they develop an idea and plan
2. they manufacture tools to implement the plan
3. they construct the planned thing.

I think it all starts from words or ideas. And for example a skyscraper, no human could lift it by his own hands. Tools are needed and in this case they are for example cranes. But essentially that all comes from minds ability to move atoms, or smaller particles.

For secular humans all seems to be reduced for body's ability to do things. It is easy to understand that moving hand can cause things. But, nowadays we have also technologies to connect mind to machine and move things with thought in a way that looks more like what God's way. In this case obviously there is certain physical connection that is easy to believe for materialistic person.

For example the movement of arm is based on certain impulses. In human it works, because of the direct connection makes it easy to believe it can work. However, direct connection is not necessary always needed. If a machine can be loaded or message send without direct connection, why would God not be able to do similar things and affect matters remotely without direct connection? To influence in this physical world, one needs to be able to things in the level of atoms, or smaller particles. If I can send message by my mind for example to my arm to do something, why could God's mind not do the same in a more advanced level? I believe humans also could possibly do more with their mind than just move their body.

Maybe all that doesn't really lead to anywhere. Yet, I think words are the only way to truly create, the rest is just building things from what exists.

I believe in a type of information that is semantic in nature, and very fundamental to existence. Perhaps this information is the relationship between God and creation. It could be that this information programs the universe or spawns it into existence, or manipulates what's always been there. If God I wouldn't think God is directly connected to such information. Nevertheless God works in relationship with this information and accesses it by will, or through knowledge and relationship to it. The information is an infinitely vast array of possibilities that's exclusive to the source one might call God. The possibilities are reflected or activated in bit like fashion with countless many states or conditions that can be realized. We have a non local formless source reality, that spans and spawns the infinite and manifests the spacetime energy, matter conditions we live in.

I speculate that there has to be a medium of expression that produces shapes, structures, forms, functions, and even the potential for meanings and purposes.

 

[shunyadragon]

No, I just showing the correct definition for the word create, it is not the same as build, form, or make. I don't think for example that humans truly create anything, humans only build, or construct from what they already have.

Human examples are simply not relevant. Beyond what we can know of the nature of our physical existence fallible humans cannot know what Create is from God's perspective.

Ancient religious beliefs and scripture describe a limited variable of ancient cultural perspective, which does not reflect a more universal perspective we can have today.

For example, the cultural perspective of the Bible defines Creation as a specific beginning from absolute nothing in a limited time frame.

 

[danieldemol]

God Created Natural Laws and processes. as the medium for the existence of our physical existence.

Natural Laws and natural processes are attributes of God like the shadow of the eternal light of God and have eternally existed.

If natural laws and processes have eternally existed why are they in need of creation?

 

[shunyadragon]

If natural laws and processes have eternally existed why are they in need of creation?

The concept of Creation here is different from the traditional Theist view that God 'Created' our physical existence from nothing with a beginning. This perspective is that what may be described as our physical existence is simply a part of all existence that reflects the attributes of God. Natural Laws and processes would reflect God's intent of the nature of our universe and all possible universes, or even all possible multiverses.

 

[shunyadragon]

Different fallible human beliefs put God in their own box. God does not put humans in separate boxes.

 

[1213]

... It could be that this information programs the universe ...

I think that is a good point, and reminds me of the computer simulation theory. It is interesting that some physicists and philosophers are thinking that world could be like a computer program. I think it can be a good analogy for what this world is and how it was created with word, as computer programs are also realities that are created by words.

Are We Living in a Computer Simulation?

High-profile physicists and philosophers gathered to debate whether we are real or virtual—and what it means either way

www.scientificamerican.com

To me the Biblical idea of soul and body looks much like the idea of virtual reality in the Matrix movie.

 

[loverofhumanity]

It's worthy, because, in order to discuss how God is creating, then, God needs a defintion.

If God is literally absolutley infinite, annd there is only God prior to creation, there are no tools or mediums in order to create. Whatever happens would need to be developed by God itself.

The model that is used to describe this process is "divine speech". The manner in which God is creating is similar to a story-teller. And this makes sense if one considers a primitive story-teller, human, in the distant past, conveying the story to others. They would idealize romanticize this intellectual process of story telling, and how, ...

~waxing-romatically~

the whole world was created like an author is telling a story

~end-waxing-romantically~.

Make sense? Should I continue?

Hi my friend. My understanding is that God in Divine Language says ‘Be’ and it ‘Is’. It is beyond the understanding of mortal man. All creation runs on what we understand to be scientific law. God is the Ultimate Scientist so to speak.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

what-tools-or-mediums-does-god-use-to-create-the-universe

As you have seen, no mechanisms have been offered. The replies are basically "he willed it."

If one drops "God" out of all of those answers, no explanatory power is lost, which is why gods play no role in the atheist's metaphysics. It's a cognitive bias to insert one as if one were needed. The universe is what it is because of the laws of nature, which needed no conscious creator according to current scientific knowledge, which is why gods also don't appear anywhere in science. As best we can tell, no conscious agent with a purpose was needed for the universe to begin expanding and to evolve into the world we find today.

 

[joelr]

I know fundamentalists say it is merely spoken into existence. How can anyone arrive at this conclusion?

If you believe in God then surely God would necessarily have methods of creating the universe?

Simply declaring God created the universe invites all kinds of questions as to the definition of God, and then once defined, how does that actually happen?

It sounds to me like God's creation is an appeal to the mysterious and unfathomable. It's very reasonable to question how it's actually done though. I can't imagine a believer forbidding such questioning as if it were unacceptable to do so.

I know in my religion consciousness exists in a medium that is abstract and has no known physics. This underlying medium is not consciousness but has qualitative aspects both living and non living. It's a non physical, non living environment that gives conceptions and ideas a life of their own; from which consciousness is spawned. To me the fact that humans must invent meanings, and purposes to live sheds light on the idea that meaning and purpose is essential, and fundamental to reality.

The medium I believe in is non spatial, and non local. It creates space, time, location, energy, matter, and form. Life merely inhabits this intellectual, and spiritual medium. It is spiritual in the sense that values and virtues, such as love, honesty etc. are expressed in this medium.

Even with all my beliefs I don't see a living authority such as a God could ever spawn such a reality as the one in which we all live. Perhaps God is a hunter. Perhaps finite theism is true. Im not convinced of any of it though.

No evidence to support any God except as a fictive concept in the mind.
Consciousness exists in the brain, I have yet to see evidence for this medium, or reason to suppose it.

The spirituality thing may be another creation of local consciousness.

There are not really "laws", there is nature. We find equations that describe the process of natural things, but we have no evidence these process can happen any other way. In the early big bang it is theorized that all the forces were unified into one force. Symmetry breaking split this into different forces, spacetime and so on. What is beyond or before that we don't know if the question even makes any sense.

I find the idea that all reality starts with a being, an infinite being, to be as absurd as infinite regress. We are superimposing onto reality what we are. Unconscious natural forces can be seen to be happening. This is likely the case in reality. As well as things we cannot even imagine to think about or ask about.

If you bought into a religion you are going to need a deity to be real so in this case looking for arguments that support it is something you would need to do. It seems like forcing the concept to make a belief true rather than look at evidence and go from there.
If science had many different periodical tables, maths, laws of thermodynamics, it would be suspect.

The non-corporeal God is not Biblical until late. That is Graeco-Roman ideas which later came into popularity. Early Yahweh has a body, had a son, fought, had sex, wore clothes and that is not metaphorical language.
Modern theology sanitized the deity of any mythological, earthly or unsettling characteristics.
Yahweh lived in the temple while on Earth and when defeated enemies would carry away his ark (a footstool and mobile shrine). The Philistines carry it away and it destroys their Gods statue. When the Ark moved so did Yahweh.
1 Samuel

 

[dybmh]

Hi my friend. My understanding is that God in Divine Language says ‘Be’ and it ‘Is’. It is beyond the understanding of mortal man. All creation runs on what we understand to be scientific law. God is the Ultimate Scientist so to speak.

Hello Friend, It's nice to hear from you. In Hebrew, the tetragrammaton includes "be" and "is", but also included "was" and "will-be". From this it can be understood that God is unknowable excluding what is expressed in word and deed. Knowing implies intimate knowledge, top-to-bottom, left-to-right, inner-to-outer, and in total. This cannot be known for a god which "was, will-be, and is". But it can be understood that God is all-inclusive and more.

 

[dybmh]

Early Yahweh has a body, had a son, fought, had sex, wore clothes and that is not metaphorical language.

Prove it. Good luck.

 

[Little Dragon]

God Created Natural Laws and processes. as the medium for the existence of our physical existence.

Natural Laws and natural processes are attributes of God like the shadow of the eternal light of God and have eternally existed.

Makes more sense than magic.