What Was Israel's Ancient Belief?

[John D. Brey]

That is quite true. Except of course in the case of converts. The rabbis only accept those who will make excellent Jews, not mediocre Jews.

How do you think they determine that? And does that imply a Jewish mother's womb automatically spews excellent Jews?

I find it odd that you keep referring to circumcision being done by male Jews. While mohel is traditionally a male position, that is changing. A minority of women are mohelim, and it is growing.

I wasn't speaking of circumcision. If a female Gentile is to convert to Judaism, a male Jew must authenticate the conversion. Which is peculiar since that same male Jew who allows a female Gentile to convert to become a Jew, can't (the male Jew can't) make Jews the old-fashioned way, phallic-sex. His semen is incapable of making an ovum Jewish.



John

 

[IndigoChild5559]

How do you think they determine that?

By observing the person during the long conversion process, and through the testing by the Beit Din, which either makes or brakes a conversion.

And does that imply a Jewish mother's womb automatically spews excellent Jews?

Bizarre. No, the former does not at all imply the latter.

If a female Gentile is to convert to Judaism, a male Jew must authenticate the conversion.

You are so behind the times. Women can and do serve in a beit din.

 

[John D. Brey]

By observing the person during the long conversion process, and through the testing by the Beit Din, which either makes or brakes a conversion.

Earlier you pointed out that you can't "unJew" a person. Once they're Jewish no sin or failure can undo the fact that they're a Jew. Which is like the Christian position, "once save always saved," that's so often poo pooed.

The irony I was toying with is the fact that there's a certain meritoriousness to converting to become a Jew, i.e., you have to do certain things, but that once you're in, so to say, now you can do whatever you want and it won't affect your Jewish identity.

In a similar manner the Christians say that once you accept Christ, nothing you do can undo the fact that you're "saved." There seems to be some similar logic going on between becoming a Christian and becoming a Jew.

And does that imply a Jewish mother's womb automatically spews excellent Jews?

Bizarre. No, the former does not at all imply the latter.

What I was getting at is that if a Jewish mother's womb doesn't automatically spew excellent Jews, i.e., sometimes they're born positively monsters, then is it fair for the beit din to only allow excellent specimens of potential Jewishness to convert to Judaism? Why can a Jewish mother's womb sneak real losers into Israel while the beit din screens real losers out of the process?

You are so behind the times. Women can and do serve in a beit din.

In your opinion, is there anything sacred in Judaism? Meaning, is there any orthodox position, e.g., only men make up the beit din, etc., that can never be changed since it's God's original intent? One day could we find that every single "Jewish" idea, ritual, or position, has been relativized out of existence for having been too exclusive in that it's not open to everyone at every time and in every way? In that day will being a Jew be like being trans-gender, i.e., you're Jewish but you've transitioned to a place where you transcend whatever being Jewish is or was without necessarily giving up the title?

If Jews find nothing in Judaism sacred, everything is open to change some day (Jews can keep their foreskin if removing it offends them), then, as Professor El'ad Lapidot of the University of Lille, implied, anti-Semites could in that zeitgeist represent the last people on earth who think Jew represent something real, absolute, unchangable, untranscendable. In a word, in that day, which maybe is already here for all I know, anti-Semites will be the last bastion of belief in an absolute entity labeled by the word "Jew." In a vertiginously ironic sense, anti-Semites will in that strange world become the guardians of Jewishness, of a the idea that there is something appreciated as a real Jew who can really and truly be distinguished from someone who is not Jewish.

WHAT IF ---anti-Semitism has been, after Jewish assimilation, one of the only remaining traces that there ever has been an actual Jewish question, a question posed by Jews as Jews, a Jewish being, namely, that subsists not in the realm of pure substance [in the flesh], but in the realm of questions, of answers, of debates, of pro and also anti, the realm of thought?​

​

Elad Lapidot, Jews out of the Question: A Critique of Anti-Anti-Semitism, p. 285 [bracketed comment mine]​

​

John

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Earlier you pointed out that you can't "unJew" a person. Once they're Jewish no sin or failure can undo the fact that they're a Jew. Which is like the Christian position, "once save always saved," that's so often poo pooed.

They are not comparable things. One is practicing a religion, and the other is being a member of a tribal people. If a Jew decides to stop observaing and become secular, we don't go around saying that they were never really practicing Judaism in the first place.

What I was getting at is that if a Jewish mother's womb doesn't automatically spew excellent Jews, i.e., sometimes they're born positively monsters, then is it fair for the beit din to only allow excellent specimens of potential Jewishness to convert to Judaism? Why can a Jewish mother's womb sneak real losers into Israel while the beit din screens real losers out of the process?

It's really not hard to understand. You are a Jew if either you have a Jewish mom or if you are a convert. There is nothing complicated about that. If you don't like it, if you think picking at it will achieve something, knock yourself out. It won't change reality.

 

[John D. Brey]

“Whoever does not see God everywhere does not see Him anywhere.” – Kotzker Rebbe

Does that include a crucifix?



John

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

As my spiritual mentor, Col. R.B. Thieme Jr., frequently pointed out, ritual without reality is meaningless. Whereas the cross symbolizes the reality that is, for Christians, the death of the son of God, what does circumcision symbolize for Jews? What's the reality that that ritual, brit milah, symbolizes?



John

John D. Brey circumcision could symbolize detachment from the body and willingness to take pain. Second, it could symbolize detachment from sex. Third, it could symbolize that physical cleaning is painful, similarly, spiritual cleaning is also painful. There can be many more explanations. Thank you.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

A wrong notion, land is never distributed that way in any country, right, please?
Abraham was just to settle there, please, right?

Regards

What the giving of land means is open to interpretation. As we know very well, the Israelites believed that the land was physically given to them in the sense of ownership and that is the root of the entire conflict between Jews and Muslims and this conflict has been created by Christians by partitioning Palestine without any authority whatsoever. So, even if one says that Abraham had the right to settle there, I think it is open to question. Why would God give any special treatment to any group at all? If at all, God will give them a higher quality of what they have.

In this case, my understanding is that Abraham lived in the Indus Valley and he was same as Rama and his kingdom was known as Kosla in the Hindu system, which is same as Canaan. So, when God said that I give you this land of Canaan, he was only affirming the fact that Rama already ruled upon the land of Kosla and there is no indication that God wanted the Jews to take over the land of any other person forcibly.

 

[River Sea]

John D. Brey circumcision could symbolize detachment from the body and willingness to take pain. Second, it could symbolize detachment from sex. Third, it could symbolize that physical cleaning is painful, similarly, spiritual cleaning is also painful. There can be many more explanations. Thank you.

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala Are you speaking for a baby who's 8 days old?
Do you know any babies who need to detach from sex?

Another thing I want to add is that I think people should be able to choose when they're adults. I learned that foreskin has its purpose and is healthy to have. However, this thread is about what the ancient belief of Israel was, and the word Israel is Isha. Israel is derived from the Sanskrit word Ishwaralaya, which means Isha or Krishna God. So perhaps learn what Isha was?

Even though I'm not for circumcising babies, I thought the later Jews did this thinking it's a covenant, a promise that God made with Abraham—the area @Bharat Jhunjhunwala and myself were debating them about.

Abraham for all. There is no need for any covenant. Abraham Rama from the Indus Valley

What was this letter H about that was added to Abraham?

I hope I'm making sense

Anyways, there are Jews who do brit Shalom, which means brit peace. Shalom means peace, so the baby is not circumcised and keeps his foreskin.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Another thing I want to add is that I think people should be able to choose when they're adults.

We commonly make decisions for children when they are young, because they don't have the maturity to weigh evidence or understand the consequences for themselves. Children do not get to choose what they eat, such as healthcare or what school they will attend.

What was this letter H about that was added to Abraham?

You will find that it is common in the Bible to change a name when a pivital event happens in that person's life. Jacob's name was changed to Israel after he fought with God via a fight with an angel.

Abram means something like "exalted father," or "high father." At the beginning of his life, he was indeed the head of his household.
Abraham on the other hand means "father of many," or "father of a multitude." He was renamed this after God promised that his descendants would make many nations.

I hope I'm making sense

Anyways, there are Jews who do brit Shalom, which means brit peace. Shalom means peace, so the baby is not circumcised and keeps his foreskin.

The phrase for cirumcision is Brit Milah. Brit means covenant, and Milah means circumcision. Thus, a Jewish male who is not circumcised is not living within the terms of the covenant.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

We commonly make decisions for children when they are young, because they don't have the maturity to weigh evidence or understand the consequences for themselves. Children do not get to choose what they eat, such as healthcare or what school they will attend.

You will find that it is common in the Bible to change a name when a pivital event happens in that person's life. Jacob's name was changed to Israel after he fought with God via a fight with an angel.

Abram means something like "exalted father," or "high father." At the beginning of his life, he was indeed the head of his household.
Abraham on the other hand means "father of many," or "father of a multitude." He was renamed this after God promised that his descendants would make many nations.

The phrase for cirumcision is Brit Milah. Brit means covenant, and Milah means circumcision. Thus, a Jewish male who is not circumcised is not living within the terms of the covenant.

I am willing to accept the covenants. The problem is that some covenants are related to that specific geographical and temporal context. In a situation where there were many sexually transmitted diseases. It may have made sense to have circumcision, but when there are drugs that can take care of those diseases, then there is no necessity for circumcision. So, we have to be able to apply our minds and to assess, whether the covenant needs to be adapted. A theological issue is that once man can adapt the covenant, then it becomes a no man's land, and we can adapt any covenant in any way that suits us. For example, I can make a covenant that it is justified to grab the property of a poor person. The only way to assess these covenants is by inspiration. We have to rely upon the inspiration of the evolved souls and ask them whether the covenants make sense or not.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I'm talking more from a scholarly, critical POV, but religious views welcome.

What was the belief system/s of the ancient Hebrew people? We read a lot in the Tanak about the Divine Council, Sons of God, other Gods, spirits etc. and we read about Joshua asking the people to 'put away the Gods your fathers worshipped' upon crossing the Jordan. I have several books containing relevant information but I want to know what information others have, because I'm finding it very confusing.

- El is a generic noun meaning 'God' as far as I know, but some seem to treat it as a proper name for a specific God?

- YHWH is worshipped by Abraham, but claimed only to make his name known to Mose.

- Who are the Sons of God? Are there other Gods in the Hebrew belief system that aren't worshipped?

- Is God the God of the whole word, or just Israel?

- What's the problem with Ba'al?

Etc.

It is a question that is almost impossible to answer. Even scholars disagree among themselves. Part of the problem is we have nothing in the form of archaeology or records from sources outside the Bible to even indicate what Israel's origins are, and when they came into existence, much less what their original beliefs were.

That said, the most common position is that Israel, descended from the Canaanites, were every bit as polytheistic in the beginning as their neighbors. This actually agrees with the Bible, which tells us that time after time, the Israelites reverted to idolatry. From polytheism, it was an easy move to monalatry, the idea that many gods exist, but THIS god is OUR God. I suspect the Torah was composed during these years.

It wasn't until the Babylonian captivity that the jump to authentic monotheism happened. Ordinarily, when a people was conquered, they said to themselves, "Apparently my enemy's god is more powerful than mine, so now I'm going to worship their god." But that's not what the Jews did in Babylon. For reasons unknown, they came up with an entirely new idea. "My god is not just the god of Israel, but the God of the whole world. We aren't captive here because their deity is more powerful, but because God is using them to bring us back to him." After Babylon, Jews were simply no longer tempted to polytheism ever again.

 

[GoodAttention]

I'm talking more from a scholarly, critical POV, but religious views welcome.

What was the belief system/s of the ancient Hebrew people? We read a lot in the Tanak about the Divine Council, Sons of God, other Gods, spirits etc. and we read about Joshua asking the people to 'put away the Gods your fathers worshipped' upon crossing the Jordan. I have several books containing relevant information but I want to know what information others have, because I'm finding it very confusing.

- El is a generic noun meaning 'God' as far as I know, but some seem to treat it as a proper name for a specific God?

- YHWH is worshipped by Abraham, but claimed only to make his name known to Mose.

- Who are the Sons of God? Are there other Gods in the Hebrew belief system that aren't worshipped?

- Is God the God of the whole word, or just Israel?

- What's the problem with Ba'al?

Etc.

Religious view here regarding El

The Hebrew scriptures do not reference an "ancient Hebrew people" specifically, but they do make a subtle reference to the earliest form of theological practices of the very ancient world, which was astrological in nature, deifying the planets, sun, and moon, the giving of names to these plaent/gods, and creating images of them that resemble the human form to worship.

This is explored in Genesis 1 (translated), where the reference to "and let them be" as lights in the firmament, describing the planets, sun, and moon as "stars", but also as them (gods) that were worshipped by humans at the time. VIewing the stars ancient people were able to seek "signs" and predict seasons, as well as keep time of the "days and years". The astrological concept of "ruling bodies" connecting different planets/gods dominant depending on the season, day, or night, however is "corrected" in Genesis which makes it clear that only the sun will rule the day, and the moon at night, effectively "fixed" by God.

This is what, if there is a generic meaning to "El", refers to, and is a respectful and non-judgemental telling of human theological history on one hand, and exhaulting the supremacy of the true "Creator God" on the other.

The result of which is "El" being considered in both singular and plural, defined and undefined.

 

[paarsurrey]

What Was Israel's Ancient Belief?​

God gave him the land of Canaan.

paarsurrey wrote:
A wrong notion, land is never distributed that way in any country, right, please?
Abraham was just to settle there, please, right?

What the giving of land means is open to interpretation. As we know very well, the Israelites believed that the land was physically given to them in the sense of ownership and that is the root of the entire conflict between Jews and Muslims and this conflict has been created by Christians by partitioning Palestine without any authority whatsoever. So, even if one says that Abraham had the right to settle there, I think it is open to question. Why would God give any special treatment to any group at all? If at all, God will give them a higher quality of what they have.

In this case, my understanding is that Abraham lived in the Indus Valley and he was same as Rama and his kingdom was known as Kosla in the Hindu system, which is same as Canaan. So, when God said that I give you this land of Canaan, he was only affirming the fact that Rama already ruled upon the land of Kosla and there is no indication that God wanted the Jews to take over the land of any other person forcibly.

Truthful Abraham and his off-spring Israelites (as against Judaic people aka Jews who take it physically), one gets to know, that they were just to settle in Canaan; it is for this that when Sarah- a wife of Abraham died he purchased a piece of land for her grave and buried her there :

Genesis chapter 23​

1Sarah lived 127 years; these were the years of the life of Sarah. 2And Sarah died at Kiriath-arba (that is, Hebron) in the land of Canaan, and Abraham went in to mourn for Sarah and to weep for her. 3And Abraham rose up from before his dead and said to the Hittites, 4"I am a sojourner and foreigner among you; give me property among you for a burying place, that I may bury my dead out of my sight." 5The Hittites answered Abraham, 6"Hear us, my lord; you are a prince of God among us. Bury your dead in the choicest of our tombs. None of us will withhold from you his tomb to hinder you from burying your dead." 7Abraham rose and bowed to the Hittites, the people of the land. 8And he said to them, "If you are willing that I should bury my dead out of my sight, hear me and entreat for me Ephron the son of Zohar, 9that he may give me the cave of Machpelah, which he owns; it is at the end of his field. For the full price let him give it to me in your presence as property for a burying place."

https://www.bibleref.com/Genesis/23/Genesis-chapter-23

Right?

Regards

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What Was Israel's Ancient Belief?​

paarsurrey wrote:
A wrong notion, land is never distributed that way in any country, right, please?
Abraham was just to settle there, please, right?

If you accept the stories of Abraham in Genesis, God not only gave Canaan to him, and to his descendants through Isaac and Jacob, but territory even beyond Canaan.

Genesis 15:18

On that day, the Lord formed a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your seed I have given this land, from the river of Egypt until the great river, the Euphrates river.

יחבַּיּ֣וֹם הַה֗וּא כָּרַ֧ת יְהֹוָ֛ה אֶת־אַבְרָ֖ם בְּרִ֣ית לֵאמֹ֑ר לְזַרְעֲךָ֗ נָתַ֨תִּי֙ אֶת־הָאָ֣רֶץ הַזֹּ֔את מִנְּהַ֣ר מִצְרַ֔יִם עַד־הַנָּהָ֥ר הַגָּדֹ֖ל נְהַר־פְּרָֽת:

 

[GoodAttention]

What Was Israel's Ancient Belief?​

paarsurrey wrote:
A wrong notion, land is never distributed that way in any country, right, please?
Abraham was just to settle there, please, right?


Truthful Abraham and his off-spring Israelites (as against Judaic people aka Jews who take it physically), one gets to know, that they were just to settle in Canaan; it is for this that when Sarah- a wife of Abraham died he purchased a piece of land for her grave and buried her there :

Genesis chapter 23​

1Sarah lived 127 years; these were the years of the life of Sarah. 2And Sarah died at Kiriath-arba (that is, Hebron) in the land of Canaan, and Abraham went in to mourn for Sarah and to weep for her. 3And Abraham rose up from before his dead and said to the Hittites, 4"I am a sojourner and foreigner among you; give me property among you for a burying place, that I may bury my dead out of my sight." 5The Hittites answered Abraham, 6"Hear us, my lord; you are a prince of God among us. Bury your dead in the choicest of our tombs. None of us will withhold from you his tomb to hinder you from burying your dead." 7Abraham rose and bowed to the Hittites, the people of the land. 8And he said to them, "If you are willing that I should bury my dead out of my sight, hear me and entreat for me Ephron the son of Zohar, 9that he may give me the cave of Machpelah, which he owns; it is at the end of his field. For the full price let him give it to me in your presence as property for a burying place."

https://www.bibleref.com/Genesis/23/Genesis-chapter-23

Right?

Regards

If Abraham’s descendants are the Jews and Arabs through Isaac and Ismail I would say the promise has been well and truly fulfilled.

 

[River Sea]

What Was Israel's Ancient Belief?​

paarsurrey wrote:
A wrong notion, land is never distributed that way in any country, right, please?
Abraham was just to settle there, please, right?


Truthful Abraham and his off-spring Israelites (as against Judaic people aka Jews who take it physically), one gets to know, that they were just to settle in Canaan; it is for this that when Sarah- a wife of Abraham died he purchased a piece of land for her grave and buried her there :

Genesis chapter 23​

1Sarah lived 127 years; these were the years of the life of Sarah. 2And Sarah died at Kiriath-arba (that is, Hebron) in the land of Canaan, and Abraham went in to mourn for Sarah and to weep for her. 3And Abraham rose up from before his dead and said to the Hittites, 4"I am a sojourner and foreigner among you; give me property among you for a burying place, that I may bury my dead out of my sight." 5The Hittites answered Abraham, 6"Hear us, my lord; you are a prince of God among us. Bury your dead in the choicest of our tombs. None of us will withhold from you his tomb to hinder you from burying your dead." 7Abraham rose and bowed to the Hittites, the people of the land. 8And he said to them, "If you are willing that I should bury my dead out of my sight, hear me and entreat for me Ephron the son of Zohar, 9that he may give me the cave of Machpelah, which he owns; it is at the end of his field. For the full price let him give it to me in your presence as property for a burying place."

https://www.bibleref.com/Genesis/23/Genesis-chapter-23

Right?

Regards

To purchase an area to bury a wife?
What were the burying rituals: Brahman rituals or YHWH rituals?

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala How were the burying rituals done after purchasing land to bury wife?

Can this show the bones then for evidence in the tomb where?

@Tamino explains Ka for people who passed away, did Abraham also do KA too?

cave of Machpelah
Bible, Genesis 50:13 tells that Joseph buried Jacob at the Cave of
Machpelah. Genesis 23:19 says this was located at Hebron

Abel Mizraim, Admah,* Atad, Beer Lahai Roi, Bela, Eder, Elam, Ellasar, Galeed, Gomorrah,* Haran,* Machpelah, Mamre, Pau, Padan Aram,* Peniel, Rehoboth,* River of Egypt,* Shinar,* Siddim, Sin,* Sinai,* Sitnah, Sodom,* Tidal, Ur of the Chaldeans,* Zeboim* and Zin.* Place names marked with asterisk are mentioned in the post-Exodus narrative always alluding to the pre-Exodus events.

Abraham or Rama

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala can you show me this cave in Indus Valley

Rama at Ghuram

Canaan is actually in Ghuram India, so where is this cave that Sarah is bury and did they do a Ka Ritual?

For example, people took Abraham’s wife Sarah to
the palace of the king of Mitsrayim just as king Ravana of
Lanka took Rama’s wife Sita to his palace

The prefix “Ab” refers to father.
Hence, “Abram” means “Father Ram.

The Hindu narrative says that Rama was born in the Ikshwaku
Dynasty, the progenitor of which was King Ikshwaku.

There was a famine in the land of Canaan and Abraham
travelled from Ai to Mitsrayim in the south to live temporarily.
His wife Sarah and nephew Lot accompanied him in this
travel. The Hindu narrative similarly tells that a palace
intrigue led to King Dasaratha exiling Rama from Ayodhya.
Rama then went to the south to spend 14 years in exile. His
wife Sita and brother Lakshmana accompanied him

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala
where is this cave in Indus Valley India compare to this cave where @paarsurrey claims is at

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

A wrong notion, land is never distributed that way in any country, right, please?

It depends upon interpretation. The Bible clearly seems to say that the land was given. Whether it was given for settling or for ownership is a matter of interpretation. If you say that this was given only for settling then you have to show me how the biblical verses are contra ownership. Only then this motion will even be considered by the Jews.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

If you accept the stories of Abraham in Genesis, God not only gave Canaan to him, and to his descendants through Isaac and Jacob, but territory even beyond Canaan.

Genesis 15:18

On that day, the Lord formed a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your seed I have given this land, from the river of Egypt until the great river, the Euphrates river.

יחבַּיּ֣וֹם הַה֗וּא כָּרַ֧ת יְהֹוָ֛ה אֶת־אַבְרָ֖ם בְּרִ֣ית לֵאמֹ֑ר לְזַרְעֲךָ֗ נָתַ֨תִּי֙ אֶת־הָאָ֣רֶץ הַזֹּ֔את מִנְּהַ֣ר מִצְרַ֔יִם עַד־הַנָּהָ֥ר הַגָּדֹ֖ל נְהַר־פְּרָֽת:

The Genesis 15:18, on the land between the river of Egypt and the Euphrates River can be consistent with Canaan, if Canaan was the land between these rivers. I think the bigger problem is whether land was given at all and which rivers are meant. As far as I know, the words in the Bible are River of Mistrayim and Perath River. Whether Perath is Euphrates, is a matter of study and conjecture

 

[paarsurrey]

To purchase an area to bury a wife?
What were the burying rituals: Brahman rituals or YHWH rituals?

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala How were the burying rituals done after purchasing land to bury wife?

Can this show the bones then for evidence in the tomb where?

@Tamino explains Ka for people who passed away, did Abraham also do KA too?

cave of Machpelah
Bible, Genesis 50:13 tells that Joseph buried Jacob at the Cave of
Machpelah. Genesis 23:19 says this was located at Hebron

Abel Mizraim, Admah,* Atad, Beer Lahai Roi, Bela, Eder, Elam, Ellasar, Galeed, Gomorrah,* Haran,* Machpelah, Mamre, Pau, Padan Aram,* Peniel, Rehoboth,* River of Egypt,* Shinar,* Siddim, Sin,* Sinai,* Sitnah, Sodom,* Tidal, Ur of the Chaldeans,* Zeboim* and Zin.* Place names marked with asterisk are mentioned in the post-Exodus narrative always alluding to the pre-Exodus events.

Abraham or Rama

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala can you show me this cave in Indus Valley

Rama at Ghuram

Canaan is actually in Ghuram India, so where is this cave that Sarah is bury and did they do a Ka Ritual?

For example, people took Abraham’s wife Sarah to
the palace of the king of Mitsrayim just as king Ravana of
Lanka took Rama’s wife Sita to his palace

The prefix “Ab” refers to father.
Hence, “Abram” means “Father Ram.

The Hindu narrative says that Rama was born in the Ikshwaku
Dynasty, the progenitor of which was King Ikshwaku.

There was a famine in the land of Canaan and Abraham
travelled from Ai to Mitsrayim in the south to live temporarily.
His wife Sarah and nephew Lot accompanied him in this
travel. The Hindu narrative similarly tells that a palace
intrigue led to King Dasaratha exiling Rama from Ayodhya.
Rama then went to the south to spend 14 years in exile. His
wife Sita and brother Lakshmana accompanied him

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala
where is this cave in Indus Valley India compare to this cave where @paarsurrey claims is at

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala can you show me this cave in Indus Valley

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala
where is this cave in Indus Valley India compare to this cave where @paarsurrey claims is at

"claims is at ", I just mentioned/quoted it from the Bible so it is the claim of the Judaic scripture aka Jewish Bible, right, please?
I understand that Judaic scripture is a mix:
2:76
Do you expect that they will believe you when a party of them hear the word of Allah, then pervert it after they have understood it, and they know the consequences thereof ?

Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search

In Arabic, Chinese, English, French, German, Italian, Spanish and Urdu.

www.alislam.org

Right?

Regards
_______________
2:76
Original Arabic Text from Muhammad's time.

اَفَتَطۡمَعُوۡنَ اَنۡ یُّؤۡمِنُوۡا لَکُمۡ وَقَدۡ کَانَ فَرِیۡقٌ مِّنۡہُمۡ یَسۡمَعُوۡنَ کَلٰمَ اللّٰہِ ثُمَّ یُحَرِّفُوۡنَہٗ مِنۡۢ بَعۡدِ مَا عَقَلُوۡہُ وَہُمۡ یَعۡلَمُوۡنَ ﴿۷۶

 

[River Sea]

there is a temple to Yhwh (or "Yahu"); the community makes regular contributions to this deity in addition to a number of other deities (Anat-Bethel and Ashim-Bethel); and Yhwh/Yahu appears to have a wife (her name is Anat-Yahu).

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala @Jayhawker Soule
I did not know that YHWH has a wife named Anat-Yahu. Did YHWH and Anat-Yahu have any children? Do you know of any?