What was the Leviathan?

[The Fog Horn]

Jason

We are now at page 11, hardly a sign of a lack of willingness to debate. Only tonight I made my largest post about the Leviathan on my blog. I have handled as much of the comments as I can in this thread. I cannot handle the same comments over and over again. Sometimes it's better to let people think for a while.

You repeatedly accuse me of only posting on this forum to try to get hits to my blog. Please tell me the reasons you think I would do that? What is my motive?

The only reason I want people to look at my blog is because it is the only place where all my ideas are collated. Many ideas are original. How else am I to get my ideas known?

I don't give a damn about making my blog a success. Does it look like a profiteering blog? Do I come across as someone who wants to become famous? The use of a psuedenym should really allay your suspicions on that.

I would have thought that any decent person who also had a thirst for the truth and wanted new ideas to be given a fair crack at the whip would not criticise my methods or question my motives. It takes one to know one, as they say, and like-minded people would give me a fair hearing without undue harassment.

Which begs the question, what are your motives for attempting to silence me, hinder my work and slander my character?

 

[The Fog Horn]

You're sacrificing positives of life to run a blog on volcano Gods?

I am 'self sacrificing' in order to bring forward something that could potentially bring about greater unity in the world. As a mother who once lived in a muslim ghetto and who experienced horrendous singling out and harassment, I am doing my best to try to change my daughter's destiny in our ever increasingly religious home.

In addition, I run a busy business single-handedly, run a child single-handedly and run a home single-handedly. Sometimes we have time and energy for a dinner out or a dancing night :rainbow1:

 

[The Fog Horn]

Mythical Monsters ....copied and pasted.



Please see my earlier posts on one 'mythical monster', the Leviathan, which I believe was zoomorphised submarine volcanic activity.

I believe the Leviathan is a very distinct creature of the Bible and different to the usual 'sea monster', which I believe was a Nile crocodile. The Leviathan had many characteristics that do not fit a crocodile or any other animal.

If the ancient Hebrews had a specific name for their underwater volcano monster, other civilisations will also have named their respective volcano monsters.....and maybe the fear and zoomophism of them was something everyone in the volcanic Holy Land had in common. Maybe the stories of them started in one civilisation and were passed down into another.

One sea monster, which is described as mythological when it might in fact be fabled, is the Lernaean Hydra.

Here is a depiction of Lernaean Hydra...

​

and a depiction of the Leviathan....

​

Hydra...


 serpent-like chthonic water beast, with reptilian traits, (as its name evinces) that possessed many heads — the poets mention more heads than the vase-painters could paint, and for each head cut off it grew two more — and poisonous breath so virulent even her tracks were deadly. Upon reaching the swamp near Lake Lerna, where the Hydra dwelt, Heracles covered his mouth and nose with a cloth to protect himself from the poisonous fumes. He fired flaming arrows into the Hydra's lair, the spring of Amymone, a deep cave that it only came out of to terrorize neighboring villages. the stench of the river Anigrus in Elis, making all the fish of the river inedible, was reputed to be due to the Hydra's poison.

​

From this...

It ravaged the country of Lernae near Argos, and dwelt in a swamp near the well of Amymone. However, with the assistance of his faithful servant Iolaus, he burned away the heads of the hydra, and buried the ninth or immortal one under a huge rock.

Statius, Thebaid 2. 375 ff (trans. Mozley) (Roman epic C1st A.D.) :
"The marsh of Lerna and the burnt Hydra’s heat makes warm the depths of those unrighteous waters."​

From this...

The Hydra had the body of a serpent and many heads (the number of heads deviates from five up to one hundred there are many versions but generally nine is accepted as standard), of which one could never be harmed by any weapon. Also the stench from the Hydra's breath was enough to kill man or beast. When it emerged from the swamp it would attack herds of cattle and local villagers, devouring them with its numerous heads. It totally terrorized the vicinity for many years.​

That's enough of Hydra for now but I hope you can see the traits of an underwater gas leaking volcano. The herds were attacked by gas leaks, which is very reminiscent of the first born deaths in Exodus and the deaths in Job. The inability to kill it with weapons also aligns it with the Leviathan.

Next!

CHIMERA

​

From here...

CHIMAERA (Chimaira), a fire-breathing monster, which, according to the Homeric poems, was of divine origin. She was brought up by Amisodarus, king of Caria, and afterwards made great havoc in all the country around and among men. The origin of the notion of this fire-breathing monster must probably be sought for in the volcano of the name of Chimaera near Phaselis, in Lycia (Plin. H. N. ii. 106, v. 27; Mela. i. 15), or in the volcanic valley near the Cragus (Strab. xiv. p. 665, &c.), which is described as the scene of the events connected with the Chimaera.​

Please see the link above for many examples of how ancient people used many animal names to describe just one nameless 'monster'...something they simply didn't recognise. It's a bit like Tourettes.....every expletive getting expelled.

Next!

TYPHON

Spoiler: Large Picture

​

From this...

<b>

TYPHON (TYPHAON, TYPHOEUS), in Greek mythology, youngest son of Gaea and Tartarus. He is described as a grisly monster with a hundred dragons' heads, who was conquered and cast into Tartarus by Zeus. In other accounts, he is confined in the land of the Arimi in Cilicia (Iliad, ii. 783) or under Etna (Aeschylus, P.V. 370) or in other volcanic regions, where he is the cause of eruptions. Typhon is thus the personification of volcanic forces. ​

</b>And, to wrap it up very nicely for tonight as I'm tired......also from the above.....

Amongst his children by Echidna are Cerberus, the Lernaean hydra, and the Chimaera.​

So, there seems to be a whole family of volcano monsters that instead of being described as myths should be described as fables because there is truth behind the tale...or should I say tail? And these are just the Hebrew one and the Greek ones. Apparently there is an Ethiopian one too...another day.

When the Leviathan is hungry, reports R. Dimi in the name of R. Johanan, he sends forth from his mouth a heat so great as to make all the waters of the deep boil, and if he would put his head into Paradise no living creature could endure the odor of him (ib.). His abode is the Mediterranean Sea; and the waters of the Jordan fall into his mouth (Bek. 55b; B. B. l.c.).​

One thing is for sure, these monsters had breath that could kill.

 

[jasonwill2]

Jason

We are now at page 11, hardly a sign of a lack of willingness to debate. Only tonight I made my largest post about the Leviathan on my blog. I have handled as much of the comments as I can in this thread. I cannot handle the same comments over and over again. Sometimes it's better to let people think for a while.

You repeatedly accuse me of only posting on this forum to try to get hits to my blog. Please tell me the reasons you think I would do that? What is my motive?

The only reason I want people to look at my blog is because it is the only place where all my ideas are collated. Many ideas are original. How else am I to get my ideas known?

I don't give a damn about making my blog a success. Does it look like a profiteering blog? Do I come across as someone who wants to become famous? The use of a psuedenym should really allay your suspicions on that.

I would have thought that any decent person who also had a thirst for the truth and wanted new ideas to be given a fair crack at the whip would not criticise my methods or question my motives. It takes one to know one, as they say, and like-minded people would give me a fair hearing without undue harassment.

Which begs the question, what are your motives for attempting to silence me, hinder my work and slander my character?

You havn't given all the information of the supposed volcanos in the area, just that they might be in the red sea. we need specifics or else this is just one interesting hypothesis and nothing more.

 

[The Fog Horn]

You havn't given all the information of the supposed volcanos in the area, just that they might be in the red sea. we need specifics or else this is just one interesting hypothesis and nothing more.

That is ludicrous and you know it.

 

[outhouse]

NO volcanic activity in Israel

No under sea eruptions either.


EPIC FAIL


ancient Israelites had a volcanic deity, why isnt it discussed like anything at all you posted??????????????????????


you know why? EPIC FAIL


you didnt come here to discuss your poor poor work, you came to post your garbage and refuse all real knowledge that has to do with Israelites early deities

 

[jasonwill2]

Ok I looked at all your pics there, but as far as I can tell this is just conjecture and isn't based in any facts about volcanic activity.

Don't direct me to your blog, direct me DIRECTLY to your primary sources, I don't count your un-cited blog as a reliable secondary source.

Hail Satan! Hail Leviathan! (used to use that combination in rituals as Leviathan was more important to my system back then )

 

[The Fog Horn]

NO volcanic activity in Israel

No under sea eruptions either.


EPIC FAIL


ancient Israelites had a volcanic deity, why isnt it discussed like anything at all you posted??????????????????????


you know why? EPIC FAIL


you didnt come here to discuss your poor poor work, you came to post your garbage and refuse all real knowledge that has to do with Israelites early deities

Mount Sinai was not in Israel. The thing that brought the Hebrews out of Egypt was not in Israel. By the time the Hebrews had moved up to Israel, they'd given up on their 'living god' in Midian, Arabia. However, Israel IS volcanic. You might not be able to see the volcanoes, as they are underwater, but they are there and I would love to show you them personally.....and make you inhale some naturally gasses.

rift valley - National Geographic Education

 

[The Fog Horn]

Ok I looked at all your pics there, but as far as I can tell this is just conjecture and isn't based in any facts about volcanic activity.

Don't direct me to your blog, direct me DIRECTLY to your primary sources, I don't count your un-cited blog as a reliable secondary source.

Hail Satan! Hail Leviathan! (used to use that combination in rituals as Leviathan was more important to my system back then )

Shame you will not be looking at my blog as you will therefore lose out on many posts regarding 'hail'. Biblical hail was not always ice hail but sometimes volcanic hail. There is even a place called Hail in Saudi which contains not only many volcanoes with hail-like balls of sulpher strewn around the craters but also pyramids (built to help people walk up to where they thought they could meet with god as god sometimes lands on mountains in bursts of fire) and contains the world's largest collection of rock art with evidence of several civilisations including one with Thamudic language with evidence of a trail of this people coming across the Sinai and into Saudi, settling in Hail, which is a Hebrew name.

Hail information!

 

[jasonwill2]

Shame you will not be looking at my blog as you will therefore lose out on many posts regarding 'hail'. Biblical hail was not always ice hail but sometimes volcanic hail. There is even a place called Hail in Saudi which contains not only many volcanoes with hail-like balls of sulpher strewn around the craters but also pyramids (built to help people walk up to where they thought they could meet with god as god sometimes lands on mountains in bursts of fire) and contains the world's largest collection of rock art with evidence of several civilisations including one with Thamudic language with evidence of a trail of this people coming across the Sinai and into Saudi, settling in Hail, which is a Hebrew name.

Hail information!

No, "hail" as in a greeting or salute, hence I am saluting and welcoming my Lords Ha-Satan and Leviathan as two of the Greater Gods, of which there are seven and two, hidden in nine.

I want your primary sources so that I can draw my own conclusion instead of reading just yours. Why can't you just give us the relevant links in your bibliography on your study of this?

 

[outhouse]

Mount Sinai was not in Israel. The thing that brought the Hebrews out of Egypt was not in Israel. By the time the Hebrews had moved up to Israel, they'd given up on their 'living god' in Midian, Arabia. However, Israel IS volcanic. You might not be able to see the volcanoes, as they are underwater, but they are there and I would love to show you them personally.....and make you inhale some naturally gasses.

rift valley - National Geographic Education

you dont quit with your failing on every single level you attempt.

mnt sinai is unknown


hebrews were never in Egypt ever!



if these volcanos are underwater and cannot be viewed how did the Israelites confuse them for dragons.


quit it, you cant even post the last eruption in the area because ive gone over it with you last year, before you were run out of ever other forum for spamming :sleep:

 

[Riverwolf]

Are you also a child? :sarcastic

I dare say you have since been exposed to a lot of religious gunk and that means you are far less likely to spot glaringly obvious truths. That is scientifically proven.....the longer you've been in it the less likely you are to spot the obvious solutions to puzzles. Religious experts, mullahs or Heredi Jews have a slim chance in hell of having a reality revelation.

Fresh eyes taking a new approach not feeling pressurised to conform to pre-conceived theories and with the goal being to establish the truth no matter what it is......children or intuitive and honest people with very limited exposure to religion and a new lust for knowledge.

Of course, my time is running out fast as soon I will become an old stick-in-the-mud too

24 years old, and I actually spend most of my time playing games, watching internet videos, or studying computer science. I'm still young and learning, myself. In regards to religion, I only partially studied the Bible, but nowadays I focus on Hindu Scriptures, since, well, that's my religion and we have HUNDREDS of Scriptures to go through.

Also, I did not read the Bible in any capacity until my Senior year in high school(and then it was just the gospels, the first two chapters of Genesis, and the Book of Jonah), nor was I really exposed much to Christian teachings, except occasionally. My first real exposure to that religion, until I read the Bible, was Jesus Christ Superstar, a few years earlier.

Yet, when I finally did read the Bible, I did not think volcano when I read about Moses meeting God on Sinai.

You still have not provided any physical evidence to support your speculation. Therefore, I ask you this: why should I take anything you say seriously?

Let me give you an analogy from the industry I'm going to be going into soon: the video/computer games industry.

I have a great idea for a game. I am absolutely sure it would sell very well, because other games similar to it have achieved great cult classic status. Therefore, I pitch my idea to a company along with my reasoning as to why they should invest in my idea. Guess what happens? They turn it down flat. And they are correct in doing so.

Why? Because they also all have great ideas. I'd wager that every single gamer has great ideas. Every single person in the games industry has great ideas. Ideas are dime a dozen. IOW, worthless on their own. If you want a company to accept your idea, you need to show them a prototype. Show that you not only have a great idea, but also that you have the dedication, passion, and resources necessary to make your idea a reality.

What you have right now is just an idea. Nothing more. You've got to provide something physical, or there's no discussion. Give us a specific volcano that has a specific eruption date, or a series of potential volcanoes that could have been Sinai, or the Leviathan.

You also need to demonstrate how El and YHWH, both different Gods and neither of them volcano Gods in Canaanite religion (El is the Supreme God and, I believe, a Solar God, and YHWH is one of his sons, and I believe a Storm God), somehow became associated with the volcano deities of the religion.

Until you do that, I have no reason to take your hypothesis seriously.

 

[outhouse]

Until you do that, I have no reason to take your hypothesis seriously.

I think his biggest failure is ignoring on purpose the Israelites had a volcanic deity and the mythology is so scant due to the volcanic inactivity in the area, and what is known has nothing to do with ANY part of his SPAM

 

[jasonwill2]

I'm pretty sure I've seen a picture of Mount Sinai, however that was while being schooled by Christian circiumlum, so who knows?

maybe wikipedia...

Apparently there is one!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...t_Sinai_Egypt.jpg/800px-Mount_Sinai_Egypt.jpg

 

[outhouse]

Let me give you an analogy from the industry I'm going to be going into soon: the video/computer games industry.

LOl pioneered early security of video games, as well as people on the ground floor in the early 80's

we were the best players who traveled and lived on winnings for a short while, while exploting the lack of security on the quarter boxes lol

played robotron for over 6 hours one day on a quarter and turned the game over

 

[outhouse]

I'm pretty sure I've seen a picture of Mount Sinai, however that was while being schooled by Christian circiumlum, so who knows?

maybe wikipedia...

Apparently there is one!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...t_Sinai_Egypt.jpg/800px-Mount_Sinai_Egypt.jpg

its still a guess if its the biblical mountain

look at eh bottom of that page and click on the biblical sinai. its a good read


the lack of valcanic activity sure messes up OPs SPAM

 

[Riverwolf]

LOl pioneered early security of video games, as well as people on the ground floor in the early 80's

we were the best players who traveled and lived on winnings for a short while, while exploting the lack of security on the quarter boxes lol

played robotron for over 6 hours one day on a quarter and turned the game over

LOL Awesome.

 

[Riverwolf]

I'm pretty sure I've seen a picture of Mount Sinai, however that was while being schooled by Christian circiumlum, so who knows?

maybe wikipedia...

Apparently there is one!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...t_Sinai_Egypt.jpg/800px-Mount_Sinai_Egypt.jpg

That could be the mountain, but the truth is, we don't know for sure where Mt. Sinai is. There are several contenders.

 

[jasonwill2]

So people think leviathan is an Egyptian crocodile? Wouldn't it be more likely that he is the mistaking of many sea critters attributed to be the same thing over time, and exaggerated with each telling? Kind of like a self-growing myth?

I can't see leviathan as a crocodile for some reason... unless these crocodiles are like really huge or something.

 

[1137]

So people think leviathan is an Egyptian crocodile? Wouldn't it be more likely that he is the mistaking of many sea critters attributed to be the same thing over time, and exaggerated with each telling? Kind of like a self-growing myth?

I can't see leviathan as a crocodile for some reason... unless these crocodiles are like really huge or something.

I know many stories of sea serpent monsters stem from misinterpreting giant squids. Of course, I doubt giant squids were coming out of the Red Sea...