What, why and when about "the soul?"

[RestlessSoul]

You seem to have a made a sweeping unevidenced claim for others there, I don't see this at all. I see that human consciousness enables a level of self awareness that causes a duality between what we can imagine, and the fact we are also animals, bound to the natural world. The natural fear of death, or more accurately dying, causes us to imagine all sorts of things in order to suppress that fear. The notion of the soul, like most religious ideas, seems a derivation of this fear.

Even materialism and greed can easily be explained as evolved traits that gave a survival benefit.

Are you afraid of dying, Sheldon?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The question ‘What is real?’ is one which, it seems, cannot be answered conclusively from either philosophy, metaphysics nor physics. The closer humans get to a definition of reality, the more elusive the concept becomes, and the more open ended the question. Add the prefix ‘objective’ to the subject reality, and reason risks being sucked away by whirlpools of uncertainty.

Well, my opinion is that some takes on that are over-reductions and thus what is real depends on what is going on.
As for uncertainty I used to have that as a strong skeptic. Now I have a set of beliefs, which seems to work. But if they are real or not, I don't know.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Are you afraid of dying, Sheldon?

Not answering for Seldon. No, not really. In the end I don't want to die, because then I leave my wife, but I am not afraid for myself.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Well, my opinion is that some takes on that are over-reductions and thus what is real depends on what is going on.
As for uncertainty I used to have that as a strong skeptic. Now I have a set of beliefs, which seems to work. But if they are real or not, I don't know.

I’ve always been interested in questions about the nature of reality, and probably always will be, but perhaps a more meaningful question than “What is real?” may well be “What works?”

We all have to navigate our way through the bewildering dramas of our lives. If you’ve found a way of doing that effectively, then you know something of value; you know that your philosophy works, and this may be more important than how accurately it reflects reality.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There is another thread, started just today, that asks "when does the soul enter the body?" Here's the link: When does the soul enter the body?

But doesn't this bring up a question? "What the heck is a soul, and what was it doing before it decided to enter a body?" Well, it may not for you, but it certainly does for me.

So rather than disturb that other thread, I thought I'd start on on this subject alone:

"What is a soul, why and when does it 'enter the body,' and what was it doing before?"

To me, a "soul" is a poetic representation of a human being. The concept of a human. An abstract / poetic description of consciousness.

There is no need for it to "enter" a body, because it doesn't exist as a seperate entity in reality.

To me it's like asking when the "juicy aspect" of an apple enters the apple.
It's an invalid question because it assumes the "juicy aspect" is a seperate entity from the apple, while it is in reality just another aspect of the apple itself.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

To me, a "soul" is a poetic representation of a human being. The concept of a human. An abstract / poetic description of consciousness.

There is no need for it to "enter" a body, because it doesn't exist as a seperate entity in reality.

To me it's like asking when the "juicy aspect" of an apple enters the apple.
It's an invalid question because it assumes the "juicy aspect" is a seperate entity from the apple, while it is in reality just another aspect of the apple itself.

Well, the ""juicy aspect" in some sense requires a human.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I’ll let others offer their definitions of the soul, but will say it is my conviction we are composed of mind, body and spirit, and if we fail to nourish any of these, we will inevitably be unbalanced, like a two legged stool.

Those of us who live in materialistic cultures see the effects of this imbalance all around us every day; we feed, clothe and exercise our bodies, are offered constant distractions for our minds, yet contentment, harmony with our environment, and genuine compassion for each other, are in seemingly diminishing supply.

I agree that there is such a thing as "mental health" and that people tend to focus more on physical health.
Nonetheless the mental aspect has physical underpinnings and as such physical health can most certainly influence mental health.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I’ve always been interested in questions about the nature of reality, and probably always will be, but perhaps a more meaningful question than “What is real?” may well be “What works?”

We all have to navigate our way through the bewildering dramas of our lives. If you’ve found a way of doing that effectively, then you know something of value; you know that your philosophy works, and this may be more important than how accurately it reflects reality.

Well, we can play objective reality in itself, but I am with Immanuel Kant on that one.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Are you afraid of dying, Sheldon?

For me... yes and no.

No in the sense that I realize that once I'm dead, I won't be caring about it. There won't be an "i" anymore to care or worry about anything. There's an incredibly peaceful notion about that.

On the other hand, when really thinking about "not existing" anymore, some kind of existential crisis does come over me, I must admit. Not that it worries "me". It's more like a sadness of all the things I would be missing out on. Like watching my kids grow up, having grandkids, seeing where humanity would go next, etc.

It's hard to describe and it's a bit self-contradictory also.
On the one hand, I know that "oblivion" is not something to worry about (i've been in that state for 13.7 billion years after all until I was born).
On the other hand, the idea of oblivion is also quite uncomfortable when really thinking about it.

And it's a kind of worry that I deem irrational, but still I can't help it. As if it's deeply rooted into my human instinctive psychology. Which makes sense, in light of instinctive urges of self-preservation and remaining alive.

 

[firedragon]

"What is a soul, why and when does it 'enter the body,' and what was it doing before?"

In some classics, they write "that thought entered my mind". To ask the question "what was that thought doing before entering your mind" is in my opinion nonsensical.

 

[Sheldon]

The question ‘What is real?’ is one which, it seems, cannot be answered conclusively from either philosophy, metaphysics nor physics. The closer humans get to a definition of reality, the more elusive the concept becomes, and the more open ended the question. Add the prefix ‘objective’ to the subject reality, and reason risks being sucked away by whirlpools of uncertainty.

So it's no more than an unevidenced appeal to mystery, yes that's pretty much the way I see it as well.

 

[Sheldon]

The question ‘What is real?’ is one which, it seems, cannot be answered conclusively from either philosophy, metaphysics nor physics. The closer humans get to a definition of reality, the more elusive the concept becomes, and the more open ended the question. Add the prefix ‘objective’ to the subject reality, and reason risks being sucked away by whirlpools of uncertainty.

So it's no more than an unevidenced appeal to mystery, yes that's pretty much the way I see it as well.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I agree that there is such a thing as "mental health" and that people tend to focus more on physical health.
Nonetheless the mental aspect has physical underpinnings and as such physical health can most certainly influence mental health.

Mens sana in corpore sano, sure. Physical exercise has huge proven benefits for psychological well-being

 

[Sheldon]

Are you afraid of dying, Sheldon?

Dying yes, since this can involve pain, but being dead no. My consciousness didn't exist for billions of years, it didn't seem to leave any impression.

Though of course if many psychologists are correct, then I have simply learned to repress my fear. Either way the honest answer is that whilst I am understandably apprehensive about how it happens, I am not (aware of being) afraid to be dead.

 

[Secret Chief]

Sorry, I belong to the no-soul club.

And me. Can't stand reggae either.

 

[Secret Chief]

Dying yes, since this can involve pain, but being dead no. My consciousness didn't exist for billions of years, it didn't seem to leave any impression.

Though of course if many psychologists are correct, then I have simply learned to repress my fear. Either way the honest answer is that whilst I am understandably apprehensive about how it happens, I am not (aware of being) afraid to be dead.

And on the plus side, you won't get depressed every day when you see the news.

 

[RestlessSoul]

So it's no more than an unevidenced appeal to mystery, yes that's pretty much the way I see it as well.

Not sure I understand your response here.
You dismiss the question “What is real?” as an appeal to mystery? Do you think it not worth asking? At some point it becomes inevitable that both philosophers and scientists must ask themselves this question.

“Everything we call real is made of things we cannot call real.”
- Niels Bohr

 

[RestlessSoul]

In some classics, they write "that thought entered my mind". To ask the question "what was that thought doing before entering your mind" is in my opinion nonsensical.

Because you think your thoughts originate with you? But what if they do not? What if they enter your conscious mind from a universal creative intelligence, or Jungian collective unconscious?

 

[RestlessSoul]

And me. Can't stand reggae either.

Just for you then

 

[firedragon]

Because you think your thoughts originate with you? But what if they do not? What if they enter your conscious mind from a universal creative intelligence, or Jungian collective unconscious?

I didnt say "thoughts". I said "thought". Ill give you a dangerous "thought" as an example so that you won't think its some universal creative intelligence or something of the thought.

As an example, "the thought of killing the neighbour entered his mind".

This is no big concept. Just demonstrating an English sentence.

Cheers.