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What, why and when about "the soul?"

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
I didnt say "thoughts". I said "thought". Ill give you a dangerous "thought" as an example so that you won't think its some universal creative intelligence or something of the thought.

As an example, "the thought of killing the neighbour entered his mind".

This is no big concept. Just demonstrating an English sentence.

Cheers.


Okay, you haven't understood my question. But let's try again, using your example. Is it your assumption that the thought of killing his neighbour, originated in the mind of the person who had the thought, or may it perhaps have originated elsewhere?

This is quite a big concept, try not to let that intimidate you.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Just for you then


I don't particularly love reggae specifically, but curiously enough some of my favorite songs are reggae songs :D

My all time favorite is, I think, not that well known


There might be some nostalgia at play though... First time I heard that song was on quite a special, and extraordinary beautiful, warm night at sunset. I was quite high as well. LOL
Every time I hear this, it takes me right back to that glorious moment.



(sorry for the off topic :p )
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
There is another thread, started just today, that asks "when does the soul enter the body?" Here's the link: When does the soul enter the body?

But doesn't this bring up a question? "What the heck is a soul, and what was it doing before it decided to enter a body?" Well, it may not for you, but it certainly does for me.

So rather than disturb that other thread, I thought I'd start on on this subject alone:

"What is a soul, why and when does it 'enter the body,' and what was it doing before?"
In my theology this is the explanation of what the soul is:


"Soul. The soul of man is an experiential acquirement. As a mortal creature chooses to “do the will of the Father in heaven,” so the indwelling spirit becomes the father of a new reality in human experience. The mortal and material mind is the mother of this same emerging reality. The substance of this new reality is neither material nor spiritual. This is the emerging and immortal soul which is destined to survive mortal death and begin the Paradise ascension."
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
I rather Doubt the existence of individual souls.
I would suggest that what we call the soul is simply the Link between all living beings and God.
It is of the being of God not us. When God establishes a living link with us, we perceive it as our soul. It is the only way for us to communicate with God.

When we die that link is broken. We perceive that as our soul returning to God.
It would seem to have no individual perception of self.

Self awareness ends with brain death.

If our memories or ego continue to exist at all, it can only be as subsumed within the being of God.
 

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
"What is a soul, why and when does it 'enter the body,' and what was it doing before?"

I don't recognize a soul, and such a thing doesn't "enter the body," in my view.

It is my being that is eternal, and a life in a body is experienced by that being.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
Thats what the sentence means.


Okay, so that’s what you meant by the sentence. But once you’ve written it, it’s meaning becomes mutable. As perhaps it always was, even when it was forming in your mind; for the nature of meaning is seldom if ever certain.

But I digress. If the thought of killing his neighbour entered his mind, where did it enter from? And if it originated from him, then from what part of him? For if we have agreed it entered his mind, it cannot therefore have originated there.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
If the thought of killing his neighbour entered his mind, where did it enter from?

Haha. Thats not what the sentence means. It does not mean it entered "from somewhere". My God. Is that so difficult to understand? This is authors write English novels or classics. If I find a particular book I will share it with you. But this is general English. Nothing philosophical about it. Its just like saying "he thought of killing his neighbour", worded differently. Thats all.

RS. Thats the end of that conversation.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
Haha. Thats not what the sentence means. It does not mean it entered "from somewhere". My God. Is that so difficult to understand? This is authors write English novels or classics. If I find a particular book I will share it with you. But this is general English. Nothing philosophical about it. Its just like saying "he thought of killing his neighbour", worded differently. Thats all.

RS. Thats the end of that conversation.


Change the words, change the meaning.

But it’s okay, I understand. You don’t want to think about the origin, or nature, of thought.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
There is another thread, started just today, that asks "when does the soul enter the body?" Here's the link: When does the soul enter the body?

But doesn't this bring up a question? "What the heck is a soul, and what was it doing before it decided to enter a body?" Well, it may not for you, but it certainly does for me.

So rather than disturb that other thread, I thought I'd start on on this subject alone:

"What is a soul, why and when does it 'enter the body,' and what was it doing before?"
Soul in the Bible is taken from the Hebrew word nephesh (נֶפֶשׁ), and the Greek word psykheʹ (ψυχή)
The word can mean any of the following considering the context.
soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion

Once an animal or human has life, it has a soul - that is, it has life within, and it is a soul - that is, it is a person, in the case of humans... which also has emotions.

If one does not have soul they are not alive, since soul is the life of the person, or the person. Genesis 2:7
As regard emotions, this will vary in proportion. Does a baby have passion, appetite, desire? I believe so.
 

MikeF

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
IMO

I’ve always been interested in questions about the nature of reality, and probably always will be, but perhaps a more meaningful question than “What is real?” may well be “What works?”

We all have to navigate our way through the bewildering dramas of our lives. If you’ve found a way of doing that effectively, then you know something of value; you know that your philosophy works, and this may be more important than how accurately it reflects reality.

You seem to be advocating the formation of personal artificial constructs of reality over investigating and understanding actual reality. How do you prioritize and reconcile between the conflicting artificial constructs of reality of individuals?

Political choices and decisions are being informed by these artificial constructs of reality that affect all members of society. I would much rather have these decisions informed by our best understanding of actual reality, and that those choices adapt and change as our understanding grows.
 

MikeF

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
IMO

If the thought of killing his neighbour entered his mind, where did it enter from? And if it originated from him, then from what part of him? For if we have agreed it entered his mind, it cannot therefore have originated there.

You do understand that the phrase "entered his mind" is a figure of speech, yes? It is not a literal or clinical description of what is occurring.

Any thoughts of this hypothetical individual are produced by the central nervous system of that individual.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
IMO



You seem to be advocating the formation of personal artificial constructs of reality over investigating and understanding actual reality. How do you prioritize and reconcile between the conflicting artificial constructs of reality of individuals?

Political choices and decisions are being informed by these artificial constructs of reality that affect all members of society. I would much rather have these decisions informed by our best understanding of actual reality, and that those choices adapt and change as our understanding grows.


Firstly, I'm not advocating anything at all. As regards political choices, they will continue to be informed by whichever interest groups have the most money, power and influence on the decision makers. I'd like to stay out of that, for now anyway.

I simply make the observation that any efforts to investigate and understand 'actual reality', require first of all that we define our terms, and secondly that we acknowledge that there is simply no way to observe external reality without interacting with it, and thereby affecting it. Quantum contextuality rules out the possibility of the neutral observer perceiving reality as it would occur, were she not present observing it. Meanwhile, Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle informs us that we cannot obtain exact simultaneous values about multiple qualities of an entity or object. There are limits to how much information we can hold about the state of an entity in a dynamic universe, and there is no fixed, privileged point from which to observe that entity.

You will presumably be aware that there is currently no consensus among quantum physicists, regarding the ontological implications or interpretation of quantum theory. The development of ever more sophisticated instruments for gathering and reviewing evidence empirically, does not appear to be bringing such a consensus any nearer, nor does it solve the problem of the impact both the instruments and their operators have, on the phenomena being measured. The scientists, their equipment, the laboratory, and the subject of the experiment are in an entangled state, and any division between these sub-systems of the whole, is essentially arbitrary.

So physics leaves us, philosophically, with a conundrum. Either we accept that science is not able to provide us with a complete, coherent explanation of the natural world, a conclusion which would appear to vindicate Niels Bohr, but would be most unsatisfactory to Einstein and Stephen Hawking; or we can continue our search for objective reality, whilst recognising the awkward and bewildering truth that our perceptions of the world will always be framed by our particular perspective within it. We are in the world looking out, while holding an image or model of the world in our minds. What we talk about when we talk about reality, is an abstraction, our mind's interpretation of the symbols and patterns it deducts from the information brought to it by our senses. In that sense, all constructs of reality are artificial, being functions of the mind.
 
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RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
IMO



You do understand that the phrase "entered his mind" is a figure of speech, yes? It is not a literal or clinical description of what is occurring.

Any thoughts of this hypothetical individual are produced by the central nervous system of that individual.


I can't answer that question directly, as I haven't read the hypothetical novel referred to, nor am I familiar with the work of the hypothetical author. I can answer the question with a question though, and the question is, are you sure about that?
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
To me, a "soul" is a poetic representation of a human being. The concept of a human. An abstract / poetic description of consciousness.

There is no need for it to "enter" a body, because it doesn't exist as a seperate entity in reality.

To me it's like asking when the "juicy aspect" of an apple enters the apple.
It's an invalid question because it assumes the "juicy aspect" is a seperate entity from the apple, while it is in reality just another aspect of the apple itself.
Yet, doesn't juiciness itself transcend the apple, just as wetness transcends the existence of the wave? Maybe thinking of soul should be understood as something greater than a localized occurrence or some object?

Maybe the problem is literalism of the mind that can't think beyond concrete literal objects, like imagining God as a supernatural creature, rather than as the transcendent essence of all reality, or the 'wetness' of every wave?
 
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Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
The soul is the non-material aspect of the human being. Intellect, emotions, preferences, aversions, family ties, trauma, talents, and flaws are all aspects of the soul.

From my POV the soul enters the body at birth and matures throughout life.

Before birth it is basking in Godliness in heaven. Each soul is unique and eternal.
then what is a spirit of a person?

because a soul in it's original meaning was part of a person and not separate from it. when separate from a person, it's a spirit.

soul | Search Online Etymology Dictionary

Meaning "spirit of a deceased person" is attested in Old English from 971. As a synonym for "person, individual, human being" (as in every living soul) it dates from early 14c. Soul-searching (n.) is attested from 1871, from the phrase used as a present-participle adjective (1610s). Distinguishing soul from spirit is a matter best left to theologians.
 
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