What will happen when I die?

[Devil's_Chaplain]

What will happen to me when I die?

Ok, this really bugs me. I think I'm a pretty good person. I mean I don't do nasty things or anything, I love my family and always try to not hurt people. I respect all other animals and try to never deliberately harm them blah blah blah. The thing is, according to books like the Bible and Koran I will go to hell or wherever and burn eternally. I don't think this is fair, please help me with this. I have friends who love me and care for me, but the same people believe that when I die I will go to hell forever. It really upsets me that my friends could follow a religion (they just so happen to be Christians) that says good Atheists go to hell and bad Christians go to heaven (if they repent or whatever).

I'm obviously no expert on the subject, I'm just looking for some insight. I put this in the discussion area because I don't want it to seem like I'm having a go or looking for trouble. I just want to understand why I deserve to suffer forever.

Thanks

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Not all religions believe that people who aren't members of their tradition go to hell. Some don't even believe that they go to a seperate afterlife and a few paths aren't even sure if there is an afterlife. There are even some Christians that don't believe in a literal hell.

 

[Devil's_Chaplain]

I'm really hoping to discuss this with the people who do believe that I am going to hell. Thanks for the input though, you are very sweet.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I have friends who love me and care for me, but the same people believe that when I die I will go to hell forever. It really upsets me that my friends could follow a religion (they just so happen to be Christians) that says good Atheists go to hell and bad Christians go to heaven (if they repent or whatever).

I don't think that this is plausible.

As Soctrates said, "God will not abandon a good man." Or politically correctly, "God will not abandon a good persyn."

Footnotes:
Portrait of a Madman
Christian responsibility to beg for mercy
Process Theology of the Cross
Angellous vs Angellous: Nature of Hell
God's Judgement

 

[Devil's_Chaplain]

I don't care what Socrates said. I care what the Bible says about me, and the people who believe it. The Bible is very clear about what happens to non-believers, is it not? I've only really read it a few times to be honest, but that's what this is all about, enlighten me.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I don't care what Socrates said.

I suppose a man can abandon a good man.

 

[PureX]

What will happen to me when I die?

Ok, this really bugs me. I think I'm a pretty good person. I mean I don't do nasty things or anything, I love my family and always try to not hurt people. I respect all other animals and try to never deliberately harm them blah blah blah. The thing is, according to books like the Bible and Koran I will go to hell or wherever and burn eternally. I don't think this is fair, please help me with this. I have friends who love me and care for me, but the same people believe that when I die I will go to hell forever. It really upsets me that my friends could follow a religion (they just so happen to be Christians) that says good Atheists go to hell and bad Christians go to heaven (if they repent or whatever).

I'm obviously no expert on the subject, I'm just looking for some insight. I put this in the discussion area because I don't want it to seem like I'm having a go or looking for trouble. I just want to understand why I deserve to suffer forever.

Thanks

The questions you're asking are certainly fair questions. I am not a religious Christian so I can't answer for them, but I can share how I deal with such religious bias, myself.

I don't believe any of us knows what will happen when we die. So should I come across someone who claims to know, I already understand that this person is not being completely honest with him/herself, or with me, about the issue. For whatever reason, they have fallen for the illusion that they have some "inside information" about death that they don't really have. So anything they tell me after my recognizing this fact, I take as something they need to believe and express rather than something that concerns me, personally. That way I don't need to take it as a slight against me, as it isn't really about me, even though they may be claiming it is. It's really about them, and about what they need to believe is true, to alleviate their own fears, or insecurities, or whatever.

None of us is perfect. We all fall for illusions about ourselves, and about life, and about God. We're all confused, and frightened a bit by death. So I don't take it to heart when someone tells me I'm going to hell, or whatever, because I know they don't really know this is so, and I also know they only believe this because they're afraid of death, themselves. So if they're a friend, I just put my arm around them and ask them to pray for me, then. Usually, just my acknowledging their feelings and not arguing with them is good enough for them to drop the subject.

 

[Devil's_Chaplain]

Answer my question. Please tell me what will happen to me when I die, I have committed the one unforgivable sin.

And for the record, I do respect Socrates. I just don't see how his opinion matters in this particular case. I want to know about Christianity, Islam and Judaism. I probably wasn't clear on that.

(This was addressed to A_E)

 

[Devil's_Chaplain]

The questions you're asking are certainly fair questions. I am not a religious Christian so I can't answer for them, but I can share how I deal with such religious bias, myself.

I don't believe any of us knows what will happen when we die. So should I come across someone who claims to know, I already understand that this person is not being completely honest with him/herself, or with me, about the issue. For whatever reason, they have fallen for the illusion that they have some "inside information" about death that they don't really have. So anything they tell me after my recognizing this fact, I take as something they need to believe and express rather than something that concerns me, personally. That way I don't need to take it as a slight against me, as it isn't really about me, even though they may be claiming it is. It's really about them, and about what they need to believe is true, to alleviate their own fears, or insecurities, or whatever.

None of us is perfect. We all fall for illusions about ourselves, and about life, and about God. We're all confused, and frightened a bit by death. So I don't take it to heart when someone tells me I'm going to hell, or whatever, because I know they don't really know this is so, and I also know they only believe this because they're afraid of death, themselves. So if they're a friend, I just put my arm around them and ask them to pray for me, then. Usually, just my acknowledging their feelings and not arguing with them is good enough for them to drop the subject.

That's certainly good advise. I do try and just be nice with them, but I do get offended. Don't get me wrong, I am not afraid to die, I am not worried about what will happen to me. I just don't understand how people can believe this to be fair.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

*waves hand* Just as a general reminder, all, because this is the discussion section, please remember that 'debate language' is better reserved for that area.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I don't care what Socrates said. I care what the Bible says about me, and the people who believe it. The Bible is very clear about what happens to non-believers, is it not? I've only really read it a few times to be honest, but that's what this is all about, enlighten me.

Biblical interpreters and therefore various denomenations of Protestants and ancient Churches disagree about what the Bible says about the fate of unbelievers.

I've argued that God accepts who God wants to into a favorable or unfavorable afterlife based on how a person has lived their lives. I argue this from my interpretation of Romans 9.

God does what God wants
Romans 9.15-26 from the English Standard Version

15For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" 21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honored use and another for dishonorable use? 22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-- 24even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25As indeed he says in Hosea,

"Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,'
and her who was not beloved I will call 'beloved.'"
26"And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,'
there they will be called 'sons of the living God.'"

God judges everyone according to what they have done on earth:

John 5:29
and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Romans 2:16 - Judgment for everyone
on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
Romans 2:15-17 (in Context) Romans 2

1 Corinthians 11:32 - No favoritism for Christians
But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.
1 Corinthians 11:31-33 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 11 (Whole Chapter)

 

[angellous_evangellous]

And for the record, I do respect Socrates. I just don't see how his opinion matters in this particular case.

Much in the New Testament and in Christian theology is dependent on Greco-Roman philosophy, of which Socrates is father.

Socrates and Jesus on Lust
Xenophon's Description of Socrates
Aristotle and Romans 7
Commited Same-Sex Relationships in Plato
Cicero and the New Testament
The Church and Sex
The inside of the cup
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29860

 

[Devil's_Chaplain]

This is interesting stuff. I like your approach, you are obviously a very nice person. The one thing bothering me is why certain passages say one thing and other say another. What of the passages that say all people who deny the holy spirit will never be forgiven? Are we to pick and choose the ones that fit into our own idea of what is right?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

This is interesting stuff. I like your approach, you are obviously a very nice person. The one thing bothering me is why certain passages say one thing and other say another. What of the passages that say all people who deny the holy spirit will never be forgiven? Are we to pick and choose the ones that fit into our own idea of what is right?

There is only one passage about the unforgivable sin, and it is quite impossible for an atheist to commit.

22Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. 23And all the people were amazed, and said, "Can this be the Son of David?" 24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons."

25Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. 26And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. 28But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

29Or how can someone enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. 30Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

As an atheist, you obviously have a position that is not favorable to Jesus being God or the Son of God. In this respect, you speak against Jesus as being the Christ, and you will be forgiven if God chooses to forgive you - same as me - I simply hope for this forgiveness. But if you claim that the spirit by which Jesus acted in his ministry is the spirit of Satan (which in my opinion, it would be impossible to do as an atheist), then according to the text, you are lost.

 

[Devil's_Chaplain]

Well thanks for that, it's nice to know all is not lost. Tell me, what would happen to me if I wasn't an atheist and was say, a muslim? Would it be any different then?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

This is interesting stuff. I like your approach, you are obviously a very nice person. The one thing bothering me is why certain passages say one thing and other say another. What of the passages that say all people who deny the holy spirit will never be forgiven? Are we to pick and choose the ones that fit into our own idea of what is right?

It's the art of interpretation.

The Bible is a collection of sayings about God from different groups of people that face different circumstances. We have to consider many interpretative variables when we approach a text and ask a variety of questions - for example:

Is the text referring to all unbelievers or a specific group? 2 Thessalonians chapter 1 condemns a specific group to eternal torment - a group that is persecuting the church - and is a part of apocalyptic tradition. In other words, it is a common form of condemning a political group like a king and his administration for committing injustice. The text makes no judgment on any unbelievers outside of this group. That's not a good place to build doctrine...

5This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering-- 6since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels 8in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from[b] the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, 10when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. 11To this end we always pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his calling and may fulfill every resolve for good and every work of faith by his power, 12so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Well thanks for that, it's nice to know all is not lost. Tell me, what would happen to me if I wasn't an atheist and was say, a muslim? Would it be any different then?

In my opinion, no.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

What will happen to me when I die?

Ok, this really bugs me. I think I'm a pretty good person. I mean I don't do nasty things or anything, I love my family and always try to not hurt people. I respect all other animals and try to never deliberately harm them blah blah blah. The thing is, according to books like the Bible and Koran I will go to hell or wherever and burn eternally. I don't think this is fair, please help me with this. I have friends who love me and care for me, but the same people believe that when I die I will go to hell forever. It really upsets me that my friends could follow a religion (they just so happen to be Christians) that says good Atheists go to hell and bad Christians go to heaven (if they repent or whatever).

I'm obviously no expert on the subject, I'm just looking for some insight. I put this in the discussion area because I don't want it to seem like I'm having a go or looking for trouble. I just want to understand why I deserve to suffer forever.

Thanks

That's an interesting viewpoint offered by AE yet I fail to see how it discounts so many other scriptures that say that the only way to the Father is through His son, Jesus Christ. A foundation scripture that I use comes from John 3:16-18. It states that the sole criteria for salvation is belief on the Son of God.

The Bible is clear that man is in no way able to be , eternally, in the presense of God in his present state, ie. tainted by sin (how much sin is irrelevant). In order to be present with God, in eternity, man needs to be changed back to the form of sinlessness that was present in the beginning. The only way to achieve that sinlessness is through the redeeming work of Christ and being refahioned (born again) and fitted with a new body that is fit to be in the presense of the eternal God.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

That's an interesting viewpoint offered by AE yet I fail to see how it discounts so many other scriptures that say that the only way to the Father is through His son, Jesus Christ. A foundation scripture that I use comes from John 3:16-18. It states that the sole criteria for salvation is belief on the Son of God.

The Bible is clear that man is in no way able to be , eternally, in the presense of God in his present state, ie. tainted by sin (how much sin is irrelevant). In order to be present with God, in eternity, man needs to be changed back to the form of sinlessness that was present in the beginning. The only way to achieve that sinlessness is through the redeeming work of Christ and being refahioned (born again) and fitted with a new body that is fit to be in the presense of the eternal God.

I don't deny that, but I specifically affirm in several of the threads that I listed that God affects judgment - whether 'positive' or 'negative' through Jesus Christ.

The role of "belief" is what I challenge. Romans 9, for example (as quoted above), is explicitly against any role of "belief" on the part of the person "saved".

 

[Devil's_Chaplain]

I see. So no matter how 'good' a person is, there is no way into heaven other than through Christ? Thanks for your honesty, it does seem very unfair though. How exactly is one 'born again'?